Mafiascum.net

In post 123, Pjovek wrote:I don't know, why don't you tell me what flavor scum is actually looking for? :3

Chocolate Vanilla Swirl Cupcake Maker Pokemon

Pjovek wrote:On one side, we got the fabricated looking townread on MattP
On the other side, we got the "scumslip"

These contradict each other in conclusion, since, assuming Eggplant flips scum, the fabricated townread on Matt would mean Matt being town, while the slip would obviously mean he talked with Matt in the scumQT, making matt scum.

Scum slips by mentioning something from QT
Scum fabricates townread on partner
I don't see the problem

In post 124, Tierce wrote:

In post 116, Pjovek wrote:

In post 115, Tierce wrote:Pjovek--walk me through the thought process of writing Post 16.

Not yet, no.
Suffice to say I was feeling a bit lazy.

Also I'd like to note that I never asked for a massclaim. Just a claim of really minor flavor. Not even rolenames or anything. Really minor. I honestly didn't (and don't) see the harm in it.

My main concern is the inherent risk involved in making a post like that. You appear to be an intelligent player (trolling notwithstanding), and there is an immediate risk that someone

will

think it's not a big deal indeed and start claiming info about their character. I expect you to be aware of this risk--so why take it?

Putting things simply: the scum might know which character is the Apocalypse one. Revealing universes/continuity might help them. Why do you think this is a risk worth taking, either in a trolling form ("let's see who jumps on this!") or genuinely thinking a partial flavor claim is something we should do?


PEdit: I don't see how scum having a fabricated Townread on anyone makes the second person Town.

The thing is, IF scum have additional information on the nature of this role (and we don't know that), then I would expect them to also have some kind of flavor-checking power to look for it directly.
Like a rolecop, just for flavor, I guess.
And that is if the assumption is correct.

Which means if just the universes are claimed, scum still need to investigate people seperatly for exact rolenames (no harm done).

If that is the case, and this is a rather flavor-heavy game, then I would also expect this role to have a sensible fakeclaim.

So, even under this assumption, I don't see too much of harm that may befall us.


A scum-made townread can have basically two motivations: either it's a townread on a scumbuddy to tone down suspicion on him (there was no substantial suspicion on matt at that time, so this is not the case), or it's a "buddying attempt", for lack of a better word. Basically a "look at how cool and correct my reads are, scum would never be this cool and correct"
This specific situation looks more like the second.
Keep in mind that scum already know who is town. (or not-scum at least)
In that situation, it is not rare to see people come to "correct" conclusions for bogus reasons, since the correct conclusion is already known, and only really good scumplayers put in the raw effort to fabricate a logical and sound argument for their conclusion.
It's an ends-justify-the-means thing, where they will say "but I was right so it was not wrong!"

And as a general tendency, weaker mafia players (under which category i'm already putting Eggplant considering that if he's mafia he just made a pretty newbie mistake) are also more reluctant to post a read of any nature of their buddies. They basically mistake "distancing" for "not interacting".

Looking at the situation at hand, by association it would make matt likely town, but this is what it is, preflip associations.
I don't generally like those, but they're kinda relevant in this case.

In post 126, Pjovek wrote:A scum-made townread can have basically two motivations: either it's a townread on a scumbuddy to tone down suspicion on him (there was no substantial suspicion on matt at that time, so this is not the case), or it's a "buddying attempt", for lack of a better word. Basically a "look at how cool and correct my reads are, scum would never be this cool and correct"
This specific situation looks more like the second.

I don't think either of them are scum, but I've seen plenty of scum giving their scumbuddies a Townread from the get go. It's easier to prevent suspicion from ever arising than having to fight it back down later.


We have no guarantees there will be more than a character from a given universe. Even if there are multiples, claiming them will still help scum narrow things down, if they have any kind of info in the role in question.

Say Player A claims "Chronicles of Amber", Player B claims "Fire Emblem", Player C claims "Metamafia". If the scum know the Apocalypse role comes from Fire Emblem, they know A and C are likely not to be it and there is a very high chance that B is. It's a risk that is not worth taking for Town, and definitely not just for "fun" or at this stage of the game.

