13p Normal [TM2015]

[Malakittens]

I'm not rushing. I'm trying to see where you are at and no where did I imply that I want you super spammy because that's exactly what I don't want/need.

[SleepyKrew]

It would be nice if you like did something, anything?

This seemed to me to be both a "hurry up and do something" and a "hurry up and do

your

thing" (ie spam).
But yeah I'm waiting on stuff and am going to do stuff, but nothing's really changed since here.

[pieguyn]

Re: vote thing read above. I was interacting with players, whereas, Micc wasn't IMO.

so you thought this:

STD, what is the point/goal/reason we do RVS in your opinion?

I'm a little put of by the fact that Dragons is excited to play the game but isnt willing to help move us into the actual game.

was something other than him directly interacting with STD? at the very least, I know you saw the second post bc you outright quoted it.

First off nice misrep Pie. I didn't have any "pressure" on me when I posted "You've never played with me before" I was trying to interact with STD in regards to a comment that he made about Micc and regarding SK-RVS. So I don't see how I was using that as an excuse out of anything. My comment about never playing with me before was I wasn't RVS to just chain RVS or because of his dice roll, but I RVS'd SK because he was a player I enjoyed talking too outside of ms. I tend to RVS in that mindset than random RVS etc.

OK, I reread and I misread that exchange. blame me being awake at 4 AM -.-

now with that out of the way, why do you think I'm supposedly misrep'ing you here? even if it was clear that's what happened (it's not), I don't understand what you think scum-me has to gain by doing this.

you also ignored the remainder of what I pointed out: that you're making a whole bunch of neutral sounding posts but not making any sort of hard push on anyone. you supposedly think Micc is scum. why haven't you done anything in your most recent posts to push him, question him, or try and convince people to vote him along with you? I'm seeing more weak pokes/jabs at a bunch of people, but no follow through on the Micc push.

[pieguyn]

Can you summerise why Mara has the scum read?

Mara thinks he's being more obtuse than normal and not *actually* doing anything legitimately town motivated. I agree with the point about being obtuse to some extent, but most of the stuff that made me think that was from page 1/2 and I could potentially see it as town trying to spin content out of thin air in order to move the game forward.

pieguyn, Tammy wants you to explain your Jason-scumread some more.

I'll go through it in detail later tonight. does Tammy have a town read on him?

[pieguyn]

vote: Mala

[Save The Dragons]

was something other than him directly interacting with STD? at the very least, I know you saw the second post bc you outright quoted it.

tbf 27 probably doesn't have the intent of interacting with me.

[pieguyn]

yeah, but I'm about 99% sure 21 at least did. 27 is also the kind of post I'd make to a scum read expecting the person in question to respond to it, hence interacting, but regardless.

do you disagree with my assessment of the rest of her play?

[Save The Dragons]

I'm looking over it now.

[Malakittens]

Re: vote thing read above. I was interacting with players, whereas, Micc wasn't IMO.

so you thought this:

STD, what is the point/goal/reason we do RVS in your opinion?

I'm a little put of by the fact that Dragons is excited to play the game but isnt willing to help move us into the actual game.

was something other than him directly interacting with STD? at the very least, I know you saw the second post bc you outright quoted it.

First off nice misrep Pie. I didn't have any "pressure" on me when I posted "You've never played with me before" I was trying to interact with STD in regards to a comment that he made about Micc and regarding SK-RVS. So I don't see how I was using that as an excuse out of anything. My comment about never playing with me before was I wasn't RVS to just chain RVS or because of his dice roll, but I RVS'd SK because he was a player I enjoyed talking too outside of ms. I tend to RVS in that mindset than random RVS etc.

OK, I reread and I misread that exchange. blame me being awake at 4 AM -.-

now with that out of the way, why do you think I'm supposedly misrep'ing you here? even if it was clear that's what happened (it's not), I don't understand what you think scum-me has to gain by doing this.

you also ignored the remainder of what I pointed out: that you're making a whole bunch of neutral sounding posts but not making any sort of hard push on anyone. you supposedly think Micc is scum. why haven't you done anything in your most recent posts to push him, question him, or try and convince people to vote him along with you? I'm seeing more weak pokes/jabs at a bunch of people, but no follow through on the Micc push.

