Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:53 pm
And if you really want me to bore ya, ask me about my 'head vs gut' theory ![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
Uhhh...ok? Is it a crime to change playstyle because of bad town play previous game? I don't think so. And if that's really the only basis that you have then I'm sorry your read on me is invalid. Please try again Fegelein.In post 126, Fegelein wrote:I can chalk up a James May and Nacho scum team here,James for saying "I'm changing my playstyle because I screwed up last time" screams scum, and Nacho's play correlates with his scum meta.
I might be relying on emotional tells too much, but in this post Gen_Wolf appears to be:In post 121, Gen_Wolf wrote:This is starting to bug me and I will finally say something. Miss Stranger, a lot of what you are saying is based on if's, and a lot of these 'if's' revolve around me. Firstly, IF Gen_Wolf is scum then Feel It is town and vice versa. Secondly, 'If' Gen is scum then Champ is next inline.
My grievances with this are, firstly, you are already playing Day 2. You are so sure that I am going to flip scum that when I don't you are going to be taking two steps back and thus not only would you have wasted day 1 but you will be spending day 2 starting a fresh. I am not saying that voting me is wrong, if you feel I am the most scummiest of players then please lay your vote down on me. However, what I do ask is stop making assumptions based on me being scum because I can promise you it is wrong and it will be a detriment to town inevitably. Thus, all I ask is play the game now for Day 1. If I do get voted off, then start making your decisions based on solid facts because you will know my alignment and thus there will be no need to speculate.
See, this feels better than "James May acknoledges changing playstyle, which is very scummy, and Nacho is playing his scum meta". What is scummy about James May and how is Nacho's town meta different from his scum meta?In post 158, Fegelein wrote:Why do I feel Derivan is scum?
He makes really long-winded posts which personally appear to me as contrived, and he's fence sitting, locking himself down into ultra defence, without throwing down any vote. He seems to be keen only to advance his own agendas in the game atm.
Also, goodmorning, you've still avoided to say why I am scum.
Well because most people would probably assume that I was scum at that game. Also, I've never rolled scum once through out my entire mafia/werewolf game and if you wish to see the games that I have played on the site that I come from then I am more than happy to post them here.In post 100, Gen_Wolf wrote:Mr May, why do you feel the need to express you were townie in that game, in particular. Surely, it is irrelevant? Yet you still need to mention it?In post 74, James May wrote:Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynch that costed me the game >_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)
Please refer to Miss Stranger's post belowIn post 113, champinoman wrote:*IF* you are town and you manage to either get yourself lynched or nightkilled wouldn't you prefer that you helped out before dying?In post 74, James May wrote:Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynchthat costed me the game>_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)
And the bolded part is interesting. You know that you, as a dead townie (in that game), still win if town wins right? This is a team game not a solo quest.
Also, that mislynch that happened, on the next day phase I got insta'd & town lost the game. That's what I meant by costing me the game.In post 115, Miss Stranger wrote:No. He said he was trigger happy and mislynched and lost the game. You read the entire post wrong.
I'd have to look into champ later on via the ISOs. In regards to Nacho, the reason why I have doubts about him is because there's a possibility that he could be scum IC, but for me to fully understand everyone's gameplay I'd have to look through their most recent games either on here or on a different website where they come from. As for Generic, yes he is the strongest town read at this moment but like I said, who knows how it would go later on in the game. As for Gen Wolf, in my personal opinion, it's better to wait until we find a more solid basis to vote on him. Just like everyone else. Despite three days passed already, there's really not much ground to vote for anyone except for a few minor slips here and there.@James May:Good luck!In post 118, James May wrote:Guess I can give out my reads on those who I have a slight feeling on, skimming through this because I have finals on two of my classes this week so I do apologize for not being active.![]()
Editing... oh, you too? -_- Aaaanyway. I'm actually not pushing for a wagon on Gen_Wolf, but acknowledging that one has formed (FI, Nacho and Generic). The reason I'm holding my vote back is because IIn post 118, James May wrote:Miss Stranger: Aside from that minor derp up on the editing part, it seems like your leaning towards town atm, but I feel like you're being insistent on starting a wagon on gen wolf (although I may not be as experienced in this sort of scumreading/hunting as most people here) but we'll see how gen wolf goes on from this point.don'twant to vote Gen_Wolf just yet. He's now away which gives a good opportunity for Fegelein, Antagon and you to finally arrive on stage, and I also want to hear Champ's response.