In post 127, Tierce wrote:

In post 126, Pjovek wrote:A scum-made townread can have basically two motivations: either it's a townread on a scumbuddy to tone down suspicion on him (there was no substantial suspicion on matt at that time, so this is not the case), or it's a "buddying attempt", for lack of a better word. Basically a "look at how cool and correct my reads are, scum would never be this cool and correct"
This specific situation looks more like the second.

I don't think either of them are scum, but I've seen plenty of scum giving their scumbuddies a Townread from the get go.

It's easier to prevent suspicion from ever arising

than having to fight it back down later.

Except this doesn't happen, especially if you put zero effort and explanation into giving out this read.

I almost never see mafia do this tbh.

Then again, on my homesite, mafia don't give townreads to their scumbuddies at all, unless they play REALLY baller and get strongly misread by the majority of town already.
And even then, some weak and subtle suspicion you put on them works far better for at least one of the parties involved.

Maybe mafiascum is different in that regard.
I know I was very surprised when the two scum defended each other hardcore in the newbie I played (that was after i had already replaced out), right down to the noose, right after the situation was already unsalvageable.
But I didn't think newbies were too indicative of global site meta.

tl;dr: atm I might be WIFOMing myself into thinking a scumtell is not a scumtell because scum wouldn't tell scumtells.

That, or Eggplant is town.

Decisions, decisions.

~Vote Count III

Whimsical Eggplant (3)

~ Zdenek, Katsuki, enomis,

(Syryana)

Zachrulez (3)

~ implosion, Tierce, Syryana

fferyllt (1)

~ MattP,

(Syryana)

Tammy (1)

~ Whimsical Eggplant

Tierce (1)

~ Oversoul

MattP (1)

~ Tammy

Pjovek (1)

~ Zachrulez

Not Voting:

(enomis,)

fferyllt,

(implosion,)

Pjovek, sword_of_omens,

(Tierce,)

mrbungle

In post 93, Syryana wrote:Pedit: Zdenek. Why would scum want to push something obviously scum? That would be the height of dumbfuckery; "HAY GAIZ THERE'S A ROLE OUT THERE THAT DOES GOOD THINGS FOR SCUM LET'S ALL OUT OUR FLAVOR INFO SO IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR THE SCUM TO FIND IT" So I ask you; why would scum not think releasing flavor information is a bad idea?

I see any comment in the scum-qt about this going something like: "town will be on the look-out for people trying to fish for people's flavour, so we should be careful not to do things that could appear to be flavour fishing," and not like "I think its a bad idea for us to flavour claim." The difference in the conversations makes me think that it's a mistake that scum is unlikely to make, and that it's more likely that Whimsy just invented the reason for his MattP town-rea with the scum-motivation being to buddy MattP directly, and indirect buddy Oversoul by agreeing with him on a read.

It's not impossible for MattP and Whimsy to be buddies, but my feeling is that at that moment, at the start of the game and under no pressure, that scum is not likely to give a false reason for read a buddy - it's something they are usually more careful about.

In post 106, Zachrulez wrote:It featured the scum pushing a mass claim on day 1 and getting away with it. Seeing that kind of action again in another theme game, and nothing from Pjovek's iso to indicate to me that he's town, I'm more than fine to say DIESCUMDIE as of this 5 minutes.

Well, he's pushing for us to claim a small part of our flavour, which is potentially anti-town, but it's definitely not him pushing for mass-claim, so you're blowing this out of proportion.

In post 128, Pjovek wrote:

In post 127, Tierce wrote:

In post 126, Pjovek wrote:A scum-made townread can have basically two motivations: either it's a townread on a scumbuddy to tone down suspicion on him (there was no substantial suspicion on matt at that time, so this is not the case), or it's a "buddying attempt", for lack of a better word. Basically a "look at how cool and correct my reads are, scum would never be this cool and correct"
This specific situation looks more like the second.

I don't think either of them are scum, but I've seen plenty of scum giving their scumbuddies a Townread from the get go.

