Balance relies a bit to much on how good people are at obfuscating alts, but it looks decent to me assuming at least some level of success.
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:52 pm
by RH9
A secret alt game seems fun. If it is run after my Limited Access ends, I might want to try it. Wait, by real identity, do you mean the actual player who is playing? Like the Puppet Master knows who all the Townies (and Ministers) are.
Oh. I just looked at it. Does everybody imitate other people, in secret alt games? I glimpsed through it and I thought that Not_Mafia played in it.
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:04 am
by Kerset
Every secret alt games needs a rule, which prevents people from clamming their main account.
Here the idea was that, if scum guess your real identity then they steal your alt account. Dwlee impersonated N_M to conceal themselves from it.
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:08 am
by Jingle
Secret alt games are not universally designed, but more often than not there's a drawback to getting correctly identified.
PEdit: Yeah, that. I've seen NKs that only work on identified players and factions outright winning if they can guess all the identities as well. And some just force replace anyone who main slips.
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:42 am
by RH9
Oh, that's why he was acting like Not_Mafia. To be fair, I feel like if everybody imitated Not_Mafia, then the scum would realise that. (I think that realistically, they can just play the opposite of their usual playstyle. For example, a normally quiet and passive player can play aggressively and post a lot. Wait, has there been anybody who uses a different playstyle when they are in a secret alt game?)
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:08 pm
by T3
chromatic ascension
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:57 am
by Jingle
Kind of meme-y mountainous setup I intend to run in the nearish future. Would appreciate feedback.
An interesting setup to EV but probably still too boring for actual play:
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:29 am
by Cook
think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:35 am
by TemporalLich
In post 1211, Cook wrote:think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.
In post 1211, Cook wrote:think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.
yeah that kinda breaks it into 7p Cop
oh well I'm not good at making EV setups
still an interesting thought, splitting a PR between two people
...it'll be worth something.
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:41 am
by TemporalLich
In post 1213, Cook wrote:still an interesting thought, splitting a PR between two people
I like the idea of dual backups for a negative feedback element though.
Or consider the idea of three Backup Neighbors. Once one dies, the other two get a PT together.
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:54 am
by Something_Smart
In post 1211, Cook wrote:think you break this by forcing one deputy to out themselves and eliminate them, thus just having a town cop in a slightly disadvantageous ratio.
It's not quite as simple as that. How do you determine which deputy reveals themself?
(I'm also not even sure that 2 goons/4 VT/1 cop is even good for town. I honestly think 2 goons/5 VT/2 named townies is probably better EV.)
I think the setup is interesting. The deputies have an incentive to get NK'd, or honestly even to get executed (a D1 that provides a lot of info and happens to end on a deputy execution is honestly not that bad, especially if it leaves scum with little clue who the other deputy is), but the low end of the setup is not that low because you get two named townies even if that doesn't happen.
It's not an inadvertent mountainous. I don't think a Backup Cop would become a cop when another Backup Cop died in a normal game, but this is an open setup, you can set whatever rules you want.
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:02 am
by TemporalLich
The intent in Two Deputies is to have actual "dual backups" where if one Deputy dies the other becomes a Cop. If backups could not backup backups, you'd effectively have a Two Named Townie setup which counts as Inadvertent Mountainous.
If the strategy in Two Deputies isn't always to have one of the deputies claim then eliminate the claimed deputy, it would be quite an interesting setup I feel.
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:58 am
by Jingle
In post 1216, Something_Smart wrote:(I'm also not even sure that 2 goons/4 VT/1 cop is even good for town. I honestly think 2 goons/5 VT/2 named townies is probably better EV.)
Technically it’s neither of those. It’s slightly more power than either case. In one you have an 8 person with a Nightstart (slightly more likely to get an investigate) and in the other it’s got the odds of a cop becoming apparent.
Regardless to get EV you’d run the calculations on both models and pick the higher one, but I’m not convinced it’s a setup where EV is the right approach to balance.
In post 1216, Something_Smart wrote:(I'm also not even sure that 2 goons/4 VT/1 cop is even good for town. I honestly think 2 goons/5 VT/2 named townies is probably better EV.)
Technically it’s neither of those. It’s slightly more power than either case. In one you have an 8 person with a Nightstart (slightly more likely to get an investigate) and in the other it’s got the odds of a cop becoming apparent.
Regardless to get EV you’d run the calculations on both models and pick the higher one, but I’m not convinced it’s a setup where EV is the right approach to balance.
good point
EV would definitely miss something actually, it might require playtesting maybe
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:16 am
by Jingle
More that the nuance on making a system for the latter involves a lot of branching paths which both complicates EV determination and makes it less reliable because of swing.
I’d look for double named townie runs and slightly course correct for additional townsidedness. Gut says playable but leans slightly town overall. Two clears on D2 of a micro is not insignificant.
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:22 am
by Something_Smart
In post 1218, Jingle wrote:In one you have an 8 person with a Nightstart (slightly more likely to get an investigate)
Good point, I forgot about that, it does actually make a significant difference. But, there's also the chance that the cop dies N1. And I don't think there's a claim strategy that doesn't risk giving some information away to scum.
Actually, I think there might be one if you can determine a period of time, even if it's brief, where everyone is online simultaneously. But it's probably not realistic to assume that kind of thing would be coordinated in a game.
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 5:41 am
by Jingle
You could go with a “next post is a deputy claim style thing”, which could itself come from a deputy, but that seems tedious at best.
Honestly, regardless of EV I think it would just be more fun to play it as a 2 named town with an emergent cop setup and rely on day play.
Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2022 5:57 am
by ProfessorDrapion
This setup is a different take on Mafia:
Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 3:22 am
by Irrelephant11
EV is 35% chance of town win (28/81 random scenarios). Perhaps a touch scumsided but seems interesting.