In post 1218, CheekyTeeky wrote:It's even weirder that Cerb asks Elsa to scumhunt and makes threats after telling me to eff off when I asked them to coordinate and do the same. Le sigh.
Chara I need your reads. Please come soon.
do you think cerb is being scummy? or just weird?
I'm not sure now if I believe that cerb believes in his push on elsa, but even that might not be scummy cause he could be just trying to force the neutral's hand to do what "town wants", which is a towny attitude to have and only a handful of scum players would go for that angle as brazenly as cerb has.
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:17 pm
by Nancy Drew Shogunate
I like flicker's post
gives absolutely 0 fucks, towny
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:25 pm
by Reasonably Rational
In post 1218, CheekyTeeky wrote:It's even weirder that Cerb asks Elsa to scumhunt and makes threats after telling me to eff off when I asked them to coordinate and do the same. Le sigh.
Chara I need your reads. Please come soon.
It's very different reasoning.
The problem I have with Elsa is the refusal to look at that group of slots critically(in spite of expressing the belief that they could be used as a way to avoid scumhunting), because they're neutral and can't look at things from a town perspective.
That means their voice is useless to the town, is it not? Whatever people saw earlier as gamesolving, if they sincerely believe that they can't look at things from a townie perspective, was fake. All fake. None of what they're doing or will do is legitimate scumhunting, AND, if actually neutral, it doesn't even give us the associative benefits of looking at a scum slot's behavior, because they're not informed at all.
I, on the other hand, dislike the fact that you attempted to strongarm us into doing something. I did not say I would never express concise reads. I did not say I COULD NOT DO IT, AS IN, LITERALLY INCAPABLE OF DOING IT. I just said that your insistence made me want to say no on principle, even though Drixx and I had decided to play this game differently already in at least that regard.
I also want Chara's reads. Go go Chara. I've missed you friend.
I know random fairly well. His lack of thread presence is not unusual, but I hate it. :-/
-Cerb
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:26 pm
by Toranaga
cerb are you even town rn
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:28 pm
by Reasonably Rational
I'm probably the towniest I've ever been D1. I like 3p's, and generally like leaving them alone because it's shitty to deny someone else their win con if it doesn't help you achieve yours.
In short, it's a reach. I don't feel compelled to respond to it for now - I know I'll sound defensive and I hate that, and a lot of refuting it relies on self-meta, which I don't like reading from other people. Maybe if/when I'm in more danger I'll elaborate more, but also, if I'm the lynch today, whatever. I'd rather get mislynched now than be left for the game-ending mislynch. (OTOH, so far I seem to be better at scumhunting via associatives after a couple flips, but I'm really not confident in those reads or my ability to convince others to follow them.)
Pedit: I see you have another question for me, which I promise I'll get to later. I have to get to bed now.
I'm okay with hearing your self meta(not even utilized as a defense mechanism, but in general), because I don't know you and how you perceive your town/scum behavior is helpful to me in setting expectations.
yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.
I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of
wrong
that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.
pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.
What you should really be considering is where the scum equity is in pushing for the lynch of that particular slot. I don't actually think there is any(which, of course, is something scum!me would know, and the entire thing would have just been constructed to let me make this point, but still), given that their attitude makes them no threat to a scum wincon, and they don't even need to die for the declared scum wincon to be achieved, and if the game is in a state where there's only one town left, they're a vote an outed scum team could count on to end the game...
Trying to remove them doesn't seem like a very good move to make. *shrug*
ANYWAYS.
Can we talk about someone else? I agree with that much. People just need to stop referencing me and Elsa, because you're almost all invariably wrong, and I feel compelled to correct you. Let's just do that, and Elsa will know my plans for tomorrow, and act appropriately, and I can go look at other people!
-Cerb
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:40 pm
by Nancy Drew Shogunate
I am considering it
our differences might be more on a fundamental level
why are you voting nico?
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:42 pm
by Elsa Jay
Well you do that, and hopefully we hear a little more from the other head of RR.
I'm tired now. G'night.
Hopefully discussions of someone that isn't me is in full force for me to read when I wake up.
PS: when I said I couldn't look at a townie perspective, obviously I meant that particular moment. I'm still pointing out things but at this point town wont follow a Neutral Leader so I'm not pushing, only following my allies.
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:51 pm
by Reasonably Rational
In post 1202, Elsa Jay wrote:I am being useful, jerkwad. Confirming the Multiball, garunteeing someone to make it to the next day with the leash strat, ive clearly been given my opinion on everything and pointing out scummy moves which are ignored.
News flash: because I town read Tora/Nancy, I am literally acting as their second vote currently. A town vote. Do you have any objections on Tora being town?
If no, then congrats. Town has a vote.
If yes, then why wouldn't you hang them instead besides being petty enough to take away my victory first and not playing town wincon?
Focus your energy where it'll be useful for town if you got it. As long as my allies are town, by definition, my vote is with town.
You should probably look at the game Cerb was hydra with Wguerts. I want to say it was SaGa Frontier by Varsoon. Pretty sure that was it. They were 3p who won when all roles with a killing power were dead. Alone.