It's easier to prevent suspicion from ever arising

than having to fight it back down later.

Except this doesn't happen, especially if you put zero effort and explanation into giving out this read.

I almost never see mafia do this tbh.

Then again, on my homesite, mafia don't give townreads to their scumbuddies at all, unless they play REALLY baller and get strongly misread by the majority of town already.
And even then, some weak and subtle suspicion you put on them works far better for at least one of the parties involved.

Maybe mafiascum is different in that regard.
I know I was very surprised when the two scum defended each other hardcore in the newbie I played (that was after i had already replaced out), right down to the noose, right after the situation was already unsalvageable.
But I didn't think newbies were too indicative of global site meta.

Where I used to play it's quite rare for scum to give a townread on fellow scum, to the point where after scum flip you look closely at the player's null and scum reads. I have been really surprised at some of the fellow scum townreads I've seen from scum here. But, it's certainly not universal.

In post 114, Tierce wrote:implosion and Pjovek are bringing home the bacon.

VOTE: Zachrulez

You're making my notes very, very sad, Zach.

Pushing for a massclaim D1 is a specific situation that has nothing to do with Pjovek's behavior so far. Why are you trying to pin someone else's meta and somegame else's situation on him?


(Pregame QTs exist and Vi games have a tendency to have Daytalk for scum anyway.)


PEdit: Not really for that, it's easy to fake.

Without a given reason for doing so, I'm not going to let the action pass.

In post 124, Tierce wrote:

In post 116, Pjovek wrote:

In post 115, Tierce wrote:Pjovek--walk me through the thought process of writing Post 16.

Not yet, no.
Suffice to say I was feeling a bit lazy.

Also I'd like to note that I never asked for a massclaim. Just a claim of really minor flavor. Not even rolenames or anything. Really minor. I honestly didn't (and don't) see the harm in it.

My main concern is the inherent risk involved in making a post like that. You appear to be an intelligent player (trolling notwithstanding), and there is an immediate risk that someone

will

think it's not a big deal indeed and start claiming info about their character. I expect you to be aware of this risk--so why take it?

Putting things simply: the scum might know which character is the Apocalypse one. Revealing universes/continuity might help them. Why do you think this is a risk worth taking, either in a trolling form ("let's see who jumps on this!") or genuinely thinking a partial flavor claim is something we should do?


PEdit: I don't see how scum having a fabricated Townread on anyone makes the second person Town.

Hey Tierce the above consequences you listed are exactly why I'm voting him.

In post 131, Zdenek wrote:

In post 93, Syryana wrote:Pedit: Zdenek. Why would scum want to push something obviously scum? That would be the height of dumbfuckery; "HAY GAIZ THERE'S A ROLE OUT THERE THAT DOES GOOD THINGS FOR SCUM LET'S ALL OUT OUR FLAVOR INFO SO IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR THE SCUM TO FIND IT" So I ask you; why would scum not think releasing flavor information is a bad idea?

I see any comment in the scum-qt about this going something like: "town will be on the look-out for people trying to fish for people's flavour, so we should be careful not to do things that could appear to be flavour fishing," and not like "I think its a bad idea for us to flavour claim." The difference in the conversations makes me think that it's a mistake that scum is unlikely to make, and that it's more likely that Whimsy just invented the reason for his MattP town-rea with the scum-motivation being to buddy MattP directly, and indirect buddy Oversoul by agreeing with him on a read.

It's not impossible for MattP and Whimsy to be buddies, but my feeling is that at that moment, at the start of the game and under no pressure, that scum is not likely to give a false reason for read a buddy - it's something they are usually more careful about.

In post 106, Zachrulez wrote:It featured the scum pushing a mass claim on day 1 and getting away with it. Seeing that kind of action again in another theme game, and nothing from Pjovek's iso to indicate to me that he's town, I'm more than fine to say DIESCUMDIE as of this 5 minutes.

Well, he's pushing for us to claim a small part of our flavour, which is potentially anti-town, but it's definitely not him pushing for mass-claim, so you're blowing this out of proportion.

