Mini 423: Calvin & Hobbes - GAME OVER!
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- Mr Stoofer
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Mr Stoofer
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He always thought that his life would be ended by .38 calibre bullet to the back of his head in a dark alleyway... He never expected to be lynched by his fellow alter egos! But
LoudmouthLee, Tracer Bullet
, is dead!Night 5: Please send choices within 36 hours of this post.
Last edited by Mr Stoofer on Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Obviously, I'm heavily leaning towards voting Glork now. VitaminR's contribution to EmpTyger wagon strikes me as essentially impossible for a scum to have done, not when the Skruffs wagon was a viable alternative at that time.
I'm only avoiding voting for the moment to see reactions. I'll probably be voting Glork in about 20 hours, along with a "why you should vote Glork instead of Thok case". (I'll feel silly about that post if VitR is scum, but as I said, I find that impossible.)
I'm only avoiding voting for the moment to see reactions. I'll probably be voting Glork in about 20 hours, along with a "why you should vote Glork instead of Thok case". (I'll feel silly about that post if VitR is scum, but as I said, I find that impossible.)
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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There is very little doubt in my mind that I will be voting Thok today.
VitR, I ask that you not to rush to a decision until this weekend, when I can actually make my case as to why I am town and Thok is scum -- I will have limited access until then (as I already indicated either on Tuesday evening (my time) in V/LA).
VitR, I ask that you not to rush to a decision until this weekend, when I can actually make my case as to why I am town and Thok is scum -- I will have limited access until then (as I already indicated either on Tuesday evening (my time) in V/LA).
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Right, well that makes the situation rather clearcut. I was kinda hoping I wouldn't find myself in this position.
I can honestly see both of you as scum, but I'm leaning heavily towards Glork.
This is mostly based on what I indicated yesterday, but also the fact that his shift towards Thok seemed to coincide with my shift down on Thok's suspicion list. I also still want an answer as to why you held off analysing me.
Having said that, there are a couple of things I'd like Thok to address.
I want to know why my place on the Emp wagon has led you to this conclusion now and why it didn't have that significance earlier.
I can honestly see both of you as scum, but I'm leaning heavily towards Glork.
This is mostly based on what I indicated yesterday, but also the fact that his shift towards Thok seemed to coincide with my shift down on Thok's suspicion list. I also still want an answer as to why you held off analysing me.
Having said that, there are a couple of things I'd like Thok to address.
I got the same feeling about some of the questions Thok had been asking me throughout day 3, actually. Having said that, I found some of them incredibly useful, because they helped me think about my gut feelings and specify what I was basing some of my opinions on.Glork wrote:Thok's question to VitR in 1179 sounds like he's trying to get a feeling for how he should be setting up tomorrow. Pooky has repeatedly expressed the belief that Glork and/or LmL are scum. VitR had thought Glork was town for a long time, but was beginning to shift away from that sentiment.
This works when you pay attention to the fact that you indicated I had dropped on your suspicion list, but at the time you posted that it wasn't clear at all you'd choose to go after Glork over me. Keeping that in mind, why did you think Glork would have to go after you?Thok wrote:VitR, I'll admit that my question in 1184 was somewhat leading. I felt that GlorkScum would have had problems winning an endgame in which he had to go head to head with either Pooky or me. (If I was in an endgame with Glork, he can't really plausibly vote me given what he's said earlier in the thread, and he's going to lose any head to head with other people still alive). Which meant I felt as scum that he would consider attacking me today, as I'm a somewhat easier target today that in endgame.
I agree with this. I thought it was a bit of a weak point.Glork wrote:And actually, yeah, most of this supplemental stuff that Thok suggested -- especially the meta-attacks on LmL's inactivity -- is crap that I definitely wouldn't buy, especially given Thok's behavior during D1 of this game (and his behavior during the first ~40 pages of Lights Out 2).
This post feels a bit off. You seem to stress your certainty a bit too much.Thok wrote:Obviously, I'm heavily leaning towards voting Glork now. VitaminR's contribution to EmpTyger wagon strikes me as essentially impossible for a scum to have done, not when the Skruffs wagon was a viable alternative at that time.
