Open 583: JK9++ (Game Over!)

[mastin2]

BBT.

If copper's scum, he's lying about being venge.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Vengeful doesn't seem a great fake-claim for scum to make.

[Heartless]

Where were you yesterday when I said that, BBT?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Umm, I don't know?

[Heartless]

I've formulated an updated hypothesis and I have quite solid town reads on vettrock, Aneninen, and Wickedestjr, all of which are very unlikely to change in the near future.

The remaining playerlist is: killapenwin, BlueBloodedToffee, copper223, beastcharizard, Tean Samargo, and mastin2

beastcharizard is more likely to be scum than not. After catching a lot of flak for being useless on Day 1, we see him re-enter the thread on Day 2 with a promise to contribute something showy in Post 1128. We're then given an explanation about how Day 1 played out from beastcharizard's perspective: that it was an elaborate ruse, using himself as bait. This is an unlikely story for several reasons. One is that it has an obvious lack of foresight. What was to be the method for distinguishing overeager scum from town with a certain perspective and set of scumtells they're working from? We don't know, and beast doesn't seem the kind of player to be working from a methodology that requires that kind of precision. There's also a distinct lack of follow up on this asserted principle. His only push since the revelation was us, and we never voted nor pushed beastcharizard at any previous point in the game.

The meta arguments he's making aren't true, and baffling given our game histories. As Antihero already pointed out, beastcharizard never played in Open 573. However, he

did

play an open game with us quite recently: Open 576.1: The Enemy of My Enemy. Saying me doing most of the posting is a scum tell for us is ridiculous and doesn't stand up to the mildest application of logic. First of all, our posting distribution was fairly even in Open 573 and we weren't exactly playing to our scum metas in that game either. And in the game beast

was

in, Open 576.1, we were posting fairly evenly until Day 3, which I was doing almost all the posting. We were town in that game.

So, in summary, the meta argument doesn't have legs and based on lies, and I suspect the whole "trap" gambit was a lie too because he's voted none of his detractors from either Days 1 or 2. Anti seems to be dismissing it to laziness, but I think it's because he's making stuff up as he goes.

[Aneninen]

[OFF]

I must share this with everyone now. (And whenever you call me a freak next time, remember that someone actually MADE this video.)

Intergalactic Proton Powered Electrical Tentacled Advertising Droids

[/ON]

Posting real content soon.

[copper223]

@Vettrock
You are right, I had just figured out how to examine the setup based on what you said about the 7 rolls and did not think about what the double nk meant as far as narrowing it down means, I also already thought we were in the PKIITTT case and added the other one for the rest of you.

@All
I think mass claiming is vital.

[Heartless]

There's also the arthritic backpedal in Post 1194, Post 1197, and Post 1201 where he suddenly can't tell Anti and I apart (I sincerely doubt this) and the purpose of the vote morphs into a reaction test of sorts.

[Heartless]

I think our vote is very much in a sub-optimal place.
UNVOTE:
While I look over BBT and Tean again. I'm starting to suspect BBT's been riding in our blind spot.

[copper223]

Vengeful doesn't seem a great fake-claim for scum to make.

Hmm so you are likely scum too, this makes me happy, BBT/Tean/Mastin and Beast?

Mastin, if you are town examine the game again because you are completely off from where I am standing.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I would love to know how that makes me scum.

[copper223]

You know I am not fake claiming, that's why you came out with that ridiculous statement about me being unlikely scum because scum would be OP if I could shoot soneone when I die.

[copper223]

In fact:

VOTE: BBT

I see some remote cases where Mastin is not scum, I see very very few where Tean isn't and you have a decent association with both, that slip, when you wanted to lynch me so bad yesterday is pretty decisive.

If you are scum sorry for the abuse, al's fair in that case.

[Aneninen]

So, answers. (Sorry, I'm still laughing on my video I posted.)

Vettrock, 1214 – So, you're saying that you've been scumreading Copper. Either I'm unable to read (in this case I'll ask an Advertising Droid to help me ^_^), or your read, before this post, was a fence-sitting at best.

"So everyone else who hasn't said they are against the massclaim, if they post now they are scum because they could have said it before as well?"

– I think it was BBT, Wicked and you, who reacted to that post. I'm townreading BBT for several other reasons. Wicked told that he would agree with a massclaim and that weakened my townread on him. In your case, it's not the only reason for my scumread.

Copper, 1215 –

"I did not read the part about how the mod rolls only 7 letters and fills out the rest, if you look at my post you can see what I'm doing by adding the PR's."

– Huh? If the mod rolled a letter for every townie there would be an even higher chance for town-PRs. What you're saying here makes zero sense.

"TTT

II

PK which means 3 scum and an SK, so if we don't lynch correctly this game is over. I think this is where we are at."

– I I ?

I I ???

What the f-ck is that second I? The setup could contain any other PRs and you're talking about

I I

? – That doesn't make sense either.

Mastin, 1219 and nearby.
You're right, it's partly about your playstyle.

But

, you said that I might think it's anti-town. You also said that you have several playstyles. Need I explain how bad the situation is? You must know too that if we mislynch Today, there may be a LyLo Tomorrow. Why on Gods' Green Earth don't you choose a less anti-town playstyle?
Also, you were on both of the Davesaz and the Eyestott wagon, you were the one who pushed the Davesaz-wagon hardest. These are facts.

"with Tean as an outside possibility who may or may not be scum, but whose lynch would provide further POE on the scum."

– I don't like this. We don't have time for PoE lynches.