Even a partial claim on mass can be beneficial to scum. Even if it's not a mass claim of everything, it's still a type of massclaim he asked for.

Tierce why did you ignore my question to you earlier?

In post 134, Zachrulez wrote:

In post 124, Tierce wrote:

In post 116, Pjovek wrote:

In post 115, Tierce wrote:Pjovek--walk me through the thought process of writing Post 16.

Not yet, no.
Suffice to say I was feeling a bit lazy.

Also I'd like to note that I never asked for a massclaim. Just a claim of really minor flavor. Not even rolenames or anything. Really minor. I honestly didn't (and don't) see the harm in it.

My main concern is the inherent risk involved in making a post like that. You appear to be an intelligent player (trolling notwithstanding), and there is an immediate risk that someone

will

think it's not a big deal indeed and start claiming info about their character. I expect you to be aware of this risk--so why take it?

Putting things simply: the scum might know which character is the Apocalypse one. Revealing universes/continuity might help them. Why do you think this is a risk worth taking, either in a trolling form ("let's see who jumps on this!") or genuinely thinking a partial flavor claim is something we should do?


PEdit: I don't see how scum having a fabricated Townread on anyone makes the second person Town.

Hey Tierce the above consequences you listed are exactly why I'm voting him.

Hey Zach you did not mention this at all. You jumped on him immediately and, when asked, didn't explain your thought process, instead bringing up a completely unrelated situation with no relation to this game and playerlist. Forgive me if I'm not inclined to believe that Zach-Town would not push and prod instead of laying down a vote without any investigative push on your scumread.

Pjovek's request may not (does not) benefit Town, yet you still happily dumped a truckload of someone-else's-meta and somegame-else's-situation on him with no actual thinking from about and expressed in it. Dull, boring, lazy, and you're better than that.


PEdit: Probably because it was boring/incomprehensible. Be more entertaining and engaged and I might to do more than skim your posts.

In post 137, Tierce wrote:PEdit: Probably because it was boring/incomprehensible. Be more entertaining and engaged and I might to do more than skim your posts.

I mean, honestly, it's and you have an RVS vote on me still. Yawn.

In post 125, Syryana wrote:Chocolate Vanilla Swirl Cupcake Maker Pokemon

with Wings

Fixed th-
Oh shit.

In post 122, Pjovek wrote:On one side, we got the fabricated looking townread on MattP
On the other side, we got the "scumslip"

These contradict each other in conclusion, since, assuming Eggplant flips scum, the fabricated townread on Matt would mean Matt being town, while the slip would obviously mean he talked with Matt in the scumQT, making matt scum.

Agreeing with Syr and Tierce.

Why don't you think it makes sense for scum to use fake reasons to call people a particular alignment?

In post 138, Tierce wrote:

In post 137, Tierce wrote:PEdit: Probably because it was boring/incomprehensible. Be more entertaining and engaged and I might to do more than skim your posts.

I mean, honestly, it's

page 6

and you have an RVS vote on me still. Yawn.

It's only boring because you don't have an imagination.
Do you have a link to Mafia with the Kitties? I lost mine.

In post 139, Oversoul wrote:Do you have a link to Mafia with the Kitties? I lost mine.

http://notmafiascum.forumotion.com/f1-ongoing-games

What was the "question", and is it actually to this game?

In post 137, Tierce wrote:

In post 134, Zachrulez wrote:

In post 124, Tierce wrote:

In post 116, Pjovek wrote:

In post 115, Tierce wrote:Pjovek--walk me through the thought process of writing Post 16.

Not yet, no.
Suffice to say I was feeling a bit lazy.

Also I'd like to note that I never asked for a massclaim. Just a claim of really minor flavor. Not even rolenames or anything. Really minor. I honestly didn't (and don't) see the harm in it.

My main concern is the inherent risk involved in making a post like that. You appear to be an intelligent player (trolling notwithstanding), and there is an immediate risk that someone

will

think it's not a big deal indeed and start claiming info about their character. I expect you to be aware of this risk--so why take it?

