Mina wrote:Thor665 wrote:So, if Mina flips scum I'm allowed to mock Sotty, yes?
Sotty has had me as a low-grade suspect all game, and you haven't attacked me once all game. Is this joke sincere, sarcastic, or just an attempt to look innocent? Are you really saying you'd deserve credit if I were scum when you'd have been the very LAST person to catch on?
Hello super sensitive. the joke was about how long it took Sotty to come around to a very obvious and very needed lynch. I'm pretty sure Sotty got it. I'm not claiming credit, nor would I deserve it.
Mina wrote:Thor665 wrote:Look at the number of pretty assured town we have. Look at the number of suspects you have. This is not hard math. If I am that big of a distraction/confusion to town I *should* be lynched. That's half the argument for Mina now - she's potential scum and
she's suspicious
. We've got a hella'ton of lynches available. Let's pop the players who are
super suspicious
and either nail scum or narrow the field. Scum lost this game ages ago, we're just mopping up here.
All right, that does it. You're saying you find me "super suspicious"? I'm calling you on this.
Never mind the fact that it's pretty clear I'm inferring that everyone who is super suspicious should be lynched and have also clearly stated that I don't have any real suspects after you - but, sure, let's consider the evidence and go over it. The important thing to keep in mind is that all of these quotes come from a universe where the competing wagons were Mina and Empking;
Thor665 wrote:Isn't voting Mina for dithering a bit like voting Furcolow for OMGUSing? I dunno, I agree Mina looks bad but she just doesn't feel that scummy to me. Meanwhile we have Empking who is most assuredly acting dicey around important wagons and whose predecessors did the same. He's even been bouncing around today trying to be wherever it looks like an alternate wagon is going to spring up.
I don't consider your dithering to be a super scumtell. I consider Empking to be *more* scummy than what you've done. It's almost as though I'm saying Empking is a better lynch than Mina.
Mina's last post
looks so town
.
Empking's last post looks so scum.
Please don't make me have to evolve into Benmage as my next evolutionary step of meta.
Your last post looks townish.
Empking's last post looks scummy.
It's almost as though I'm saying Empking is a better lynch than Mina.
Thor665 wrote:No, I consider; 'hey look, we have 7 mislynches, here's a list of who we shouldn't lynch, now let's lynch everyone else (including me) and we almost assuredly win automatically and if not those people on the 'not lynch' list should be able to muddle through in endgame"
a town tell
. Also, I actually agree that if the case on her is legit she'd have to be pretty derpy town when it comes to understanding how to bus/defend her buddies.
At the very least I consider it less scummy then 'If I was scum I'd be on Percy right now...never mind that I was on Percy yesterday and was on Percy for a period of time today.'
You advance a plan of lynching everyone who is suspect (including yourself) and I *agree to that plan* (and have continued to do so today oddly enough...)
I end the commentary by noting how I consider what you've done as less scummy than Empking.
It's almost as though I'm saying Empking is a better lynch than Mina.
Mina wrote:Seriously. You don't just seem to suspect Empking more than me (although I left in the last line of that third quote for objectivity's sake). You seem to strongly feel that
I'm town
. Now you're saying you found my behaviour suspicious all along...but you were just sooooooo much more certain of Empking that you couldn't even
believe
that I'd be scum.
I don't think I ever indicated that I had a town read on you - I pretty clearly indicated i had more of a town read on you
than Empking who I wanted to lynch first
. You're intentionally taking commentary where I indicate that I'd rather lynch Emp before you and somehow suggesting that it means I consider you obvious town - which I do not and never said. None of your above quotes from me say I consider you town, they say I consider the things you are doing as townish and that is a big difference. Let's go back in time (one day prior to all those quotes) where I did up a suspect list to make IAI happy;
Thor665 wrote:I Am Innocent wrote:Can I have a list of your town reads Thor?
Elmo, furcolow, and jasonT are the obvious towns.
Sotty7, Benmage, Percy, and Locke, are town reads.
Mina and KaleiÐoscøpe are in a middle cloud wherein Mina is being felt more town probably because I find her playstyle amusing and Kscope is being felt more scum because he has embraced his hammer personality.