Yeah, but it felt like a "test" the water type thing with the second thing. Like a jab saying "HERE GUYS HES DOING SOMETHING SCUMMY LET'S SEE WHO BAITS AT IT" while being a scumfuck and sheeping a P1 case which wasn't solid in the first place.

I already called out Micc for these jabs.

You're misrepping me saying I was trying to wiggle out of pressure when there was no pressure to wiggle out from. like I was trying to hide when in fact I wasn't, but interacting with STD over something that was said. It's a basic misrep. I didn't say anything about alignment, did I? Why are you trying to play the "Scum-me" has nothing to gain from this card so early here. I don't really have a huge read on you yet I'm just calling bullshit out when I see it.

It's D1. I'm still trying to gather up some reads, sort out people and mull over what my teammates wrote to me in the PT. Micc hasn't really posted since so I'm trying to wait and see, how he reacts to new posts. I'm going with my gut right now because there's nothing really scummy standing out besides maybe two other things. I'm curious in regards to Jason's responses because the whole thing I quoted re:SK feels odd as fuck. I'm also mulling over something said in regards to Fenchurch and see if I agree/don't agree with it atm.

[pieguyn]

I already called out Micc for these jabs.

yes, and you haven't seen anything in his 2 or 3 posts since then worth questioning to solidify the read?

it's as I said before. I don't see any effort in your recent posts to question him or try to get anyone else to see what you're seeing. I generally think you could be a hell of a lot more proactive with regard to your read on him; it feels more like you're sitting on the sidelines trying to avoid making too many waves early in the game.

You're misrepping me saying I was trying to wiggle out of pressure when there was no pressure to wiggle out from. like I was trying to hide when in fact I wasn't, but interacting with STD over something that was said. It's a basic misrep. I didn't say anything about alignment, did I? Why are you trying to play the "Scum-me" has nothing to gain from this card so early here. I don't really have a huge read on you yet I'm just calling bullshit out when I see it.

the obvious implication from "misrep" - as well as the question at the end of this paragraph - would be that I'm scum. hence me asking what you think me-scum would have to gain by deliberately misrep'ing you over something relatively minor.

[Save The Dragons]

I'm bothered by malakittens's language; there's a giddy confidence in there (like Light from Death Note, or I guess early books Queen Cersei)

Like something like this is almost dismissive:

If you could flesh that out it would be grand.

I'm not really sure why, but I don't like this, although, it's not where it's super scummy persay. It just might be because some players, such as me, believe we are out of RVS so trying to draw back in feels off. Is there any comments that you would like to make in regards of current happenings in thread?

I keep coming back to this, perhaps I believe in the sanctity of RVS, a happy place where you can come in and throw your vote down while you're getting your bearings in the game without fear of being harangued...okay I'm being overly dramatic, but I suppose I fail to see how one person RVSing is going to successfully draw us back into the RVS.

I think her stance on Micc (50) is hypocritical - she calls him out for taking jabs but not interacting, when he for the most part was and she explicitly unvotes in that post (her vote was supposed to be on Micc) without making much of a hard push on him.

The problem is Micc did sheep Thor in the opening post. After talking with Micc I am confident he holds a similar stance so it makes more sense but at the time there was nothing really to indicate why he sheeped. At the time of her post, yeah, he asked me a question, then 27 which actually is rather open ended, but I'm not certain that I would say he was interacting enough for her accusation not to be justified. The unvote seems like a mistake.

(56) is a really easy throwaway excuse for scum to use when they want an easy way out of pressure.

The first part of it does kind of bother me. The use of "I didn't like" (from an earlier post) I suppose could be a personal preference, but it is used later by her (and I believe commonly in mafia setting) to refer to something as being suspicious. In 56 she amends her "I didn't like" with a "I don't really care" which is odd.

The second part, eh. I think Malakittens and I were just talking about two slightly different but coincidental events. It didn't really make sense at the time but I think I understand why she said it now that I've looked back at her explanation.

now with that out of the way, why do you think I'm supposedly misrep'ing you here? even if it was clear that's what happened (it's not),

I agree it wasn't clear what happened.

you also ignored the remainder of what I pointed out: that you're making a whole bunch of neutral sounding posts but not making any sort of hard push on anyone. you supposedly think Micc is scum. why haven't you done anything in your most recent posts to push him, question him, or try and convince people to vote him along with you? I'm seeing more weak pokes/jabs at a bunch of people, but no follow through on the Micc push.