I'm only avoiding voting for the moment to see reactions. I'll probably be voting Glork in about 20 hours, along with a "why you should vote Glork instead of Thok case". (I'll feel silly about that post if VitR is scum, but as I said, I find that impossible.)
I want to know why my place on the Emp wagon has led you to this conclusion now and why it didn't have that significance earlier.
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Also, what was your feeling about it when I mentioned it in 1117 (after you asked me to give reasons as to why you should think me pro-town)?VitaminR wrote:I want to know why my place on the Emp wagon has led you to this conclusion now and why it didn't have that significance earlier.
You briefly mention that Glork was still in your top two yesterday, but mostly you did not focus on him until after LML's lynch. Was he still on your radar? How did you feel about his LML vote?
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Fair enough. Hearing stuff makes me comfortable with a
First, a general comment about my play yesterday. While I was the first to bring up the mountainous idea, it should be clear from my posts that I've never been more then say 75% confident about the mountainous idea and that I've always been a bit worried that I've misread the setup. (Examples include my pondering of an SV-Glork scum group at the deadline of day 3 and my worry about being quick-lynched yesterday). You'll notice that there was a time yesterday (after your post 1149) where from my point of view any viable 2 person scum group had to include LML [any nonLML 2 person scum group either included me or had chances to win already]. In some sense, I was in the situation where LML was yesterday, where I was fairly sure that any lone scum was in a group of two people (Glork/LML), and any two person scum group involved LML.
The possibility of a 2 person scum group froze my vote to some extent. I partially decided to take the safe LML lynch and determine for certain the set up of the game, rather than try and move my vote around.
That said, the reason I asked you that question in 1179 was that we were approaching deadline and you really hadn't implied who you were interested in voting. In fact, with Pooky's absence from the thread at the time, it wasn't inconceivable to me that we could have missed getting a lynch altogether (which would have been disasterous; in that situation scum goes for Glork/LML/Thok endgame), and if you wanted either a Glork wagon or to push the Thok wagon more you needed to do that then.
In my post 1052 I specifically said I wasn't fond of a VitR lynch yesterday, and in post 1058 I said the Glork was still in my top two. Glork would have known that I found him scummier than you then. It was only later in the day that I raised some suspicions of you. And even then, in post 1132 I gave a clear protown point to you
As for why I felt Glork needed to go for me yesterday, it was a matter of counting lynches. Glork needed 2 mislynches to win yesterday. Pooky was never going to be one of those lynches. You couldn't have been lynched yesterday (Glork couldn't have gotten Pooky or LML to go after you). So Glork either can try to lynch LML yesterday or me yesterday. But if he tries to lynch LML then he either reaches an endgame with Pooky (which he would have clearly lost IMHO), or he reaches this endgame. But as things stand, Glork has a problem with this endgame. Either he has to vote me and make a massive flip-flop on the whole "Mountainous implies Thok-town" that he had been repeating forever, or he had to go after you which at the start of the day was an endgame I had indicated he was likely to lose.
Obviously, the flaw in my thinking was that I underestimated Glork's ability to make a massive flip-flop on me.
I'll say more about this when Glork does the inevitable "Thok's play is much like LO2"; let's just say I've done some thought about that comparison, and there are fairly strong differences between my play in the two games. (For a sneak peek at my arguments, let me note the fact that I'm the post leader in this game, and that I have significantly many more posts in this game than in LO2).
I will say that I wanted to hear you and Glork's reaction to that post ot get a final piece of information before I cast my vote. Also, see below.
------------------
So some actual new arguements on why Glork is scum.
1. Fun with foobardog (who Glork replaced). Part 1
Hey look, VitR caught foobardog in post 44. (Yes, this isn't a strong argument. It's worth noting).
2. Fun with foobardog. Part 2.
Both foobardog (posts 20 and 28) and Skruffs speculate on flavor early. Skruffs got wagonned for it, and foobardog never was. Why is that? Well, EmpTyger pushes the issue immediately in posts 23 and 45, which means that everybody remembers Skruffs doing the speculation and foobardog isn't really discussed. (Again this isn't very strong, but it's worth noting).