Why do you need this list of all my reads? (especially since half of them I'm pretty sure I've already explicitly stated in thread)
What;s that? Super town Mina is one of my bottom suspects? Empking was one of my chosen scum? The world has ended! Yes - you were more town than Empking. No, that does not mean I'm not allowed to want to lynch you.
Mina wrote:Also, you never answered this:
Mina wrote:Thor665 wrote:My vote for Mina would pretty much be
either sheeping Locke's case
, or for the reasons I noted in 1128 - and is probably a vague and uncertain combination of both. If she's scum, huzzah for our side, if she's town she has to go because we'll be having this debate before every single lynch otherwise.
[1]Okay, maybe I can buy that you're willing to lynch me in spite of your D2 town read simply to remove a distraction or get information, although it's not an argument I'm a fan of. But what happened to this:
I've only ever played with Mina as town. She dithers as town. Unless she doesn't dither as scum (which I doubt) all that shows is dithering is a normal part of her meta and
is not the most optimal place to build a case and when I read Locke's case that's what I see - 'Mina didn't make solid commitments to reads'
.
[2] It seemed that you didn't like Locke's case much at the time, but now you're listing it as one of your primary reasons for voting me.
I'll blame Null for burying it. Okay, let's answer;
1. I never said I had a Day 2 town read on you - get over your misrepping self. (I'll add that even if I did have a Day 2 town read, it would have had to have been pretty strong for me not to be down with lynching you now anyway)
2. Yes, because *other* people like the case and we're running low on potential suspects. Do you remember when you were down with being lynched as a top potential suspect? I do.
Mina wrote:Please explain why. I want lots and lots of words, beyond "sheeping Locke's case," which you never liked in the first place.
Write a case on me. Explain your motives and thought process behind your change of heart in longwinded detail, like I did for Percy, and why you think the towntells you'd noticed yesterday are no longer convincing. Share your opinions on the other players in the game as well. It doesn't have to be 3500 words long, but a couple of paragraphs would be nice.
You want all my reads again? Yeeesh.
Okay, my "motive" behind my "change of heart" is that first off - it wasn't a change of heart because even you were able to find a quote where I agreed with your lynch plan, thought it was good, and was okay with you being on it (along with other players I actually find *more* town than you, and that should have been pretty clear as well)
Your big hangup is, again, that you seem to think because I called you townish and wanted Emp lynched first that it somehow equates to me never wanting to see you lynched which is total poppycock. If we lynch you and you flip town I'm probably going to somehow magically be able to look at the list of players and figure out another one whom I consider a top suspect - THAT'S HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED. All of these thoughts have been explained by me before, but apparently because I can explain them in two sentences it somehow makes the thoughts harder to understand/difficult to find. So, I suppose, the only answer is to repeat them eight times in a giant post because...reasons.
So, in summation, I can't discuss my change of heart because it's very clear there wasn't one.
My opinions on the other players would be summed up thusly;
Sotty7, furcolow, and jasonT are the obvious towns. - furc and jason are cleared by interactions with the dead scum and if Sotty is scum I'll have egg all over my face because she is clearly scumhunting around and trying to get clear reads.
Null, Benmage, Percy, and IAI are my solid town reads (sorry Ben
) Null dropped down a level from earlier because Elmo's "aw shucks, giving up" attitude looked like scum with a busted team who didn't want to play anymore. However Null's replace in was not very scumlike, as I noted earlier, and his positions helped elevate Sotty into obv. town status because the odds of this slot being scum are much higher than her and this slot just attacked her. Ben and IAI are on there for the way they voted BS, and Percy has just felt town throughout to me. Percy and Null are probably the pair I'd be most willing to lynch from this level (apparently I have to say that because otherwise I'll have changes of heart I'll have to explain)
KaleiÐoscøpe is probably who I'd try to lynch next, but I honestly feel terrible about the read and he's mostly there just for having a playstyle I find sort of annoying and a bit for the tunnel focus on Percy after even Benmage realized that wasn't an optimal lynch (and if Benmage can untunnel than everyone else should be able to)
Mina is who I want lynched.
Mina wrote:Maybe it's just that I'm more prone to town reads than scum reads. But normally, when I have a gut town read on someone, it stays even after my top suspect is lynched, although I might have doubts. And if I change my mind, I can usually explain what caused the change.
