Mini 1580: EpicMafiaTime [GAME OVER]

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm not changing my vote until he is dead or mod confirmed town. So yeah...

This looks like "100% certainty" to me.

no it doesn't. It looks like somebody who is committed to lynching his top scum read knowing there is a chance that sal could be town.

[Jake from State Farm]

To the people who said they are ignoring me. I've given reasons why sal's fake claim has no town motivation and his push on mirhawk is actually scum motivated since town is more likely going to be skeptical of a miller claim.

why ignore that?

Why ignore me for pushing on my scum read? That makes no sense. Sal is trying to flame the fire, not me.

[Not Voting]

Riiiiiight. Because players often vote and tunnel and refuse to ever change nomatter what when they aren't certain. BS. You should at least own up to your previous statements or let people know you are changing them. You can't fence-sit and expect other players to give it to you both ways.

[Jake from State Farm]

btw post 67 is Sal's attempt to discredit me by implying my vote on him was "policy" which it wasn't. People hera policy lynch and they automatically tune it out.

post 97 - he claims he wasn't taunting me yet he says he is reminding me of our last game. That game he was able to win by claiming miller and faking a bunch of AtE and I called him scum day 1. If that isn't taunting i don't know what is. Had people listened to me that game scum would not have won. yeah he was taunting me.

post 109 - he tries to get me forced replaced. this is him trying to set me off

post 115 - he starts typing all caps and trying to discredit everything I am doing.


it's obvious he is trying to discredit me.

I have provided reasons that i feel are pretty good, especially about the part about his attack on mirhawk. Being skeptical of a miller claim is more likely going to come from town in my experience. Trying to paint him as scummy for questioning him doesn't look town motivated.


I'm keeping my vote on Sal, I will ignore his attempts to flame war me but don't anyone ignore what I type. If you are going to do that than please replace out because I am playing this game seriously and expect others to as well.


My vote on Sal is not and never had been a policy lynch. I could easily call it one because he did claim miller and retract, but his motivations behind them do not look town motivated.

[Jake from State Farm]

Riiiiiight. Because players often vote and tunnel and refuse to ever change nomatter what when they aren't certain. BS.

I actually do this. want a link?

You should at least own up to your previous statements or let people know you are changing them.

I'm confused

You can't fence-sit and expect other players to give it to you both ways.

I don't think you know what fence sitting means because by definition I most certainly am not fence sitting. Fence sitting is refusal to take a stand. Do I look like I am refusing to take a stand? absolutely not

[Jake from State Farm]

mod can you fix my quote fail? thanks

You got it, brah.
~Skull

[Not Voting]

Maybe I should call it double-speak rather than fence-sitting. As in you're trying to have it both ways.

How about this, what do you think of kthxbye?

[Jake from State Farm]

He hasn't posted enough. He's null.

Right now I'm skeptical of sal/tn.

[Generic]

So I need to replace out for making a judgement call to ignore what I see as unhelpful play, but your decision to vote for and then ignore a specific person who you now claim you will tunnel until he is dead is perfectly fine.

And if he's town your attitude is pro town how?

No, I'm not going anywhere and yes I will choose to ignore whatever anyone says that I find ridiculous. Just a heads up there in case you want to death tunnel me too.

[Jake from State Farm]

So I need to replace out for making a judgement call to ignore what I see as unhelpful play, but your decision to vote for and then ignore a specific person who you now claim you will tunnel until he is dead is perfectly fine.

And if he's town your attitude is pro town how?

No, I'm not going anywhere and yes I will choose to ignore whatever anyone says that I find ridiculous. Just a heads up there in case you want to death tunnel me too.

C'mon really ? I'm voting my top scum read and have given reasons why he is. Sal first tried to discredit my attack by calling it a policy lynch and when I said it wasn't he verbally yells at me. And I'm the unhelpful one ?

I've explained why his push on Mir doesn't make sense.

Also I don't think I said I was going to ignore anyone. Not sure why you think I said I was.

If Sal is town, my play is still pro-town. I was just wrong. Being wrong doesn't mean I'm more or less pro-town. It just means I'm wrong.

[Jake from State Farm]

I did say I would ignore his attempts to flame war me. If you think doing that is wrong and I should fight back and clog the thread than at you.

Flame wars hurt not help the game.

Ignoring players in the game just cause you don't agree with their push also doesn't help the game.

[Jake from State Farm]

that unhelpful play comment is really bugging me right now. I would LOVE to hear you explain what exactly has been so "unhelpful" about my play cause I 100% disagree with you

[Jake from State Farm]

I would also like you to explain post 91 better. It is generally accepted that the easiest answer is probably the correct one and how you got to kthx scum doesn't look easy at all.