What do you think makes him town and what causes doubts?In post 118, James May wrote:Nacho: Aside from the "backseat scumhunting" that Fegelin pointed out, I can't point out exactly where to place you in atm, leaning slightly towards town maybe.
IMO for now Generic is the strongest town lead I've seen.In post 118, James May wrote:Generic: So far providing interesting analysis upon other players on his first few posts, it looks like he's town at the moment but who knows, he could be playing a good scum cover-up, we'll see how it goes from there, as I haven't seen how his playstyle is, might look into previous games to find a good meta on him unless if its his first.
We established he commended on the result, not the remark, and the result made Feel It a pretty good dart target for Champ.In post 118, James May wrote:Gen wolf: Heh. Nice sarcastic remark in regards to simply lynching Miss Stranger. Not sure where Feel It (Was it Feel It? Might need to look through it again, but I think it was Feel It. if not was was Feglin) is going on with champin "buddying" you just for the compliment on that remark but i see little to no association with buddying/white knighting involving with that little agreement.
@James May:Curious why you haven't mentioned Champ this far, who seems to be digging on you quite a lot already.]
Cheers. You did just make me google search when Father's day is here in case I missed it though!In post 114, Generic wrote:Then I have an incorrect impression champino. I have looked at the DATE, it was Sunday... I'm a father if three... It was Father's Day on Sunday, so forgive my lack if interest in logging into this over enjoying family time.
I generally assume when I come in late to a lot of posts it's cos the majority of you are Americans. And I do work shifts, so expect very random posting times, but that wasnt the reason this time.
Firstly, I wasn't demanding an answer. I only repeated the question once as it appears it was glossed over.In post 115, Miss Stranger wrote:Why do you demand explanations about people's erratic sleep patterns? That's a ridiculous thing to hang on to. He joined the game later and briefly mentioned why. You are overweighting innocent actions.In post 113, champinoman wrote:One of your first posts, and my question:In post 78, Generic wrote:And what erratic sleep pattern?In post 55, champinoman wrote:...In post 51, Generic wrote:@champinoman, you guys had been on while I was asleep (I'm English) ...
...I'm waiting to hear your explanation because currently it seems like a pretty poorly constructed excuse.In post 113, champinoman wrote: ...
And a side note: Considering the game started at aprox 1pm (England time) and your first post was at 8.30pm why did you use being asleep as justification for not reading the first phase of voting?
Not really experienced but have read a few games. I participated in a game about a year ago, but the site died mid game and I struggled to get back into it after a month long break.In post 116, Generic wrote:I am enjoying champinos über paranoia at anything said. You are one of the more experienced players aren't you?
I will agree that I have questioned you more than any other in the game so far. However I would not say that this is because I think you are scummy. Quite the opposite in fact.In post 117, Generic wrote:Btw, something of note.
Champino has so far chose to dissect my posts to death, down to my comments on time and story time about my motives... Can't seem to find a single comment on gen wolf beyond him getting quite reactive when I pointed out his positive comment towards him.
In fact I find it hard to find a strong focus from him on anyone outside of me and feel it who both have put pressure on gen wolf. Only when directly referenced by miss stranger is she brought into the mix.
Potential links already.
Following on from my previous point; excluding what happened in the first 2 pages what reasons do you have for voting Gen_Wolf? I can't see any excluding those 2 pages which makes me wonder why you need to hear what others think about the issue before placing your vote. To me it looks like you are scared to look accountable if he flips town.In post 119, Miss Stranger wrote:Editing... oh, you too? -_- Aaaanyway. I'm actually not pushing for a wagon on Gen_Wolf, but acknowledging that one has formed (FI, Nacho and Generic). The reason I'm holding my vote back is because Idon'twant to vote Gen_Wolf just yet. He's now away which gives a good opportunity for Fegelein, Antagon and you to finally arrive on stage, and I also want to hear Champ's response.
