Mini 1262 - Game Over (Over!)

[xRECKONERx]

1) I'm also known for defending my buddies to the goddamn death. Tell me, what excellent meta do you have on me? Which of my games have you taken the time to sit down and read in order to KNOW that I'm supposedly so renown for bussing? And yes, I made a comment to you about D1 bussing before, in which I said if I'm going to bus D1, I bus hard and I don't let off the gas for anything. ...Unlike in this situation, where I got cold feet on triangle, went over to SleepyKrew, then ended up switching back to triangle.

No, the comment that you made to me was that you would sometimes bus hard D1, and sometimes you let your scumbuddy know, and sometimes you don't and it comes out of nowhere. Also, if you'd really like to know (I haven't actually read the game) but just in the 2 minutes of looking through your previous games, I did come across this game where you did bus, get off the wagon, bus, get off the wagon, and bus more to the lynch of your scumbuddy D1.

This is complete and utter bullshit. I remember my exact wording, I remember we were sitting on the porch doing something (I don't remember who I was talking to about bussing, maybe Gammagooey), and I said if I bussed D1, I bussed hard and didn't let up. I didn't say sometimes I let my buddies know, I didn't say sometimes it comes out of nowhere.

And it's pretty easy to go back and find a game which conveniently fits your meta example. If you're going to use meta, you have to use

a broad meta

, and I can provide you with more games where I didn't bus D1 as scum or even hardcore defended my buddies the entire game than ones where I bussed hard D1.

2) WHEEEE THROWING OUT UNSUBSTANTIATED THEORIES WITH NO GROUNDING IN EVIDENCE OR LOGIC!!! Here, I can do it too:
"You probably told your buddies in the QT that you were actually an alien lifeform hiding on earth but then the government came and captured you which is why you've been lurking so much"
Isn't this fun? Though if I were to TRY to address your post... why would FoN knowing I was bussing cause him to not take a firm stance?

Love the distraction method you used here. I come at you with my reasoning in a calm form, and you make a mockery of it. Not cool. But thanks.

Because there's literally no way to defend against "WOOO UNFOUNDED QT SPECULATION" besides showing the ridiculousness of such tactics.

3) You do realize the mere fact you're questioning all of this makes your third point invalid, right? Being on a scumlynch doesn't clear anyone worth shit because people end up doing this ridiculous shit where it's like NO NO, IT'S A BUS, THE MOST ELABORATE BUS IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT WAGON WAS ACTUALLY TOWN DRIVEN AND ORGANIC, FUCKING BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUS

wut?

You said that a bus from FoN on me would result in him getting towncred, but you've just proven yourself that voting for a scumbag does not in any way net awesome town cred, otherwise I'd be going WHEEEEEE and floating through the game with zero suspicion since I was on a scumwagon D1.

And just so no one gets confused

But tell me

Brock

Grimm why are you suddenly like "lol nvm ab Soda's slot due to Seacore". You went from posting a fucking wall of a case on him to going OH NVM I AGREE WITH WHAT HE'S SAYING

You know what "fishiness" happened? You did. I have actually been reading the game, and putting my thoughts together. I hate playing games with you because your defense typically turns out to be like your response to my point number two, and it gets me nowhere. But that's aside from the matter. I was reading up on the game and I couldn't put triangle and soda together in my head that would make sense. You, however, did make sense.

No, I've responded to your points in a logical manner, and used ridiculous logic to defend against one ridiculous point. And please explain to me how SODA AND TRIANGLE is harder to believe than ME TRIANGLE AND FON.

Speaking of Soda, it seems really odd to me that you were waiting for my game with him to end for you to be able to use that game/meta against him (you kept asking me for my opinion on him as thought you were going to sheep me if I found him scummy) yet you said that he wasn't a lynch target for you because he was scum counterwagon.

What the fuck? I'm NOT using the meta against him. I've mentioned the meta SEVERAL times in this game to prove WHY HE'S PROBABLY TOWN, not WHY HE'S SCUM. He was lurky/derpy there, he's lurky/derpy here. I've explained this. Where are you getting that I'm using Trouble in Paradise to call him scum?