3. Fun with foobardog. Part 3.
EmpTyger doesn't really mention foobardog much day 1. He never specifically directed a question towards foobardog. He mentions there being an early foobar wagon lost in the crash, and mentions tht he noticed something in a foobar post that would let him vote for him, but says since it disappeared he can't push that and then proceeds to bash PJ's brains in multiple posts. Given that EmpTyger tends to go after everybody he can this is another weak antiGlork thing.
4. Same as argument 3, but replace EmpTyger with Glork
EmpTyger doesn't mention me or Glork much before he gets lynched. The one notable exception is that EmpTyger supports Glork when Glork goes on his antilurker vandetta on me day 1.
5. EmpTyger's end of lynch comments about possibilities for my roles.
I've discussed this before. My comments about how it's likely he was trying to use that to confuse us about the setup of the game gains more credence now.
vote Glork
.First, a general comment about my play yesterday. While I was the first to bring up the mountainous idea, it should be clear from my posts that I've never been more then say 75% confident about the mountainous idea and that I've always been a bit worried that I've misread the setup. (Examples include my pondering of an SV-Glork scum group at the deadline of day 3 and my worry about being quick-lynched yesterday). You'll notice that there was a time yesterday (after your post 1149) where from my point of view any viable 2 person scum group had to include LML [any nonLML 2 person scum group either included me or had chances to win already]. In some sense, I was in the situation where LML was yesterday, where I was fairly sure that any lone scum was in a group of two people (Glork/LML), and any two person scum group involved LML.
The possibility of a 2 person scum group froze my vote to some extent. I partially decided to take the safe LML lynch and determine for certain the set up of the game, rather than try and move my vote around.
As I mentioned yesterday, if I was scum I didn't need to set up tomorrow, as I could always choose the me-Glork-Pooky endgame, as that clearly favors me. Heck, I'd probably had knowledge from your conversation that I would have been able to win Glork-VitR at that time just by the comments you already made. Glork's argument is suggesting I was trying to get information I didn't need.VitaminR wrote:I got the same feeling about some of the questions Thok had been asking me throughout day 3, actually. Having said that, I found some of them incredibly useful, because they helped me think about my gut feelings and specify what I was basing some of my opinions on.Glork wrote:Thok's question to VitR in 1179 sounds like he's trying to get a feeling for how he should be setting up tomorrow. Pooky has repeatedly expressed the belief that Glork and/or LmL are scum. VitR had thought Glork was town for a long time, but was beginning to shift away from that sentiment.
That said, the reason I asked you that question in 1179 was that we were approaching deadline and you really hadn't implied who you were interested in voting. In fact, with Pooky's absence from the thread at the time, it wasn't inconceivable to me that we could have missed getting a lynch altogether (which would have been disasterous; in that situation scum goes for Glork/LML/Thok endgame), and if you wanted either a Glork wagon or to push the Thok wagon more you needed to do that then.
If you look at my comments late day 3, early day 4, it was clear that I felt Glork was scummier than you by a decent margin. In my list of suspicions during deadline day 3, I had you at a clearly lower position then Glork.This works when you pay attention to the fact that you indicated I had dropped on your suspicion list, but at the time you posted that it wasn't clear at all you'd choose to go after Glork over me. Keeping that in mind, why did you think Glork would have to go after you?Thok wrote:VitR, I'll admit that my question in 1184 was somewhat leading. I felt that GlorkScum would have had problems winning an endgame in which he had to go head to head with either Pooky or me. (If I was in an endgame with Glork, he can't really plausibly vote me given what he's said earlier in the thread, and he's going to lose any head to head with other people still alive). Which meant I felt as scum that he would consider attacking me today, as I'm a somewhat easier target today that in endgame.
