Mafiascum.net

Grandiosity? Yes, that's me having fun with the language.

I see what Elmo was on about though, I've used that same argument in various forms myself. He mentions False Dichotomy in on his post (Benmage vs. I Am Innocent I believe) and the technical term(I think) for what I used on RC was False Dilemma, basically giving a range of reasons that either point to the player being incompetent or scum: All bad, none good. My answer to that is that I generally don't give a player the acceptable answer in the post I vote them for. Which was all right as Red showed he was perfectly able to get it on his own. I'll argue with the "trying to sound impressive...." part though. See above.

This I bugs me so I'ma say something about it.

Dry-fit wrote:..
unvote. Vote: Oso. He's put far too much effort into analyzing the votes on him. I also agree that his attack on Red is stretching.

First off, the vote on Red wasn't stretching. He even acknowledges that. This is Mafia, the way it is setup almost requires you to vote (or at least say something) when someone posts something that isn't true.

Second, now Dry-fit is the one who is stretching. I have posted a defense against Elmo and IaI's votes against me here. It holds almost no analysis except for the part where I say I might have drawn IaI's vote because following the RC/Percy player chain of votes on Sotty7 for questioning IaI backwards, leads right back to IaI. The main thrust of that post was to to get out Point A.

Oso wrote:..
A - I chose to vote someone who verifiably said something that wasn't true.
..

in order to show exactly how weak both Elmo's and IaI's votes were. Not really needed at this point in the game since it was only two votes but like I stated, I had the time.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dry-Fit

[/inb4 OMGUS] Unlike Elmo, who efforts seems to me right now as being legitimate, and IaI, who seems to have to have been starting meltdown mode during the time he voted, Dry-Fit is legitimately scummy trying to build a case on a player by using another player's reason that had no legs to start with and by adding one of his own that fails when you look at it closely.

I missed about a day and half of posts and will miss most of today's before being able to anything other than a skim catch up but I can live with this vote for the time being.

I know Zach is busy on the weekends sometimes, so Back-up mod VC for the win!

I've played with IAI as scum, and he seemed quite calm and collected. He was much more antagonistic here than I expected before his meltdown and I don't really see where the impetus for it came from, given that there were all of three votes on him at the time, which really isn't that much pressure. I'm treating it as a null tell and I think he needs some time to cool down.

Sotty: what do you think of Nik's Jason vote?

Dry-fit wrote:

imkingdavid wrote:To be honest, I don't feel like IAI is as anti-town as he has been made out to be.

Really? You don't think his self-voting tantrum was anti-town? And what is the purpose of your unvote?

I feel that it is safe to say that we are no longer in RVS. My vote was an RVS vote. I don't believe in having a vote on someone that I don't feel is scum, so until I find reason to believe that Locke is scum, I will not place my vote on him.

Mina wrote:I'll let Imkingdavid answer himself on his definition of "antitown," but do you suspect I am Innocent, dry-fit? Do you think his behaviour is a sign of scumminess?

Self voting is scummy, yes. But IAI is the only person who had really been targeted up to that point. In my experience, it is rarely the people who are bandwagoned early on who turn out to be scum. Not saying that he can't be, just saying that that is not what my experience would suggest. Maybe labeling him as "not as antitown as he has been made out to be" wasn't the best way to say it, as that implies that all of his actions are pro-town, which they aren't.

Furcolow wrote:Anyone want to give me a quick synopsis?
What is the best wagon? Nikanor, IAmInnocent, RedCoyote, Oso?

Really? I know you were occupied at the time, but you can't trust anyone in this game; you have to make your own decisions.

Nik wrote:No, I'm a day cop. jasonT is mafia.

And what is your goal behind claiming this early, when you're not even at L-1?

Anyway, just did an ISO of Benmage. His first few posts are about as obvscum as you can get. First, he complains about not being scum (yeah... right...). Then he says we should not use one of our lynches, which is a terrible idea, and then he immediately changes his mind when someone calls him on it, as if he didn't know.

Benmage wrote:It was null. It was filler. Therefore it was scummy and not helpful for the town.

Null =/= scummy. Null = null.
VOTE: Benmage

Elmo wrote:

Mina wrote:

I am Innocent, to Benmage wrote:Information Instead of Analysis? I analyzed the one thing worth analyzing so far. Your initial scummy plan. Yeah you nixed it, after you were called on it. I just took the call on it and completely blew it up in your face.

Elmo,

where the hell

did you get the idea that I am Innocent had missed that post in the first place? Again, why are you making excuses for him instead of reading the thread?

I'm not sure what you're objecting to ("again"?) - reread my #69? My view is that IAI missed post #13, not post #9. I don't see anything that contradicts that, and IAI saying Ben nixed it

after

he was called out directly implies that, to me. (I think it's clear by now that IAI is not terribly precise in what he says, e.g. referring to the plan as 'scummy' when he thinks people who propose it are mostly townies.)

Furcolow wrote:

I Am Innocent wrote:Ben, I really do think you are townie.

As of post #70, you can REALLY BELIEVE SOMEONE IS A TOWNIE?
I'm not fucking buying this

I believed Benmage is town, perhaps even earlier than that. Do you think there's a problem with that?

It depends on the circumstances. In a game like this, I actually do. Keep your town reads to yourself.

Nikanor wrote:

RedCoyote wrote:Is it a coincidence that you're already voting him or not?