Reck, I do have a question for you though. I never really could understand what your case was on Triangle. I wrote up mine, but before all that, what was yours?

Oh hey, another thing I've explained over and over and even quoted. But I guess I can state it AGAIN -- triangle was declaring town/scumreads flippantly with no real substance or reasoning behind it. She called you scum for thinking Pine was obvtown, but completely ignored the fact that I called Furc obvscum. Declaring reads so willy-nilly is a scumtell.

[Grimmjow]

No, I've responded to your points in a logical manner, and used ridiculous logic to defend against one ridiculous point. And please explain to me how SODA AND TRIANGLE is harder to believe than ME TRIANGLE AND FON.

Soda doesn't comment on Triangle much, and when he does, it doesn't make much sense. Soda's very... to use your phrasing... derp. His first comment about Triangle was that his vote on me was terrible. The second was some weird logic that made him vote triangle, and stick to that vote until lynch. Which was a long fucking time. Too long for a bus that he didn't push hard, imo. However, your push on Triangle does fit my idea of a bus. Not just laying down a vote, but PUSHING that lynch.

What the fuck? I'm NOT using the meta against him. I've mentioned the meta SEVERAL times in this game to prove WHY HE'S PROBABLY TOWN, not WHY HE'S SCUM. He was lurky/derpy there, he's lurky/derpy here. I've explained this. Where are you getting that I'm using Trouble in Paradise to call him scum?

I may have misinterpreted your intentions, then. It seemed to me that you were trying to get me to condemn him rather than clear him. ::shrug:: I can see his scumminess, but I feel you are scum.

Reck, I do have a question for you though. I never really could understand what your case was on Triangle. I wrote up mine, but before all that, what was yours?

Oh hey, another thing I've explained over and over and even quoted. But I guess I can state it AGAIN -- triangle was declaring town/scumreads flippantly with no real substance or reasoning behind it. She called you scum for thinking Pine was obvtown, but completely ignored the fact that I called Furc obvscum. Declaring reads so willy-nilly is a scumtell.[/quote]
So your whole case was based off ONE scumtell? And that made you pursue her with such force that you ignored others' scuminess? Reading back through your ISO, you call a LOT of people scummy, but you hold your vote on Triangle for (what I can see) one scumtell, and then the rest of your "case" to me seems to be nothing more than "If you can't tell what my case is, you haven't been reading." It doesn't sit right with me.

[xRECKONERx]

No, I've responded to your points in a logical manner, and used ridiculous logic to defend against one ridiculous point. And please explain to me how SODA AND TRIANGLE is harder to believe than ME TRIANGLE AND FON.

Soda doesn't comment on Triangle much, and when he does, it doesn't make much sense. Soda's very... to use your phrasing... derp. His first comment about Triangle was that his vote on me was terrible. The second was some weird logic that made him vote triangle, and stick to that vote until lynch. Which was a long fucking time. Too long for a bus that he didn't push hard, imo. However, your push on Triangle does fit my idea of a bus. Not just laying down a vote, but PUSHING that lynch.

your "idea" of a bus needs to be retooled then because a bus can be as simple as throwing down a vote and sticking to it

What the fuck? I'm NOT using the meta against him. I've mentioned the meta SEVERAL times in this game to prove WHY HE'S PROBABLY TOWN, not WHY HE'S SCUM. He was lurky/derpy there, he's lurky/derpy here. I've explained this. Where are you getting that I'm using Trouble in Paradise to call him scum?

I may have misinterpreted your intentions, then. It seemed to me that you were trying to get me to condemn him rather than clear him. ::shrug:: I can see his scumminess, but I feel you are scum.

there's no "may have", you did. the proof is in the print

Reck, I do have a question for you though. I never really could understand what your case was on Triangle. I wrote up mine, but before all that, what was yours?