In post 126, Fegelein wrote:I can chalk up a James May and Nacho scum team here, James for saying "I'm changing my playstyle because I screwed up last time" screams scum, and Nacho's play correlates with his scum meta.
So posting minimal amounts that don't contribute anything to scum hunting is enough to declare that he doesn't come across as scum? I'm glad you dropped in to share this gem.In post 126, Fegelein wrote:I think many of you are missing that it was an early town-read on Antagon, subject to change. TBH, Antagon doesn't come across as scum, despite his active lurking.
Hook. Line. and Sinker. And really fast too considering you have been nowhere to be found lately.In post 129, James May wrote:Uhhh...ok? Is it a crime to change playstyle because of bad town play previous game? I don't think so. And if that's really the only basis that you have then I'm sorry your read on me is invalid. Please try again Fegelein.In post 126, Fegelein wrote:I can chalk up a James May and Nacho scum team here,James for saying "I'm changing my playstyle because I screwed up last time" screams scum, and Nacho's play correlates with his scum meta.
Nope. If you're basing on that then I'm sorry you don't have a case against me other than what Feg mentioned. But seriously, try to have some logic in itIn post 135, champinoman wrote:Hook. Line. and Sinker. And really fast too considering you have been nowhere to be found lately.
Except I never voted Gen_Wolf if we exclude the joke RVS vote, so your question is first of all worded incorrectly. What I believe is scummy about him was first his odd behaviour during RVS, then his nervousness and poor explanations, and in general the clingy survival attitude he exhibits, which can have three possible explanations:Following on from my previous point; excluding what happened in the first 2 pages what reasons do you have for voting Gen_Wolf? I can't see any excluding those 2 pages which makes me wonder why you need to hear what others think about the issue before placing your vote. To me it looks like you are scared to look accountable if he flips town.
I do find everybody scummy and I think it would be unwise to think otherwise.In post 131, Miss Stranger wrote:Champinoman- For the most part he (used to) look fine. I don't like his obsession with slips. I await an explanation why they are so important to him. I also don't like his "you're scummy for attacking him/me" attitude. In general I get the impression he finds everybody scummy, which isn't quite useful, so I request a T/S list.
James May, I never said I thought you were scum. I merely said you feel for his bait which was almost completely unsubstantiated. But your lurking ways popped out again when I mentioned your nameIn post 136, James May wrote:Nope. If you're basing on that then I'm sorry you don't have a case against me other than what Feg mentioned. But seriously, try to have some logic in itIn post 135, champinoman wrote:Hook. Line. and Sinker. And really fast too considering you have been nowhere to be found lately.
No, it isn't. I was referring to the vote you intended to place if more people supported your cause. I clearly stated in the following sentence that your vote hadn't been placed yet.In post 137, Miss Stranger wrote:Except I never voted Gen_Wolf if we exclude the joke RVS vote, so your question is first of all worded incorrectly.
4) he's town and wants town to win. <--- 7 of us are playing this way but clearly not you.In post 137, Miss Stranger wrote:What I believe is scummy about him was first his odd behaviour during RVS, then his nervousness and poor explanations, and in general the clingy survival attitude he exhibits, which can have three possible explanations:
1) he believes he's too valuable an asset to the town
2) he's scum
3) he's genuinely interested in the game and doesn't want to get out so early
I'm only considering the third one because I try to keep a broad horizon. Clearly Gen_Wolf is very uncomfortable, but I believe he tries to genuinely scumhunt despite his nervousness, as shown in his latest posts (sorry, bit short on time so I can't look up the number right now). He isn't attacking his attackers, he isn't trying to derail the wagon onto someone else, he's probing the soil and looking for suspects as best as he can. I have mixed feelings about him, I definitely don't trust him, but overall now I think it's worth to hear what he has to say if we lessen the pressure.
And to answer your suspicions, no, I'm not afraid to look accountable for lynching an innocent. I'm afraid of mislynching out of stupidity and narrow horizon before all other options and opinions are considered.