That game was interesting because Varsoon was playing around with 3p and the fact that some folks on the site (several of us who regularly played Varsoon games) felt like there was a lot of interesting gamespace to be explored in 3p and wanted to see 3p not be auto lynched. And Cerb/Wguerts hydra definitely played on that sympathy. I'm pretty sure I even came down on the "We can always lynch them after we finish the scum off" side on the final day and helped them to that single slot win con.
So ... you're going to get pressed to put your money where your mouth is, as it were. Comes with the territory.
I'd give reasons, but apparently we don't need those anymore.
-Cerb
why are you being like that man?
mala has just declared a secret reason to townread RC slot, and RC has declared mala to be 100% town, so my vote on mala looks like I'm voting a mason softclaim and that'd be poor form, wouldn't it. so, I decided to go elsewhere and mala voted nico, I ISO'd it and it was empty. those are my reasons for voting nico.
Exactly. I think Flicker said she'd answer this when she wakes up so we'll see.
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:09 pm
by Toogeloo
Elsa playing like a 3rd party sheep, surprise surprise. And that new role info too...
People are insane for even remotely thinking Elsa won't stab town in the back. If we mislynch even a couple of times, we'll hit a point of no return to remove third party Survivor from the game. But apparently we have no power roles to help game solve during the night phase and we need to know all the scumz by the end of day 1, so let's ignore the claimed scum (yes Survivor is still scum, any non town alignment is), and cross our fingers, am I right?
yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.
I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of
wrong
that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.
pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.
Hey Tora, Being townie isn’t necessarily what you agree/disagree with, it’s about the thought process. And while I don’t agree with the push on EJ, I think that thinking is more likely to come from town. My take, is that EJ, should not receive any special treatment due to claiming neutral doc but shouldn’t be singled out in lieu of other slots, pretty much doing freaking nothing. IOW, if you’re helping town - I want you to live and if you’re either not or even worse - being some sort of distraction, then I want you dead basically and IMO, EJ is doing enough atm to earn his his life wrt to town. Do you agree or disagree with this?
yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.
I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of
wrong
that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.
pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.
Hey Tora, Being townie isn’t necessarily what you agree/disagree with, it’s about the thought process. And while I don’t agree with the push on EJ, I think that thinking is more likely to come from town. My take, is that EJ, should not receive any special treatment due to claiming neutral doc but shouldn’t be singled out in lieu of other slots, pretty much doing freaking nothing. IOW, if you’re helping town - I want you to live and if you’re either not or even worse - being some sort of distraction, then I want you dead basically and IMO, EJ is doing enough atm to earn his his life wrt to town. Do you agree or disagree with this?
I don't disagree with anything you said
you're doing the same thing I didn't like from cerb which is taking this stance of "elsa better be protown
yeah I'll go do other stuff and I'm here tomorrow. better let the thread breathe.
I don't know about RR now. it's a collection of
wrong
that cerb shouldn't be thinking in the last few posts.
pedit: then stop bugging elsa lmao. he is being fine. let's worry about other slots.
Hey Tora, Being townie isn’t necessarily what you agree/disagree with, it’s about the thought process. And while I don’t agree with the push on EJ, I think that thinking is more likely to come from town. My take, is that EJ, should not receive any special treatment due to claiming neutral doc but shouldn’t be singled out in lieu of other slots, pretty much doing freaking nothing. IOW, if you’re helping town - I want you to live and if you’re either not or even worse - being some sort of distraction, then I want you dead basically and IMO, EJ is doing enough atm to earn his his life wrt to town. Do you agree or disagree with this?
I don't disagree with anything you said
you're doing the same thing I didn't like from cerb which is taking this stance of "elsa better be protown
or else
" when elsa is being pro town all game.
-tor
What? How am I doing any such thing? I very clearly stated that he has done enough to not be pushed atm IOW, I think I’m actually AGREEING with you here and pointing out the flaws in your logic. I am also not necessarily agreeing with Cerb, what I am saying is treat him like any other player and evaluate him based on pro-town behaviour. In order for us to win, we need to evaluate slots based on how useful/useful they’re being to town. So, what I’m saying basically is that EJ has done more that is helpful to town than some unclaimed players in the game, thus far.
So, if you’re seriously disputing this, then you may possibly be allowing your emotions to blind you to what’s ultimately in our best interest.
~ Nancy
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:08 pm
by Nancy Drew Shogunate
-tor
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:51 pm
by Nancy Drew Shogunate
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:52 pm
by Nancy Drew Shogunate
anyway let me explain the things I disagree with cerb, then:
he is saying nothing elsa jay did in this game is worth to town because elsa said he can't see things from a towny perspective, and that means everything elsa did was fake. that's not true. even scum analyzes things from an honest standpoint at times, and we know what's the agenda behind elsa's posting, which is simply to survive. he may and will do things that are important for his wincon over town's wincon, but we know what that wincon is and we can predict when he is gonna act like that. being protective and townreading me, for instance, is something elsa can and will do as a result of wanting to have allies, as he keeps putting. that doesn't mean everything he does is fake and worthless. when elsa says he is not seeing things from a town perspective at times, that's just because he is honest. no one else in his shoes would, either. there's no need to pile on the player for stating the obvious that their wincon matters more to them than town's wincon.