Oh hey, another thing I've explained over and over and even quoted. But I guess I can state it AGAIN -- triangle was declaring town/scumreads flippantly with no real substance or reasoning behind it. She called you scum for thinking Pine was obvtown, but completely ignored the fact that I called Furc obvscum. Declaring reads so willy-nilly is a scumtell.

So your whole case was based off ONE scumtell? And that made you pursue her with such force that you ignored others' scuminess? Reading back through your ISO, you call a LOT of people scummy, but you hold your vote on Triangle for (what I can see) one scumtell, and then the rest of your "case" to me seems to be nothing more than "If you can't tell what my case is, you haven't been reading." It doesn't sit right with me.[/quote]
I do call a lot of people scummy because this game has been a lurkfest and literally everybody in this game has come across as scummy at one point or another

Yes, my D1 case was based off of a pretty strong scumtell committed post-RVS

it's D1

nothing stronger presented itself, and the only reason I faltered from that scumtell was due to the VT claim. I didn't know whether or not a newb would be smart enough to claim VT vs a PR, I had words about it with either Pine or FoN, and I ended up voting her

Triangle did several other scummy things, but I still felt the scumtell from her post about you was the strongest point against her

[xRECKONERx]

ISO triangle and tell me what you see in her interactions with me versus her interactions with Soda

and honestly tell me with a straight face you see me/triangle as more likely than Soda/triangle

Hell, even if you said me/triangle/Soda I might be able to buy it but you're specifically saying it's me/FoN/triangle and I cannot wrap my mind around what kind of moonlogic is used to reach that conclusion. It's a stretch at best, not to mention the fact the entirety of your case against me is "I THINK IT WAS A BUS", and that's a terrible case for this late in the game

I'm heading home for Thanksgiving now, and my laptop is busted. I'll try to hop on my parents' computer if I have some time but in general I'm probably V/LA until Monday

[Grimmjow]

but you're specifically saying it's me/FoN/triangle and I cannot wrap my mind around what kind of moonlogic is used to reach that conclusion.

I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty close to it. FoN I'm not sure that they're scum, but I can see this too.

wut?

[Grimmjow]

The comment I was making here was that I wasn't 100% on you/Triangle, not you/Triangle/FoN.

[Grimmjow]

Also: Thanksgiving things.

V/LA until Friday-ish, maybe even Monday, depending on what happens.

[Furcolow]

I like to avoid bussing with a scumbuddy to answer to the next night

[xRECKONERx]

What?

Furc:

respond to my goddamn questions at the end of D3.

[Furcolow]

refresh me

[xRECKONERx]

Look at it yourself, you lazy fuck

[Seacore]

I'd like to hear why Yates thinks this is a four scum game? is it because he has three scum buddies? Because a) that's worrying, and b) that's the only way you'd think there are so many scum.

Also, if there is a miller, there is a cop (right?) If there's a cop there's somebody out there with three investigations under their belt. Isn't now a perfect time to get those investigations? Get some good PoE going?
If there isn't a cop, we lynch Furc and we've got only one more scum to find and more time to do it.

[Force of Nature]

There can't be 4 scum. That would not make any kind of sense.

[Seacore]

It would be crazy scum sided, I agree. But if Yates is actively scum hunting then why would he think there is?

I think there's more reasons for him being scum and saying what he said then there is for him being town and saying it.

[Force of Nature]

I think the last two are in Reck or Grimm & Furc or Thor.
Yates bothers me endlessly though. I won't rule him out yet.
But yeah, I would like to do some PoEing.
Reck + Furc is my best bet right now, but the margin isn't huge.

[Thor665]

It's Reck, look at what Furc's been up to. He's derping along in his usual way and was at least mildly pro-town with the claim.
Reck meanwhile did his little bussing action, sure, but today he's all over Furc and going for a Catch-22 paranoia case on him, and it took someone as sexy and amazing as me to get him to admit that the super obvious Thorscum case never existed. He's coasting on that bus and is pretty clearly advancing a scum agenda. You should vote him because it will make me happy.

[Thor665]

It would be crazy scum sided, I agree. But if Yates is actively scum hunting then why would he think there is?