I do admit that I'm lurking since I have to remind myself that the phases aren't 2 - 4 days long and need to calmly take my time with each post that are up heh. Gives me a bit more time to fully flesh out what I need to do. Yeah its a change of pace but in the long run it would benefit me. Anyhow, I do have a T/S list that I have written up in my notebook so I'll just flesh it out in a nutshell (but will change depending on the events of the gameIn post 138, champinoman wrote:James Mayis another that is hard to get a read on due to complete lack of activity. His recent post was the first time that he has shared an opinion on someone and I liked what I read. However, it is very minimal. If you are used to playing faster paced games then surely this slow style of play is not your norm? And your fast reactions to different people mentioning your name in the last few hours seems to heavily suggest lurking. Dive in and scum hunt!
Clearly you didn't read the reason why I was lurking in the first place...and you didn't read the reason why I'm being cautious...gotta stop jumping to conclusions man.James May- lol, he started off lurking and has since become more involved but he's only really managed to make himself look worse. His cautiousness and refusal to take a strong stance on anyone is making himself an easy target for people to attack and is not helping the town. Gonna have to go with scum, although I'm worried he's just a townie acting stupid.
No, I saw why, you didn't want to jump to conclusions and stuff, but people will just call that indecisiveness, and if you're a townie then getting yourself lynched and attacked and asking yourself target won't help.In post 141, James May wrote:I do admit that I'm lurking since I have to remind myself that the phases aren't 2 - 4 days long and need to calmly take my time with each post that are up heh. Gives me a bit more time to fully flesh out what I need to do. Yeah its a change of pace but in the long run it would benefit me. Anyhow, I do have a T/S list that I have written up in my notebook so I'll just flesh it out in a nutshell (but will change depending on the events of the gameIn post 138, champinoman wrote:James Mayis another that is hard to get a read on due to complete lack of activity. His recent post was the first time that he has shared an opinion on someone and I liked what I read. However, it is very minimal. If you are used to playing faster paced games then surely this slow style of play is not your norm? And your fast reactions to different people mentioning your name in the last few hours seems to heavily suggest lurking. Dive in and scum hunt!
Strong Town
Generic
Town
Miss Stranger
Null-Town
Nacho
Null
Fegelein
Feel It
Gen Wolf
Champin
Antagon
Null-Scum
N/A
Scum
N/A
Strong Scum
N/A
Now, the ones that are Null-Town to Null-Scum (although there aren't any in Null-Scum atm) I need to read up on the ISOs separately to get a full idea on who is what and not jump the bullet. But I feel like the strongest Town read, on my end at least, is Generic as I could fully understand everything what he is saying with each post that he puts. Though Feel It has vanished from the radar (probably from rl-related issues?), Gen Wolf is V/LA & Nacho is sort of in this "backseat scumhunting" zone. I suppose that the meta of each of them would help out immensely in my reads and probably need to scope in on past games to get the general idea of their town/scum metas. As for Champin & Antag, it's also a matter of meta that needs to be fleshed out so that I can also understand their gameplay. I know that I'm mentioning meta a few times but I personally feel that on this phase using a player's meta from previous game to get a general idea of their typical town/scum meta would help a lot in here, especially for the SE/IC that are here.
But for now, basing on this phase so far, VOTE: Antagon, where are you? It would be nice to see some productive posts here :/
Might change it depending on further readings.
@Feel ItClearly you didn't read the reason why I was lurking in the first place...and you didn't read the reason why I'm being cautious...gotta stop jumping to conclusions man.James May- lol, he started off lurking and has since become more involved but he's only really managed to make himself look worse. His cautiousness and refusal to take a strong stance on anyone is making himself an easy target for people to attack and is not helping the town. Gonna have to go with scum, although I'm worried he's just a townie acting stupid.
I haven't been very involved with the game? Did you have a glance at the post count and assume that because I have a low post count (due to putting everything into one post every night) that I haven't been involved?In post 140, Feel It wrote:Champinoman- Hasn't been very involved in the game. A lot of people have town reads on him but I'm not convinced. He does ask some good questions and make good observations though. I don't like his subtle buddying with Gen_Wolf. The only thing you found suspicious was him saying it was a reaction test? I'm not convinced he's scum but he dropped more scumtells than that. He's also trying to discredit Miss Stranger's view on Gen_Wolf as well.
...
