Mafiascum.net

UNVOTE:
VOTE: No Lynch

Fine, I would very much like to get rid of Thomith and call it a day. But again RD makes some good points. And I just want this Day to end, this game is turning into a typical day in congress, lots of talking but nothing really happening.

If we lynch right today it's autowin, and I still think that he's mafia. If he's town I think I would be able to handle the other players but w/e, I guess you guys want to no lynch

Trust me, I want to lynch Thomith, but I 'think' it may be the best play to no lynch.

I will gladly lynch Thomith is the prevailing thought changes.

Thomith is obviously the scum, and we get way further from a loss if we kill him today.

↑ Chrimi wrote:Thomith is obviously the scum, and we get way further from a loss if we kill him today.

And if you are wrong?

You realize you are essentially betting the game on being right today, since if he is town OOTN dies, we lynch sando, then I die. At that point its AcRv choosing between three uncleareds, and likely means you get lynched.

So essentially you (as town) are betting the game on Thomith-scum right here and now, when if Thomith is town it will clear FD (who is probably town but still) or catch him.

Im thinking more and mroe about investigations though. Since any guilty would be a 1v1... I think that both cops actually should investigate the player of their choosing tonight after a no lynch, since hitting scum is an auto-win for us.

Im a little hesitatnt given that if Thomith is scum im in for a rough ride and would LIKE to be cleared, but if I could even end up with knowing for sure which of PM/Chrimi are scum I think I could tackle it for an easier win.

My biggest problem still with Thomith-scum is PM/Chrimi basically have to be the partner to them, and I dont see both of them responding to my "cop information" move with "vote Thomith-partner over GNR-partner".

Logic is saying Thomith is scum, but my gut actually is arguing the other way around. I just want to be sure about anything we do here.

@Chrimi - Why did you cop hunt after my cop thing yesterday?
@Thomith - Who is most likely scum with sando and why?
@sando - Who is most likely scum with Thomith and why?

Im officially refusing to vote anything but no lynch today. Its the right move whether you are willing to accept it or not. No lynch simply eliminates two more pairings in their entirety.

RD, I wasn't thinking is the best way to put it.

I'm investigating you RD, there's no way I'm not doing that tonight. PM is the most likely, I've outlined why previously, but essentially you and chrimi have both tried really hard to commit scum-suicide today. PM just just jumps on the thomith thing once I pointed that out.

Thomith will give an innocent, may as well make him clear fud while you're at it.

Does ootn know how to break the game if I die tonight? It's auto win for town, but a little complicated.

↑ Sando wrote:Thomith will give an innocent, may as well make him clear fud while you're at it.

Again, im planning from BOTH sides here. If you are scum and he hits your partner, we win. Given that statement, FD probably isnt your partner. Its an interesting situation where after the game I can discuss theory a little more just so I dont give scum any ideas about how to play this, but I think it actually could be amazingly fun to be playing as scum here.

As I keep saying, you are doing EXACTLY what scum in your position should be doing, so im naturally nervous about it. The counter is mafia play 101. You counter and try to get Thomith lynched, knowing you will eat the next lynch but leave as many mislynches available as possible for a partner getting them to an endgame with all non-soild clears.

Does ootn know how to break the game if I die tonight? It's auto win for town, but a little complicated.

No clue, but if you die im alive so yes. He would know.

After the game I'd like someone to tell me how claiming cop before the fake-claim is either 'countering' or 'mafia 101'. Thomith breadcrumbing, then not countering me when I claim and in fact claiming VT, then countering my claim at RDs behest, is NOT an example of me counter-claiming someone...

Just FYI, you just did exactly what scum MUST do in your position, attempt to get me out of investigating you tonight. Hence, no, I'm investigating you.

Postgame will be interesting, yes

↑ Sando wrote:After the game I'd like someone to tell me how claiming cop before the fake-claim is either 'countering' or 'mafia 101'. Thomith breadcrumbing, then not countering me when I claim and in fact claiming VT, then countering my claim at RDs behest, is NOT an example of me counter-claiming someone...

If Thomith is the cop, yeah you did counter him. Which is the right move for scum that does not include Thomith (and probably is in the best position). If you are scum, you know Thomith is the cop so even though he was backing up, its still a counter technically, and again precisely what scum needed to do if Thomith is scum.

Also its *almost* the right move for me as scum to try and get you to not investigate me directly. Right play would have been to go for your lynch hard hoping to get PM/Chrimi to tag along for a mislynch in lylo, or to get you to investigate PM along with Thomith as I already was arguing him town so losing him doesnt much hurt my stances and there is no need to backtrack anything. If I can get you to come to the conclusion that its better to investigate somepony else instead of why it best not to check me it arouses far less suspicion.

Im happy with being checked though since it prevents sand-scum pulling out what looks like a tempting Thomith-Dash pairing

@OOTN - I want confirmation you are not blocking sando/Thomith tonight no matter what. You can either do nothing or block in me/FD/AcRv. Nopony else. Leaving any ambiguity here leaves scum open for "oh I got blocked" play and if you are dead no way to prove it.

That wouldn't have worked, there's no plan you can put without FuD/RD investigate tonight that I wouldn't be screaming blue murder about. I'm only reasonably passive about the no-lynch because the status-quo of me vs Thomith is kept, and you and FuD are 100% cleared. Having put yourself in this position, the only way out if you're scum at the moment is to avoid me investigating you.

I claimed first, how am I 'countering'?

As for OOTN, if you're scum I'm dying overnight, that's a given. Hence he needs to know how to break the game in the event that I die, without your coaching.

↑ Sando wrote:I claimed first, how am I 'countering'?

Ehhh... it was obvious he at least set up for a claim when he did nothing to my response of seeing the breadcrumb. If I got GNR-cop lynched that would have been the game for scum. Either way I was convinced enough he had claimed to ask him explicitly if he was cop afterwords. Again, if you are scum you knew he was the only one who logically could be the cop.

As for OOTN, if you're scum I'm dying overnight, that's a given. Hence he needs to know how to break the game in the event that I die, without your coaching.

Ok fine...

If sando-cop dies, we lynch Thomith at which point we have the following group of players going into night
OOTN (JK)
Dash
PM
AcRv (clear)
Chrimi
FD (clear)

OOTN jails me and calls it pre-lynch. If a kill occurs we have at day

Dash (clear)
AcRv (clear)
FD (clear)
PM
Chrimi

Thats forced win.

If kill doesnt occur, we lynch somepony (chrimi, assume town) to get going into night with agian OOTN calling a JK on me

OOTN (clear)
AcRv (clear)
FD (clear)
Dash
PM

If a kill happens it PM, no kill its a force win.

There you go. Killing the cop is a forced win for town, if its Thomith-cop, you just have to assume AcRv town instead of having it explicit.

Ok it is clear we should no lynch, and it is clear that RD and myself should be investigated. Om should stop lurking so much and state who he would block then we can finally end this Day and hopefully move closer to a win.

If Om states who he's going to block then the scum just use not the person he blocked. That simple.

Is there any more we need to discuss, or can we just hurry up and get the no lynch?

Not saying who I am blocking :P

Not blocking Sando/Thomith either.

Yeah, don't block Sando or Thomith, but don't tell us who you intend on blocking.

In case it's not obvious, RD is correct about the forced win if I die, and how to do it. There's other ways, but that works.

the most likely scum by PoE is chrimi and matt obv, right now i am unsure which is more likely but chrimi is definately acting more like scum than pm is imo, so after sando dies you should probably do one of those two as the others are most likely town.