I think there's more reasons for him being scum and saying what he said then there is for him being town and saying it.

You have read some of his other cases though, yeah?
He legitimately called my slot scummy for making an RVS vote without reasons.
Just think on that one for a little bit.

Keep on pressing him and work out your own situation, but you will need a pretty home run case to make me not want Reck dead today.

[xRECKONERx]

Am I at L-1 yet

[Seacore]

I'd vote Reck, and may still, but I've only ever played one game with him and he was town. And his play feels similar, ie frustrated and frantic. Does he get that way as scum?

Anyway, I was just reading through D3 and I came across something interesting.

So you think I'm systematically killing off people who think I'm town???
Also Nacho Neighborized me last night, which would mean I knew he wasn't a viable PR anymore.

It's the language here that has me interested. All the use of "I".
It feels like Force is running with the assumption that a single scum made N2's kill decision.

Both thor's slot and mine were pretty absent leading up to night, with mine appearing right after night was over and thor's appearing several pages later stating they forgot about the game.

Theory: FoS is scum with one of us (not me), the slot flaked and left FoS alone in the QT to make the decisions.

Ugh, I dunno, it's been ages since I replaced into a game and I'm going back and seeing all these connections.

I'm going to keep reading and throw a vote down in the next hour.

[Seacore]

vote Furc

I will not remove this vote until somebody claims cop or gives me a damn good reason for why Furc is something other than scum?

Bounces around from wagon to wagon, doesn't contribute and yet manages to avoid being on the scum wagon of D1 but be on the two town lynches D2 and D3?

[Thor665]

@Reck - you're at L-2, the sky isn't falling yet.

@Seacore - is a cop claim at a stage the cop apparently doesn't desire to claim really worth a Furc push on the day prior to lylo? I'm not sure I really see the win logic there. Other than being derp it's hard to put a case to Furc and he's always derp. Even if he is scum he's just going to be one of two, why not hunt for his partner as opposed to trying to force a cop claim? Am I missing something?

[Thor665]

Heck, day prior to MYLO even. That play is as derptastic as anything Furc has done.

[xRECKONERx]

K, I still don't see any semblance of a real case or anything presented on me

so either someone alert me when there's an actual case on me or I'm at L-1 and someone has the intent to hammer, thx

[Regfan]

Vote Count 4.1:

xRECKONERx (2): Thor665, Grimmjow.
Thor665 (1): Yates.
Furcolow (1): Seacore.

Not Voting (3):

Force of Nature, xRECKONERx, Furcolow.

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. The deadline is in (expired on 2011-12-06 21:50:00)

[Seacore]

Thor, can you please explain to me how Reck, somebody who was on the D1 lynch wagon and has done little else since is anywhere near as scummy as Furc, someone who was on the D1 counter wagon and has done little else since?

I mean, my theory on Reck came from his relationship with FoN, which doesn't seem to be part of your theory at all. What makes Reck scum alone?

And yes, I think the cop should claim, we need the info, both on Furc and on any clears he has.
Lets look at this from the scum POV. If Furc isn't scum, they don't worry about killing him, there's two of them, so that leaves 4 town to choose from to kill this cop, 3 if we mislynch today. That is high odds of losing that information going into mylo/lylo. In fact, if we mislynch today the odds of the cop targetting scum is 2/5, only slightly better than the odds of that cop dying.

I'd rather get the info now. It gives us two days of informed lynching.

But then there's the fact that no cop has claimed.
I don't think there is one. Doc+Neighbourizer v Rolecop seems pretty balanced to me.
No cop, means I don't think there's a miller, meaning I think Furc flaked, came back, got worried and panicked with this kind of gambit claim.

Also, I've seen Furc play as town. Not pro-town mind you, but town. Look at Stars Aligned 3. He had his own cases he was pushing regardless of what else was going on, almost vendettas. He wasn't bouncing all over the place waiting for a wagon to attach himself to. But he is here, and that bouncing has lead to a failed counter wagon and two town lynches.