In my post 1052 I specifically said I wasn't fond of a VitR lynch yesterday, and in post 1058 I said the Glork was still in my top two. Glork would have known that I found him scummier than you then. It was only later in the day that I raised some suspicions of you. And even then, in post 1132 I gave a clear protown point to you
As for why I felt Glork needed to go for me yesterday, it was a matter of counting lynches. Glork needed 2 mislynches to win yesterday. Pooky was never going to be one of those lynches. You couldn't have been lynched yesterday (Glork couldn't have gotten Pooky or LML to go after you). So Glork either can try to lynch LML yesterday or me yesterday. But if he tries to lynch LML then he either reaches an endgame with Pooky (which he would have clearly lost IMHO), or he reaches this endgame. But as things stand, Glork has a problem with this endgame. Either he has to vote me and make a massive flip-flop on the whole "Mountainous implies Thok-town" that he had been repeating forever, or he had to go after you which at the start of the day was an endgame I had indicated he was likely to lose.
Obviously, the flaw in my thinking was that I underestimated Glork's ability to make a massive flip-flop on me.
Feh, I probably overpressed my attack on LML. I did think he was likely scum. If you believe me being overly aggressive and throwing in a variety of attacks on somebody is a scum tell from me, rather than a sign of my commitment to hunting scum, then I can't convince you otherwise.I agree with this. I thought it was a bit of a weak point.Glork wrote:And actually, yeah, most of this supplemental stuff that Thok suggested -- especially the meta-attacks on LmL's inactivity -- is crap that I definitely wouldn't buy, especially given Thok's behavior during D1 of this game (and his behavior during the first ~40 pages of Lights Out 2).
I'll say more about this when Glork does the inevitable "Thok's play is much like LO2"; let's just say I've done some thought about that comparison, and there are fairly strong differences between my play in the two games. (For a sneak peek at my arguments, let me note the fact that I'm the post leader in this game, and that I have significantly many more posts in this game than in LO2).
Feh. It's apparent that when you analyze me with logic you decide you should be ProThok and when you analyze things with your gut it suggests you should be antiThok. I mess up a lot of people's gut. If you want me to throw a bunch of questions at you to get you to logically analyze this feeling, I can do so.This post feels a bit off. You seem to stress your certainty a bit too much.Thok wrote:Obviously, I'm heavily leaning towards voting Glork now. VitaminR's contribution to EmpTyger wagon strikes me as essentially impossible for a scum to have done, not when the Skruffs wagon was a viable alternative at that time.
I'm only avoiding voting for the moment to see reactions. I'll probably be voting Glork in about 20 hours, along with a "why you should vote Glork instead of Thok case". (I'll feel silly about that post if VitR is scum, but as I said, I find that impossible.)
I will say that I wanted to hear you and Glork's reaction to that post ot get a final piece of information before I cast my vote. Also, see below.
When you asked the question about EmpTyger and LML, it made me go back and analyze the day 1 wagons more closely. It gave me a better feel for things like the presence of the day 1 Skruffs wagon, which I don't think was mentioned previously in the game. If I had noticed that day 2 or day 3, I would have mentioned you (and to a lesser extent SV, given her unvote of Skruffs) as being likely protown much earlier. For various reasons, you were always a low priority to everybody throughout this game, and nobody really talked that much about the events of day 1 as much as they should have. (As evidence, if people had noticed SV's unvote of Skruffs in connection with EmpTyger's various meltdowns, we probably wouldn't have lynched her.)I want to know why my place on the Emp wagon has led you to this conclusion now and why it didn't have that significance earlier.
------------------
So some actual new arguements on why Glork is scum.
1. Fun with foobardog (who Glork replaced). Part 1
Hey look, VitR caught foobardog in post 44. (Yes, this isn't a strong argument. It's worth noting).
2. Fun with foobardog. Part 2.
Both foobardog (posts 20 and 28) and Skruffs speculate on flavor early. Skruffs got wagonned for it, and foobardog never was. Why is that? Well, EmpTyger pushes the issue immediately in posts 23 and 45, which means that everybody remembers Skruffs doing the speculation and foobardog isn't really discussed. (Again this isn't very strong, but it's worth noting).