I also want you to explain why kthx's actions are an attempt at wifom (post 101) but I don't see you saying anything at Sal's post being an attempt at wifom and how the 2 actions are different enough to be suspicious of one but not the other.

[Generic]

Jake, now you are pressing the point CALMLY I'm willing to listen to you and your point. But reread yourself in isolation. You basically goaded the war and antagonised with how you approached declaring sal as your strong scum read and the wagon you are willing to push over all others.

And I misinterpreted you when you said you would ignore 'flame wars'. I hold my hand up to that one.

Basically what you are saying is you do not want to lynch anyone else but sal toDay. You have a case you feel is strong and no one else is as certain a scum read in your mind, correct?

What others around you are saying is don't tunnel. There is more than one mafia player after all. Don't waste your day. I am not opposed to lynching anyone at this moment in time, no one is 'obvtowning' to me as you lot on MS like to see.

Let's stick sal in the corner for the time being, and discuss some of your other reads. Who have you hit leaning either scum of town currently, anyone?

[Generic]

I would also like you to explain post 91 better. It is generally accepted that the easiest answer is probably the correct one and how you got to kthx scum doesn't look easy at all.

I also want you to explain why kthx's actions are an attempt at wifom (post 101) but I don't see you saying anything at Sal's post being an attempt at wifom and how the 2 actions are different enough to be suspicious of one but not the other.

It was the easiest answer from my perspective. I don't see why you don't see what I'm saying.

Here's an example:

I say "yay, I'm do excited whenever I'm in a game with Natirasha!"

You ask why, and add that you will be looking back at past games I was on with him.

Now if I were to answer "cos I find him a lot if fun to play with" you wouldn't see much in yhat.

However if I were to go "cos I have enjoyed playing in scum
Teams with him. But that isn't to say I don't enjoy playing with him as town, cos I love playing in games with him when I'm a pr... Or vanilla."

You are gonna look at that and think. 'Why has he just explained an over complicated answer covering every fucking possible combination? Why has my question made him so jittery?'.

To me that answer over explained and covered all possibilities. That's at best a fluff respobse, and at worst wifom to make you wonder if they are a PR so you may not want to wagon them.

[Generic]

I would also like you to explain post 91 better. It is generally accepted that the easiest answer is probably the correct one and how you got to kthx scum doesn't look easy at all.

I also want you to explain why kthx's actions are an attempt at wifom (post 101) but I don't see you saying anything at Sal's post being an attempt at wifom and how the 2 actions are different enough to be suspicious of one but not the other.

On the Salamence point I already commented that I wondered what the hell was going on until it became apparent he was gambiting.

I don't see a gambit attempt as a reason to death tunnel, sorry about that. But I haven't had a chance to digest the subsequent reaction to you beyond reading you two throwing a tantrum at eachother and choosing to then ignore everything that followed until my post.

So you talking to me like an adult now will mean we can establish exactly what your case is, cos you say it's not policy which is fine, and I will take it from there .

[Jake from State Farm]

I have actually remained calm the entire time. The only time I got upset is when red called me a VI and I am still waiting for his apology

As of right now, correct I do not wish to lynch anyone else. When I am sure about somebody I tend to stick with it. Sure I said I will never change (probably not true but that shows how serious I am about my scum read on him)

I haven't seen anything from him that resembles town motivation. Even the part where he was responding to mir but telling him to ask me my thoughts. Why isn't sal giving his own thoughts and deferring to me? makes no sense.

As for tunneling, that's what i do. I almost always tunnel because I can't trust anyone else but myself. Lately I have been more right than wrong so I don't see any reason why I should stop tunneling.


My top 2 are Sal and tn. The fact that sal would rather stick on mir rather than change his vote to tn makes me think even strongly they could be a pair. Tn's posts are weird to me, they don't feel like town looking for scum.

I don't have any town reads at the moment


p.edit - why do you think that him gambiting means automatically town? because it doesn't. Scum

can

gambit also.

as for the kthx thing I'm still confused and I don't really see him as jittery. I just see him as being useless so I will just move on. I don't think there is enough from him to tell one way or the other.

[Generic]

Where did I say he was auto town? I just saw no reason to assume he was scum over it. Like you just pointed out, it's not alignment indicative.

And I don't know how you play, that's why I pointed out I'm having up cold read everyone except one or two. You could tell me now sal as scum always gbits early, and that would add weight to the case. But I don't know who does what.

And as for your read on kthxbye, you have just done what I did with sal. We clearly see scum attitudes and actions in different things. The reason I'm happy to discuss with you is I have a tendency towards the tunnel when I think I have something too. So I see a town mindset. But I also know how stupid I look when wrong, so I rarely just assume a death tunnel is on to something until I make the assessment myself.