Putting things simply: the scum might know which character is the Apocalypse one. Revealing universes/continuity might help them. Why do you think this is a risk worth taking, either in a trolling form ("let's see who jumps on this!") or genuinely thinking a partial flavor claim is something we should do?


PEdit: I don't see how scum having a fabricated Townread on anyone makes the second person Town.

Hey Tierce the above consequences you listed are exactly why I'm voting him.

Hey Zach you did not mention this at all. You jumped on him immediately and, when asked, didn't explain your thought process, instead bringing up a completely unrelated situation with no relation to this game and playerlist. Forgive me if I'm not inclined to believe that Zach-Town would not push and prod instead of laying down a vote without any investigative push on your scumread.

Pjovek's request may not (does not) benefit Town, yet you still happily dumped a truckload of someone-else's-meta and somegame-else's-situation on him with no actual thinking from

you

about

this game

and

this player

expressed in it. Dull, boring, lazy, and you're better than that.


PEdit: Probably because it was boring/incomprehensible. Be more entertaining and engaged and I might to do more than skim your posts.

I figured that my thought process would be obvious even if one didn't agree with my POV. Since you listed the potential consequences that shockingly DID enter my thought process, I found it prudent to reveal that yes, that is actually a part of my reasoning for the vote.

I brought up the other game to demonstrate that the action does have potential scum motivation and generally no town motivation if a damn good reason for proposing it isn't brought up with it... none of this vague "I have a good reason" bullshit. (My reference to the other game is to put context on the action being scummy, not a personal meta reference.)

I do notice the context you are trying to put my reference of meta into seems to be attempting to make my reference to it look really bad? Are you town? I'm curious.

In post 140, Tierce wrote:What was the "question", and is it actually relevant to this game?

The fact that you have to ask that.

But thank you

I forgot all the different people who played that game

In post 141, Zachrulez wrote:I do notice the context you are trying to put my reference of meta into seems to be attempting to make my reference to it look really bad?

It look bad, because you are using someone else's meta to try and apply it to Pjovek. If you want to meta , then by all means. If you want to show your frustration with a similar situation and how it affects your view of the current game because fool me once etc., then by all means. But you are taking the situation out of context, as it is not a similar game (due to the Apocalypse mechanic), the situation is not identical, and the players are not to be expected to act the same way.

I'll think over this some more over'night'.

In post 141, Zachrulez wrote:Are you town? I'm curious.

Yes, and obvious, at that. ^__^


So Oversoul, there isn't any sort of question, and the link isn't doing anything for you. Mind actually bothering with game, now?

In post 110, fferyllt wrote:

In post 99, Syryana wrote:

In post 98, MattP wrote:1) Im happy you're townreading people but don't set a precedent for stupidity, syryana respects you a lot and if you keep doing that he may start making reads lists

Reads lists!

Town: Tammy, Tierce, Enomis

Probably Town: Zdenek

Not Town: Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo

No clue: Errbody else

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

aaand probtown on Pjo.

I think Zach's points against pjo are legit. I also believe that scum will push anti-town plans, and that's not a meta-thing, just a scummy thing. On the other hand, I'd expect scum-pjo to have pushed it with more of a singular focus, rather than also making a made up reads list at the same time. It's more gambitty things than I'd expect from scum at one time. I should point out that I don't like pjo's overtly "logical" post discrediting the reasons behind the Whimsical Eggplant votes - it's just too incorrect.

mrbungle made a couple posts when there were things to talk about - he vote ffrey for no apparent reason, called the (I think) conversation between Tammy and Syry a circle jerk, and then unvoted ffrey when she said that lynching her would be dumb. - his failure to comment on things is scummy.

In post 112, Pjovek wrote:
@Katsuki, do you like playing scum?
yes/no question.

Depends on the quality of my scumbuddies.

In post 109, Syryana wrote:

In post 107, Katsuki wrote:I wonder.

What do you think of Mattp and the slip from Whimsical that Enomis pointed out?

Skimmed, didn't bother reading it in depth. Doesn't matter since I already had him down as scum.

Don't really care to state my thoughts on matt. Not to you at least.