Mafiascum.net

↑ StrangerCoug wrote:

Venrob (2): Cheery Dog, Paschendale, Wiibox3
Not voting (3): jambecca, Venrob

?

↑ nhammen wrote:And now you are just making things up. You had a null read on me when I voted you. How can you POSSIBLY construe that as OMGUS?

Because I expressed suspicion of you and I was the first player to do so.

also, nh, your thoughts on venrob?

You only expressed suspicion of me AFTER I voted for you. There is NO WAY that what I did can be called OMGUS.

As for Venrob, I'm not sure. His play is more "village idiot" than legitimately scummy as far as I can see. So far my read on him is null.

and your vote is still on me, that's my point. do you honestly think i'm the scummiest player right now? if not, your vote is in the wrong place.

Ok. Hello everyone, I'm Johnny. I'm one of your SE's. Generally SE's are not here to teach, but I'll answer any questions directed at me. You have my word that I will not lie to you unless your question directly affects my win condition. Above all else, though, I'm here to win.

Anyways, I will now spoiler every thought that goes through my head as I read through the thread. There'll probably be a tl;dr after, but I'll make no promises. You'll also forgive me if I repeat anything that someone has already said.

Open with two random votes, null.

My replacee asks the kind of RQ's that I hate. I'm not answering them and I advise you all call someone out next time they ask such useless questions.

An IC I haven't played with this'll be fun

The first vote that doesn't seem to be random from MissMaggot. She refuses the RQs, I like her.

nhammen asks GOOD RQs. I'll be watching to make sure they are answered. (Even though two of them are aimed at my former self -.-)

I admire nhammen's candor and honesty here. I hope he isn't scum.

17 is another good post from MM

gahh my former self talked a lot. I especially dislike 20. SE's should know better.

Town points for Happy Canine. 23 is good.

Town points along with good reasoning. MM has to be town.

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:I didn't want to look all OMGUS. lol. Since it's random voting time I chose Nekoko.

NO. Town don't worry about looking scummy. Bad wiibox. Bad.

Fluff too? I'm not sure I like Wiibox.

nhammen took care of my last two points immediately -.-

33 has me thinking that maybe wii is more newbie than scummy...

ewo comes late to the party and only repeats other people stating that his top scumreads are the top two wagons. Convenient.

↑ Venrob wrote:Well im late. Seems 2 good places to put my vote, both ill have an explaination for...

IC bw, just for being an IC. IC makes good town, but much better scum!

RQS starter bw.
RQS-RANDOM QUESTIONING STAGE
RQS can help the maf in more ways than are obvious.
1.Questions on playstyle for one: maf might look at their answer, maybe find something off from how they are playing? People play different with different roles. Maf might sniff out a power role!
2.Answers containing accidental softclaims:
Not often, but ive seen RQS with an unintentional softclaim, then the maf killed them. Doctor died that way.

Out of these BW's, i go with 2.

Vote: Nekoko

THIS IS AN L-1 VOTE.
if i counted right.

This post is a meeeeeeeeeeeessss. Not killing the IC for no reason. Just sheeping is a bad idea. There's just nothing good in this post.

The subsequent vote by glad pooch and questioning by my past self are to be expected.

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:As for the point of not supporting a wagon before everyone has posted yet, I thought I was pretty clear as to why I didn't, though you said it was a scummy reason. But one thing I have learned from my last couple games is that it is that scum likes to try and make town players look scummy early in the first day. This same thing happened in my last game here on mafiascum that one of the SEs called me scummy for voting an OMGUS vote in the RVS, he turned out to be Mafia in the end.

OMGUS by itself is a pretty weak accusation of scum. Even weaker if you own up to it. Never let that scare you away from voting or pressuring someone.

Rob's noisy... I can't really tell if this act is genuine...

Pasche, as your co-SE, I gotta say 50's accusation doesn't hold much water. It's pretty common for newbies to focus on every little thing that deals with them, so accusing one of making a big deal out of the closest thing to a quality accusation against her looks more like you're trying to paint a red "S" on her now rather that the lower case "n" that her response actually deserves. Also that last sentence just screams "I'm gonna bring this up again later and try to get you killed for it."