3. Fun with foobardog. Part 3.
EmpTyger doesn't really mention foobardog much day 1. He never specifically directed a question towards foobardog. He mentions there being an early foobar wagon lost in the crash, and mentions tht he noticed something in a foobar post that would let him vote for him, but says since it disappeared he can't push that and then proceeds to bash PJ's brains in multiple posts. Given that EmpTyger tends to go after everybody he can this is another weak antiGlork thing.
4. Same as argument 3, but replace EmpTyger with Glork
EmpTyger doesn't mention me or Glork much before he gets lynched. The one notable exception is that EmpTyger supports Glork when Glork goes on his antilurker vandetta on me day 1.
5. EmpTyger's end of lynch comments about possibilities for my roles.
I've discussed this before. My comments about how it's likely he was trying to use that to confuse us about the setup of the game gains more credence now.
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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This post was added during my response to your previous post. If you want, I'll reply to it, although I feel I've implicitly answered some of your questions in my above post. (I should answer the question about your 1117 and about Glork's vote a bit more specifically to be sure).VitaminR wrote:Also, what was your feeling about it when I mentioned it in 1117 (after you asked me to give reasons as to why you should think me pro-town)?VitaminR wrote:I want to know why my place on the Emp wagon has led you to this conclusion now and why it didn't have that significance earlier.
You briefly mention that Glork was still in your top two yesterday, but mostly you did not focus on him until after LML's lynch. Was he still on your radar? How did you feel about his LML vote?
I replaced into Chess Mafia for 6 months, and all I got was a win and this lousy sig.
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VitR, if you're scum, just go ahead and drop the hammer. Otherwise I'll get around to addressing this game this weekend.
And again, as to why I didn't put in a lengthy analysis of you: I've been really busy, and the endgame of Mafia 60 (which just finished today) was a higher priority level for what little time I *did* have on the site. I really wish I could offer a better explanation/excuse. But that's all I have. The posts I did manage to contribute were limited to responding to what was going on at the immediate time, and even then I managed to miss something (like Thok's meta-attack at LmL, which I didn't get to until twilight yesterday).
And again, as to why I didn't put in a lengthy analysis of you: I've been really busy, and the endgame of Mafia 60 (which just finished today) was a higher priority level for what little time I *did* have on the site. I really wish I could offer a better explanation/excuse. But that's all I have. The posts I did manage to contribute were limited to responding to what was going on at the immediate time, and even then I managed to miss something (like Thok's meta-attack at LmL, which I didn't get to until twilight yesterday).
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Meh. At least I never have to bother with this god-forsaken game again.
Apologies to all for my shoddy play. Honestly, I guarnatee I'm more pissed at myself than any of the other players are. Life's been kicking my ass lately, and I just never could get into the game properly.
Apologies to all for my shoddy play. Honestly, I guarnatee I'm more pissed at myself than any of the other players are. Life's been kicking my ass lately, and I just never could get into the game properly.
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*Munches on popcorn*
Show
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
-Norwee
"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."
-Norwee
"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
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As you have all realised by now, this was a Mountainous game -- which is why role claims were banned. In a way, this was a sequel to Space Monkey Mafia: a game that appeared to be very complicated and weird but in the end was a simple as it could be. I hope you enjoyed it -- I realise that some of you did not.
Congratulations are especially due to VitaminR: in a way, this game was a 9 Town: 1 Scum game, which he did amazingly well to win.
Congratulations are especially due to VitaminR: in a way, this game was a 9 Town: 1 Scum game, which he did amazingly well to win.
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And so the town mountainous losing streak continues.
Congrats, etc, yadda-yadda, you know the drill. *bites Stoofer* (and not the particularly playful kind) for trying to force me to stay in the game when I made it clear I wanted replacing, though. When somebody wants off the carnival ride, you don't wait until
Congrats, etc, yadda-yadda, you know the drill. *bites Stoofer* (and not the particularly playful kind) for trying to force me to stay in the game when I made it clear I wanted replacing, though. When somebody wants off the carnival ride, you don't wait until
after
they've puked. "Logic? I call that flapdoodle."