You said that we're "fairly synergetic players". And if I dropped my scumread on you we could work together. You might say the truth, but I strongly think that you want to fool me. Why are you telling this to me? Why not to your other townreads? To Heartless, Wicked, or maybe Beast? I wish I didn't think that you would like me to drop my scumread on you. I wish I didn't think that I could be important for you because of my scumread on Vettrock. These are the things in which I'm different from your other townreads.

BBT, 1224 –

"The majority of Copper's play strikes me as scummy but scum seem way too overpowered if we can essentially lose the game by lynching

Scum!Copper

, he shoots townie and scum and SK kill to end game for town."

– Uhh, didn't you mean town-Copper? Vengeful is a town PR in this setup.

BBT, 1226 –

"Vengeful doesn't seem a great fake-claim for scum to make."

– I don't think so. Noone dares to vote Copper now because of that claim. By the way, I saw Copper fake-claiming in another game (although they had Nightkilled me before). The scums won, we hardly had any chance.

Heartless, 1229 – explain why Vettrock is town, will you? As for Beast, you may or may not be true.

But, I absolutely dislike that you're STILL voting for Penguin, while you're talking ONLY about Beast – when there are six players on the "remaining" list.

Irrelevant, they unvoted Penguin later.

Copper, 1231 – Again, WHAT IS that I I ? And again, massclaiming would be bad!
Also, your "case" against BBT is pigeon poop. You were mis-speculating the setup a lot before and you're scumreading BBT because of a similar, but less singificant thing.

[copper223]

Fuck it, I think it's pretty clear Vettrock is hinting at being 1-shot tracker and that's why he was sure of Eyestott yesterday. That is why I think we are in the PKIITTT setup.

My lack of knowledge is neither scum nor town indicative, it shows I did not put the proper time to evaluate this game, if you know me this should tell you what that likely means for my alignment, but that's speculation, BBT's phrasing is indicative of someone that knows I can only be vengeful and that is why it likely is a slip.

[Aneninen]

Okay. I really,

really

dislike this.
Not only because I don't remember Vettrock hinting a thing like that.
Also, because in this case you shouldn't have posted about it at all. This has been the third thing which suggests that you're trying to out the Town-PRs.

As for BBT, do you mean this?

"The majority of Copper's play strikes me as scummy but scum seem way too overpowered if we can essentially lose the game by lynching Scum!Copper, he shoots townie and scum and SK kill to end game for town."

How does it suggest that he knows you could only be Vengeful? I don't get it at all.

[Aneninen]

Alternatively, there's another possibility why you are talking about a possible Vettrock hint but I won't post about it right now.

[copper223]

I already told you town should mass claim because it's most likely 6-4, if you or Mastin are town it's more your own fault for scumhunting the likely last PR at mylo otherwise I would not have said anything.

Yes that is the quote, scum Copper is not shooting anyone once you lynch him, because scum Copper would not be vengeful, scum Copper also doesn't exist, the only players I can see writing such an awkward sentence are those that already know in the back of their mind that I am vengeful and are making up the rest of the post without realizing the contradiction

[Heartless]

Fuck it, I think it's pretty clear Vettrock is hinting at being 1-shot tracker and that's why he was sure of Eyestott yesterday.

I picked up on the same thing, and I don't know if saying that was entirely necessary but it is what it is now.

[Heartless]

I would love to know how that makes me scum.

The fact that you're backpedaling on a scum read for dubious reasons now that it's not in vogue. The vengeful claim has been there quite some time, you even said in Post 821 that it was a "great claim for scum to make." It would be one thing if you thought he was a liar for some particular reason, but back then you made it sound like it was good for scum to claim vengeful on principle.

So how is it not now?

[copper223]

It's likely not a question of vogue, it's about who I would shoot if I get lynched.

[vettrock]

Fuck it, I think it's pretty clear Vettrock is hinting at being 1-shot tracker and that's why he was sure of Eyestott yesterday. That is why I think we are in the PKIITTT setup.

My lack of knowledge is neither scum nor town indicative, it shows I did not put the proper time to evaluate this game, if you know me this should tell you what that likely means for my alignment, but that's speculation, BBT's phrasing is indicative of someone that knows I can only be vengeful and that is why it likely is a slip.

Since it is out there, I am the one shot tracker. If you read through my ISO, you can probably see some hints.

[vettrock]

I will say all of my reads are weak reads with the exception of eyestott, who I'm putt fairly solidly on the town side. It is partially by POE and partially initial feeling.

If your reads are weak reads, how can you have eyestott as town by PoE?

You don' have to trust any of my other reads, but you can trust my read on Eyestott as town.

@Mastin
Did you consider Vettrock's read on Eyestott yesterday? Why does scum Vettrock say he is sure the tracker is town?

@Vettrock
Why were you certain of your Eyestott read yesterday?

It was related to the claim, and the lack of the counter claim, I think that is enough for now.

Everyone: do not claim!!!

I agree we should not claim.

Also, he mentions (1198) that Copper's claim may be fake – but he still goes on with the assumption that the claim is real (and tries to explain that there must be an SK).

I think we can be pretty sure that there is serial killer. Even if Copper's claim is false, if there is at least one other power role out there, there are three scum.

a few hints. There is probably more.

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 2.4

killapenwin (0) -
BlueBloodedToffee (1) - copper223
Heartless (1) - beastcharizard
copper223 (0) -
vettrock (3) - BlueBloodedToffee, mastin2, Aneninen
Aneninen (0) -
Wickedestjr (0) -
beastcharizard (2) - killapenwin, Wickedestjr
Tean Samargo (0) -
mastin2 (1) - vettrock

Not Voting: Tean Samargo, Heartless

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Day 2 deadline is Tuesday, February 3rd at 10:30 pm PST which is in (expired on 2015-02-03 22:30:00)

[Jackal711]

Tean Samargo

is due a third prod and by rule is being replaced.