Thank you for applying your meta to me I guess? This doesn't follow - you don't play like furc does - does that automatically make furc scum every game? Also, this all stems from a false belief that I called you town as opposed to calling for an Emp lynch over a you lynch.
Mina wrote:Instead, you've gone from steadfastly defending me and seeming passionately against my lynch, to trying to egg people onto my wagon.
I'm not sure I'd call it passionate (though that is romantic and heroic sounding for me
) - but yes, I have done exactly this.
Mina wrote:Worse, you're not even making a case for my guilt, just trying to tempt them by saying, "Hey, she's a suspect, and we have aaaaaaaaall the lynches we need, so why think it through?" And part of your argument is that you and Sotty are my only two defenders, when
you and Sotty are half of the players voting for me right now
. (In all fairness, though, IAI and Kscope wouldn't be sorry to see me gone...at least, if they were still reading the game. <_<)
IAI is really unlikely town. We can do KScope after or before me, and we *do* have aaaaaaaall the lynches we need. Town doesn't need to engage real scumhunting again until we're down to the last day with MYLO and *TWO TOWN LYNCHES AVAILABLE* That's super awesome easy mode for town, and *that's* when town needs to pay attention. Right now town needs to deal with the chaff that could make that mylo dangerous. The case for your guilt is that it fits that you could be scum and that lots of players here don't consider you very obvious town - and that's ALL the case that is needed at this stage. If you are town you should recognize that you are a mylo liability and endorse your coming death because there is no way scum will NK you.
Mina wrote:And you're saying that if I flip town, you'd be totally okay with being lynched yourself, even though you weren't even on my original lynch list. (In all fairness, that's not something I'd expect to hear from scum.) You have no clue who the last scum is, so hey, let other players make the decisions in endgame!
Thor, be honest. Are you doing the same thing you did in
A Clash of Kings
Mafia, in which you checked out at the end and stopped wanting to think things through, yes or no?
Already covered this - but, yeah, probably. The thing is that it's pretty clear that we are in a situation where town should just zip through some lynches and not wear itself out. As for me being on the potential lynch list - I'm saying that because of how hot Sotty is about me. If I'm in her top two than I'm probably a liability and should go, and frankly I think we're within 1-2 lynches of a win anyway.
Mina wrote:Look, I understand that the town's situation is really good, that I'm a decent lynch by PoE, that Locke's case almost made me cry, and that mislynching me wouldn't be the end of the world. But simply out of respect to me, can you try to give a Smurf right now?
You are explaining my case on you right now while still acting like my case is unreasonable. Why is that? Either you should understand my logic, or you should find it bad, but if you find it bad how can you disagree with it here? I do give a Smurf, and that's why you need to be lynched.
Mina wrote:I know you're really hoping that this game will end with my death, so you'd rather save your breath. But I'm putting a ton of work into this game. At least do me the courtesy of making a suspect list, taking a stand on every player in the game, thinking things through critically, and writing an actual case on me. Sotty and Percy did me that courtesy. Furthermore, if you're town, then your play today is guaranteeing that the town won't win until at least Day Four, because by being so blasé, you're serving yourself up on a silver platter as a mislynch. And if the killer is someone unlikely like I am Innocent, your lynch might make the difference between a win and a loss.
Yes, a big delay until Day 4...when town will still have 2 lynches to use on Day 5 with only *four suspects available*. On Day 5, town could flip some coins and still win half the time - and that's not counting the four lynches leading into the affair. And if town doesn't win until Day 4...so what? This is really just starting to look more like scum angling of 'don't lynch me
juuust
yet' and I am not getting happy-day town vibes from it. Your arguement is that we shouldn't lynch you because we might win a day earlier? Big whoop.
Mina wrote:Also, if you're willing to get lynched, think of it this way. Today is your last chance to get all your reads out! Why not make the effort?
My reads, such as they were, were already out there. I don't need a wall to make them.
Mina wrote:Yesterday, I wouldn't have even considered lynching you. I probably trusted you as much as (or even more than) jason on gut. Now I'm almost considering moving you to my top tier, simply because of how disinterested you seem.
Oh noes, you thought I was town and now you want to lynch me. Terrible! Wait, what was your issue with me again?
Wooosh, there, done. I basically said what I've already said earlier in the game but I used more words - hope that helps someone.