Gen_Wolf- He made the comment we all heard of but his reaction to the pressure he got from it was even worse. He got very aggressive and jumpy and started an OMGUS on me, a really weak and illogical one as well which he couldn't back up. Since then he's changed his opinion and been saying I'm town? He's been acting more helpful and town now though thankfully.
I just said there right in the comment you quoted why he was scummy.In post 144, champinoman wrote:I haven't been very involved with the game? Did you have a glance at the post count and assume that because I have a low post count (due to putting everything into one post every night) that I haven't been involved?In post 140, Feel It wrote:Champinoman- Hasn't been very involved in the game. A lot of people have town reads on him but I'm not convinced. He does ask some good questions and make good observations though. I don't like his subtle buddying with Gen_Wolf. The only thing you found suspicious was him saying it was a reaction test? I'm not convinced he's scum but he dropped more scumtells than that. He's also trying to discredit Miss Stranger's view on Gen_Wolf as well.
...
Gen_Wolf- He made the comment we all heard of but his reaction to the pressure he got from it was even worse. He got very aggressive and jumpy and started an OMGUS on me, a really weak and illogical one as well which he couldn't back up. Since then he's changed his opinion and been saying I'm town? He's been acting more helpful and town now though thankfully.
The case I have apparently been trying to derail against Miss Stranger is the exact same case I am pressing to you. Other than Gen_Wolf's first page blunder, what has he done? All I can see if someone defending them self. I know people will say I'm defending him but nobody has actually answered this question. And considering people keep mentioning this 'scum slip' I am forced to continue asking this same question.
My bad. I thought you literally meant I've put a vote on Gen_Wolf.No, it isn't. I was referring to the vote you intended to place if more people supported your cause. I clearly stated in the following sentence that your vote hadn't been placed yet.
Excessive survivalist attitude during Day 1 is not attributed to "I'm town and I want to win". This is something I find scummy about Gen_Wolf. Town has majority and shouldn't be concerned about being lynched more than about finding the scum. In my past few posts I've been trying to relieve the pressure on Gen_Wolf and give him a chance to find scum instead of fighting for his life. You seem to omit essential parts of my posts and use aggressive open accusations which are clearly baseless. What makes you think I "clearly don't want town to win"?4) he's town and wants town to win. <--- 7 of us are playing this way but clearly not you.
I'm not fishing. I'm trying to justify a survivalist attitude. His post after the V/LA post discredited that concern, which is why I said "a valuable asset". A vanilla townie who believes has something important to contribute is also a valuable asset. Try again.I'm also not too impressed with another round of PR fishing.
When he was first pressured he immediately jumped to defend and excuse himself. For a while he was obsessed with himself and offered little broad scumhunt. Lately his obsession turned into mere nervousness, and he is now concerned with getting reads on people, which is not scummy. This is why I've been supporting lessening the pressure on him to extract actual information instead of nervous self-defense. Which means you agree with me.And I don't see any negatives in your description of how he is reacting to all of this pressure. In fact, the way you have written it actually makes me consider that he might be a bigger town read than I gave him credit for earlier.
Overthinking is better than underthinking, no?Miss Stranger- Similar to Generic, but she over thinks things. Also, what makes you think James May is less scummy than Antagon?
He's pretty much only responded whenever his name was called, and hasn't contributed much if anything. Therefore I think Antagon is scummier.Wagons in RVS are good. Why do you think Gen_Wolf is scum? Why do you think Fegelein is town? By backseat scumhunting he meant this post. Sorry, I overlooked that other post, but it was pretty much self-explanatory. Why do you think this is town frustration and not scum frustration?
Wait. How is it possible for anyone to take a Page 1 scum read seriously? It's like having a first post of "The next player who posts is scum."In post 21, Fegelein wrote:Yeah...um...no.In post 20, Gen_Wolf wrote:Why bother with day 1. Lets just lynch Miss Stranger now and go from there? We are already onto our first scum.
In post 23, Fegelein wrote:Allowing wagons to form in RVS is a good method to get the game running. We can gauge reactions from James May.
Information Instead of Analysis. Instead of actually scumhunting, Fegelein instead chooses to talk theory instead. Therefore, he can say that he's actually done something while instead he's just blending in the background.In post 73, Fegelein wrote:Never do that Feel, it's WIFOM. Scum can play anyway they want.