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:@ Paschendale - Giving SE advice to us newbies is nice, but that last post was a downright scummy way of doing it. Thanks for the info, but jeez.

Why is 53 scummy?

nhammen, 57 caused me to notice that you haven't actually taken a stance on anyone yet. Your votes are only pressure votes so far and you haven't outwardly stated any opinion. Would you like to? (That's nice guy talk for gimme your reads. Ignore this if you actually did later)
Also you mentioned what I did about ewo earlier. How can I be the cool smart guy if you're takin all my thunder?

Pasche, you're not committing to any stances. It's annoying.

ewo comes in and says everything I've been saying about Pasche. Frick. I may not have many original thoughts by the end of this read. BUT! You're reads have changed again to match the biggest wagons.

70 from Pasche isn't good. Denies being wishy-washy, which is wrong. Tries to refute MM's "scripted" comment even though it's not all that big a deal. Calls it a "baseless attack" when really he could have ignored it and I wouldn't have even looked twice. Overdefensive SE's smell funny.

And 74 is trying to discredit those that suspect him. Pasche is looking like he'll get my vote by the end of this.

And now we're pushing what looks like an angry newbie? As scum? THE SCUMMIEST to top it off?

*sigh* Once again nhammen comes in and steals my comment about ewo. Oh well. Also, what's the point of indulging Pasche's weak little defense with that rule confirmation?

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:I happen to find this bit of your post to be the scummiest sentence so far this game, but it's not enough for me to move my vote.

But no vote?

84 seems a bit opportunistic from wiibox, but I may wait on that to see how rob reacts.

grrr 85 is irking me. "Too early" doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. If you found my slot scummy, you should have voted it. Clearly it's not a great read if you're that cautious. Also, what moved Maggot from "Town" to "Null" in your reads?

86 just seems condescending from Pasche. "I don't want to kill her, I just want her to know she's wrong"? Who was making a big deal out of this again?

This talk about the scumQT is relatively useless and I'm kind of annoyed that it took up half a page.

95 is WIFOMing hard, but it's decently unlikely that he would have made such a big deal about scum not being able to talk when in fact they could. My vote goes somewhere else.

nhammen actually explains his stance for the first time in 99 and takes care of my question to upbeat mutt. I obviously agree with his vote to ewo as I've basically mirrored his thoughts above.

Rob chimes in with a courtesy unvote when I get here. Nice, but I would have preferred the vote go somewhere else.

[url-http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4289500]110[/url] from ewo is iffy. I agree that nhammen deserves a vote, but definitely not for not knowing the rules. I believe this is his first game as an IC, so not knowing the entire setup isn't exactly a punish-worthy offense.

Rob posts a defense without voting. I'm beginning to think he may be scum.

Pashce thinks I'm a good target.

I couldn't have put this better myself. Merry Pug is the townest of the players.

MM's 114 and 118 are just intimidating. You'll scare us helpless replacements away

*whew* That was fun. Surprising amount of content for D1. I like it.

tl;dr:

MM, Cheery Dog
Pasche, wii, jambecca, rob

Pasche seemed really scummy to me before it was revealed that he was straight up wrong about his ridiculous argument with MM. I'm not willing to dispel all suspicion, but I do acknowledge that he's a lot less suspicious now.

Rob is teetering between newbtown and null-scum for me. We'll see once Jambecca posts and he has no more excuses. Unless he really impresses me, I'd actually be fine with a policy lynch.

ewo, nhammen

ewo and nhammen are not partners, but one of them is probably scum. I'm not confident pinning down the partner just yet.

nhammen is doing what skilled scum often do: ask a lot of questions without actually taking many stances. Quick, somebody tell me what he thinks of anybody not called rob or ewo? you can't.

VOTE: nhammen

As for ewo, I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said.

Okay, okay. I've been very busy, busy, busy. Don't ask me why I took this spot. I have band camp, my cousins are out, and homework. I'll try to catch up on this soon.