[RedCoyote]

Sure I said I will never change (probably not true but that shows how serious I am about my scum read on him)

Do you mean this or don't you? You need to understand words have meanings, Jake. You saying you refuse to play the game if you don't get your way means something when I read that. You can go back after the fact as you are doing here and say it is all hyperbole just to show how "serious" you are, but that doesn't erase history.

Otherwise I can simply say, "Sure I called you a VI (it's probably not true but that shows how serious I am about how childish you are acting)".

I mean, do you really not comprehend the obvious contradiction of these two statements?

• I'm not changing my vote until he is dead or mod confirmed town. So yeah...

  Sure I said I will never change (probably not true

It's either true or it isn't true. If it's true, then you are a VI and I have no interest in attempting to reason with you. If it isn't true, you are not a VI and we can have a civilized game with you as a part of it.

Check your pride at the door, man. I'm not better than you. Sal's not better than you. You're not better than anyone else. This is a game.

[Jake from State Farm]

My memory is a bit fuzzy but sal and I played in Disney mafia. He claimed miller and I pushed to have him lynched. Nobody did til later in the game after I died. He freaked out acting emotional and such and people wrote him off as town.

Now he's taking a different approach here but none of it makes sense as town. Even if he was gambiting to catch scum, mir's reaction was more town IMO.

I will say that him saying it was a joke does make me reconsider him looking town, but sal attacking him definitely reeks of scum motivation. IMO town is always going to be skeptical of a miller claim, especially if it's your first time with it.

P.edit

mod I have asked red to apologize and since he's violated one of your rules I'm asking you please provide him a warning. Thanks.

@ red - please don't call me a VI or insult me again. The mod has rules for a reason

[Jake from State Farm]

Sure I said I will never change (probably not true but that shows how serious I am about my scum read on him)

Do you mean this or don't you? You need to understand words have meanings, Jake. You saying you refuse to play the game if you don't get your way means something when I read that. You can go back after the fact as you are doing here and say it is all hyperbole just to show how "serious" you are, but that doesn't erase history.

Otherwise I can simply say, "Sure I called you a VI (it's probably not true but that shows how serious I am about how childish you are acting)".

I mean, do you really not comprehend the obvious contradiction of these two statements?

• I'm not changing my vote until he is dead or mod confirmed town. So yeah...

  Sure I said I will never change (probably not true

It's either true or it isn't true. If it's true, then you are a VI and I have no interest in attempting to reason with you. If it isn't true, you are not a VI and we can have a civilized game with you as a part of it.

Check your pride at the door, man. I'm not better than you. Sal's not better than you. You're not better than anyone else. This is a game.

See I can't predict the future man. As I stand right now I can't see any reason why I would change off Sal but that doesn't mean that later in the day phase somebody does something that I see as scummier.

Being confident in who I want to lynch doesn't make me a VI.
Saying I won't change my vote but knowing it's possible as the day phase plays out I give up when it's obvious i am not going to get my way doesn't make me a VI
The fact that I am confident in myself to think I have found scum and refuse to waiver especially since nobody has provided a better option doesn't make me a VI.


herschel hasn't done anything scummier than sal (I mean you are voting him for lying )
Mir hasn't done anything scummier than sal
kthx hasn't done anything scummier than sal
tn hasn't done anything scummier than sal

[Natirasha]

Lol Jake

I'm out right now Generic but I promise to actually do stuff today!

[Generic]

No rush now nats, jake and sal stole my thunder.

[Jake from State Farm]

Idk if it's this game or what but I'm in a shitty mood and have a headache. Il do my best to keep my mouth shut for a day or so. I don't want to clog the thread up anymore.

[Kthxbye]

Ok, let's start with the need you felt you had to fence sit because you had commited to a claim you loved the role and someone cleverly put you on the spot with it.
You knew your meta would flag up a love of scum roles, so sleeady you were on the back foot. Do you cobble together a convoluted answer that admits to such but then desperately tries to claw it back with comments that include a vague remark about sometimes living the theme, and hinting at a PR which you even then desperately try to cover over with the crap about vanilla roles.

So instead of a straight forward 'it was actually the flavour it was excited about' you clearly tried to dig yourself out of a hole.

vote kthxbye

Glad you were so excited about my response though, feel free to give a convoluted answer as to why about that too.

......pfft...bwahahahahahahaha!

thanks mate, I haven't laughed like that since I was a little girl.


Jake's play so far reminds me of his town game.

Red always looks town whether he is scum or not sooooo we shall see.

Not Voting's 102 is baaaaaaaad.

Generic went full retard. Everyone knows you should never go full retard.

Though I think Not Voting is probs scum for that weak ass vote, I think I will just sheep Jake today.

VOTE: Sal