No, I'm a day cop. jasonT is mafia.

is this serious?

a) Why? x2
b) That doesn't really respond to the point - why aren't you now saying the same thing about me?

because if you say "this person is townie" that helps scum pick out pr
if you say "this person is a PR" well......
it's lose/lose on day 1

it's not as bad when you parrot, because someone has already forced that, but it is still bad because the more scum see a consensus among the uninformed, the more they will be willing to trust that read theirselves

also, the town seems really really split on benmage

There appear to be two separate points. One is that IAI said Benmade was a townie, which is fine, seeing as there are only vanilla townies and mafia in this game; that's just another way of saying he had a town read.
Another is you telling me to keep my town reads quiet, which you haven't responded to.

Elmo wrote:b) That doesn't really respond to the point - why aren't you now saying the same thing about me?

still.

Elmo wrote:There appear to be two separate points. One is that IAI said Benmade was a townie, which is fine, seeing as there are only vanilla townies and mafia in this game; that's just another way of saying he had a town read.
Another is you telling me to keep my town reads quiet, which you haven't responded to.

Elmo wrote:b) That doesn't really respond to the point - why aren't you now saying the same thing about me?

still.

oh. i didnt know there were only townies and mafia.
i feel like an idiot.
im glad you told me that.

in that case, i retract my point. town reads =/= PR reads
i believe locke is town

Red wrote:I'm serious, Nikanor. Your original vote could easily be mistaken for an RVS vote.

My first vote was random. Now it is serious business. Why does it matter?
And no I am not seriously claiming day cop.

Does nobody love me? I am so very lonely here on my wagon of one. I wish I had someone to hold me in their arms and tell me that everything is going to be alright.
I could also hop on the RedCoyote wagon. The lack of votes on him is weird considering the number of people who find him suspicious.

Furcolow wrote:

Nikanor wrote:

RedCoyote wrote:Is it a coincidence that you're already voting him or not?

No, I'm a day cop. jasonT is mafia.

is this serious?

flat out lie. He is not a day cop.. If he was, he would know my proper role and not that I am mafia.

ok, i see above he is lying.... Im happy with my vote. A claim like that could have outted a real cop.

you say your vote aint random and its down to business... with a fake cop claim? if its serious... present your case and defend your lies, scum!

jasonT1981 wrote:ok,

i see above he is lying

.... Im happy with my vote. A claim like that could have outted a real cop.

Shouldn't you already know he was lying? What did you see?

Well, he admitted to lying... thats what I meant by I see he is lying. Refer to my first post on the matter with my vote.

jasonT1981 wrote:Well, he admitted to lying... thats what I meant by I see he is lying.

That's a pretty weird way of putting it. Why did you say that instead of "he even admits to lying" or something?

Nikanor wrote:

Red wrote:I'm serious, Nikanor. Your original vote could easily be mistaken for an RVS vote.

My first vote was random. Now it is serious business. Why does it matter?
And no I am not seriously claiming day cop.

Does nobody love me? I am so very lonely here on my wagon of one. I wish I had someone to hold me in their arms and tell me that everything is going to be alright.
I could also hop on the RedCoyote wagon. The lack of votes on him is weird considering the number of people who find him suspicious.

everything is going to be alright.
it's not your fault.

Elmo wrote:

jasonT1981 wrote:Well, he admitted to lying... thats what I meant by I see he is lying.

That's a pretty weird way of putting it. Why did you say that instead of "he even admits to lying" or something?

I thought it was implied. It made sense to me.

i feel like the way he worded it was more to AVOID confusion from you picking at semantics

jason wrote:you say your vote aint random and its down to business... with a fake cop claim? if its serious... present your case and defend your lies, scum!

I did present my case. Do you even realize that it's a vanilla game?
How am I scummier than Elmo?

perhaps it would be best if we all listed 13 town and 3 scum

OK lets break it down....
You really aint made much of a case though, you have mentioned me really mostly in passing

Nikanor wrote:
The jasonwagonofone needs more love. This is just terrible, and this combined with jason's attacks on IAI makes jason obvscum. More votes over here please.


The way Elmo said it.. it sounded like he already knew allignment with the pretty obiviously mistaken if they think they are scum comment.

I stand by my post in 98.. I feel they are valid points.

my 'attacks' on IAI as you say I feel are valid, he spent more time leading direction away from sdcum hunting and towards facts and figures etc. I feel that is anti-town as taking away from scum hunting only helps scum.

Nikanor wrote:

RedCoyote wrote:Is it a coincidence that you're already voting him or not?

No, I'm a day cop. jasonT is mafia.

We know this is a lie anyway...

Nikanor wrote:

jason wrote:you say your vote aint random and its down to business... with a fake cop claim? if its serious... present your case and defend your lies, scum!

I did present my case. Do you even realize that it's a vanilla game?
How am I scummier than Elmo?

I realize that now, I am in a few games atm as well as modding and it didnt registered at the time of post that it was all vanilla setup with 3 goons, my vote was based on your rolecop claim, claiming me as scum.. at the time I thought you were being serious and I had not realized it was all vanilla. I knew you were wrong with your claim that I am scum and voted you thinking it was a flat out scum lie. I actually thought you were seriously claiming rolecop with a guilty on me and knew (at the time) you were lying about it)

my vote was based on that, realizing the game is all vanilla... I will go back to my previous vote