So, I quickly skimmed through the game. I agree above with either nhammen or ewo is scum, and that they're not together, but nhammen's play is much more townlike, although mafia IC's probably play townlike, I still find ewo scummier overall. I'll look at ewo in isolation now.

Eh I take that back FML. I will look into this more sometime....... not tomorrow, I don't know, sometime. I will be back

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:nhammen is doing what skilled scum often do: ask a lot of questions without actually taking many stances. Quick, somebody tell me what he thinks of anybody not called rob or ewo? you can't.

I set out to answer this question. I think he's pretty much said I'm town, which Ewo has also done. But other than that... you're right. There's two total posts dealing with Wiibox, his previous vote target. Other than that... it's questions. Lots of questions and seldom a comment on the answer. Except for Ewo. I'm not sure if that's scum play or just cautious town play. I think Ewo's vote on Nhammen is much more suspicious, though. Ewo first claims that NH's vote on him is OMGUS, which is really not particularly scummy. Townies do it all the time. Especially when they think that the case against them is false and is attempting to lead to a mislynch. Then he says that asking the mod to clarify a rule, and citing another rule is somehow scummy. Wtf? Reading the rules is scummy? Ewo and Nhammen are both being very evasive and getting into a tussle and accusing each other of largely the same transgressions.

So, Johnny, what do you make of Ewo and Nhammen's votes for each other? Nhammen's at least comes with some evidence. Ewo's looks like intentional attempts to spin innocent acts into scumtells. How does that square with your thoughts that Nhammen is scum but Ewo isn't?

Also,
I don't think we're lynching Venrob anytime soon.

↑ nhammen wrote:

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:I just looked in your threads (on this site) and found that you were in newbie 1265, though I notice you were replaced out, it does show how you started another game as town.

It looks to me like his play in that game (where he is town) closely matched his play here. Other than the lurking from Tuesday to Saturday anyways.

But he does say he plays the same way as both. <_<

I'll probably re-examine my vote later when I have more time.

↑ ewo2 wrote:In post 119, Wiibox3 wrote:Maybe, or this could be a very good scum play. He may have read the rules closely and noticed pre-day 1 talk was only mentioned in the PM. So if someone asked the mod, or noticed the PM he could say he totally missed it. This would be a great way to clear him in the eyes of the town.



That would be a huge stretch.

I really don't think so. In my first game I played, scum did some setups that involved rules. If you are interested:
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=145027 You can see my first game of Mafia, and my only game so far as Scum.

↑ nhammen wrote:

↑ Wiibox3 wrote:Maybe, or this could be a very good scum play. He may have read the rules closely and noticed pre-day 1 talk was only mentioned in the PM. So if someone asked the mod, or noticed the PM he could say he totally missed it. This would be a great way to clear him in the eyes of the town.

Are you worried about the possibility of Pasch being semi-confirmed?

The more confirmed townies the better. I'm not sure how you can be semi-confirmed. Plus I'm not sure what you expected to get out of this question.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:Why is 53 scummy?

Because it looked a lot like bread crumbing. Let me show you what I mean.

↑ Paschendale wrote:think I'd be making a mistake in pursuing a lynch on you... which is why I didn't vote for you.

But trust me, a lot of townies are going to suspect you for things you don't think you're doing. And they're going to vote for you. And they're going to lynch you.

This looked like he was trying to create some sort of suspicion on MM by other players. Not something he would pursue on day one, but later on in the game. That's why I found it scummy.

↑ jambecca wrote:So, I quickly skimmed through the game. I agree above with either nhammen or ewo is scum, and that they're not together, but nhammen's play is much more townlike, although mafia IC's probably play townlike, I still find ewo scummier overall. I'll look at ewo in isolation now.

What are your reasons you find them scummy? Anything other than what's been said so far?

Wii is now town. I was just a bit confused because "breadcrumbing" to me is when a PR leaves hints about his role or their targets in-thread. But yes, that does make sense. Plus he actually read all of my thoughts.

@Pasche, ewo's reasons make might make sense from a newbie perspective even if I don't agree with them. If you read my thoughts about the thread you would see that his most recent case against or wonderful IC is something I particularly disagree with. Right now, though, I'd rather get a wagon going on nhammen for lack of content rather than ewo for methods I disagree with.

Didn't even know that was a rule. My bad.

At least I'm notthe only one who noticed how hostile Pasch was being towards me.

Johnny, your proposing of a policy lynch bothers me. A policy lynch tells us practically nothing about the interactions of players and what they mean. It only gives the town less information and speeds up to the night phase for the mafia.

A few points have been brought up that I think strengthen my witheld case, and I will be reviewing things with these new thoughts in mind. I'd like to come to my own conclusions about it, though.

I'm not as active as I'd like to be right now because school is eating my life.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:I happen to find this bit of your post to be the scummiest sentence so far this game, but it's not enough for me to move my vote.

But no vote?

I said in that same post that it wasn't enough to vote my vote, treat it as a FoS if you like.
Why are you suggesting I should have contradicted myself and actually voted?

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:

↑ Cheery Dog wrote:I happen to find this bit of your post to be the scummiest sentence so far this game, but it's not enough for me to move my vote.

But no vote?

I said in that same post that it wasn't enough to vote my vote, treat it as a FoS if you like.
Why are you suggesting I should have contradicted myself and actually voted?

I saw the first answer. Sorry for the repetition. If I were here when you said it, I would have humbly suggested that the person who does the scummiest thing in the thread does, in fact, deserve a vote. But, that's in the past now.

Just looked at the votecount.

And then there was inactivity. -.-

↑ ewo2 wrote:and your vote is still on me, that's my point. do you honestly think i'm the scummiest player right now? if not, your vote is in the wrong place.

↑ nhammen wrote:First off, your reads have been repeatedly been perfectly aligned with the largest wagons in the game. Scum sometimes use this tactic as a way to hide from the town. They don't have to give real reads; all they have to do is agree with the town, and A) they don't have to put as much effort into looking townie, because they are following real townies, B) they don't have to put as much effort into faking reads, because the reads are all right there for them. Secondly, you gave a whole list of reasons why your read on wiibox became a nullread, and then used this as your reason for unvoting nekoko. This indicates to me that you forgot who you were actually voting for. And I do not see any townie forgetting who they are voting for like that.

Short answer: at the time of this post of yours, yes, you were the scummiest player in the game as far as I could tell. That is mainly because on D1 we have little info to go on, so even someone who is only somewhat scummy can be the scummiest player but there it is.

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:nhammen, 57 caused me to notice that you haven't actually taken a stance on anyone yet. Your votes are only pressure votes so far and you haven't outwardly stated any opinion. Would you like to? (That's nice guy talk for gimme your reads. Ignore this if you actually did later)

↑ JohnnyFarrar wrote:nhammen is doing what skilled scum often do: ask a lot of questions without actually taking many stances. Quick, somebody tell me what he thinks of anybody not called rob or ewo? you can't.

Imma go iso myself to prove you wrong. One moment.

↑ nhammen wrote:Both Wiibox and Paschendale are slightly scummy (but it is very slight) because they avoided voting for the competing wagons after I said that the competing wagons would help us find scum. Additionally MissMaggot's reactions are every transparent, so I give her major townpoints. CheeryDog asked a very relevant question which gives minor townpoints.

Note: this is before #57, where you said that I have not given any reads yet.

↑ nhammen wrote:The reason it seems scum motivated is because your reason for not voting MissMaggot was to avoid the attention that comes from OMGUS. Scum want to avoid attention more than town.

↑ nhammen wrote:Your scumreads just happen to match the two people with random wagons on them? Seems a little bit scummy. But not much yet. Why choose Nekoko over Wiibox?

Post 99 which you commented on, so I don't need to say anything.
And 102 gives my read on Pasch.

Thus, I have given the following reads before your post:
Town: MissMaggot, CheeryDog, Pasch
Null: Venrob
Scum: wiibox, ewo

The only 2 people I did not give reads on were the two people who were replaced. Thus, your allegation is false.
Note: So far I still agree with the reads I have given up to now.

Well, I honestly feel like I know nothing about this game. Not starting from the start really throws me off.