I agree with this (though I don't exactly blame her for not reading Micc the riot act by now or anything, I don't think there's interaction with him though.)

Eh. I guess overall I'm not really seeing Malascum but I'm still concerned about it.

---

Mara thinks he's being more obtuse than normal and not *actually* doing anything legitimately town motivated.

I don't know what normal Thor is but other than that I agree Mara but I will defer a call on his alignment until he posts again.

Lastly, I like to spam so I don't wall. Spam may be annoying but it's usually a lot easier to read.

[Save The Dragons]

Yeah, but it felt like a "test" the water type thing with the second thing. Like a jab saying "HERE GUYS HES DOING SOMETHING SCUMMY LET'S SEE WHO BAITS AT IT" while being a scumfuck and sheeping a P1 case which wasn't solid in the first place.

I already called out Micc for these jabs.

This actually feels a bit more town to me.

I need to go to bed I will try to confirm when I wake.

[Malakittens]

I already called out Micc for these jabs.

yes, and you haven't seen anything in his 2 or 3 posts since then worth questioning to solidify the read?

it's as I said before. I don't see any effort in your recent posts to question him or try to get anyone else to see what you're seeing. I generally think you could be a hell of a lot more proactive with regard to your read on him; it feels more like you're sitting on the sidelines trying to avoid making too many waves early in the game.

You're misrepping me saying I was trying to wiggle out of pressure when there was no pressure to wiggle out from. like I was trying to hide when in fact I wasn't, but interacting with STD over something that was said. It's a basic misrep. I didn't say anything about alignment, did I? Why are you trying to play the "Scum-me" has nothing to gain from this card so early here. I don't really have a huge read on you yet I'm just calling bullshit out when I see it.

the obvious implication from "misrep" - as well as the question at the end of this paragraph - would be that I'm scum. hence me asking what you think me-scum would have to gain by deliberately misrep'ing you over something relatively minor.

Not really.

Again he hasn't posted. I already commented on his said posts that I disagreed with. I mean I would be more proactive if he actually posted...? Your chainsaw defense is noted though Pie.

Town can misrep AND scum can misrep. If I see a misrep I point it out. I'm not really sure if you are town or scum at this point, but your general posts so far aren't the greatest. You are sitting here defending the shit out of Micc, while attacking his attacker.

[Malakittens]

Oh btw, I'm an aggressive little fuck at times so if you feel that I'm going to far tell me to calm it down because I will. It's nothing personal it's just me.~

Anyways it's way past my bed time so I'll be back later on today. I'm shocked I even stayed up til 3am after going to bed before 11pm every night.

[Boonskiies]

Alright, I get to finally legitimately town read Pie for once. I don't think she would have put me as possible town as scum. Ever.

Unvote

[pieguyn]

pieguyn, Tammy wants you to explain your Jason-scumread some more.

Spoiler:

49 consisted of a bunch of leading questions that don't really go anywhere and weak stances. all of these:

I don't really see any problem with SK not posting a vote in his first post. I don't think it is telling in any way of alignment.IF you are to reach, and I mean reallllllly reach it could be seen as a little cautious. But right now I do think Thor is maybe extremely trying to over justify things in his posts.

RVS is useful for reactions etc... but too much stock is being put on it right now.

came off more like he was trying to appear like he was being logical and consider all possibilities, without actually committing to a firm stance either way or doing anything to make a hard push on anyone. the question to TH:

I agree with you on this, but in the first few posts? Would it not be better to see down the line what he does instead of basing an entire case of him not posting a vote and just saying greetings?

felt similar in that actually doing this would be entirely counterproductive. it didn't strike me as the type of thing a town player would focus on; it felt, again, more like scum trying to appear to be as neutral and logical as possible.

@SK - What has picked your interest right now? I think this should be a better line of questioning as to trying to over-justify his non vote greetings post. Instead of going around in circles, is there anything that has stood out since your 'greetings' post that you would like to comment on?

I did think this question was kind of town. it is consistent with him later thinking that SK was posting a bunch of stuff to appear useful without actually being useful.

60 was similar. I didn't like the SK push - although it looks really really bad objectively, not responding to questions asking you for reads isn't smth that's intrinsically scum motivated by itself, which, again, made it seem like an easy throwaway question for scum to pick on. moving onto 84, I didn't like his switch onto SK there either, for the same reasons as before; in addition to the fact he's picking on something that isn't actually alignment indicative to come from scum, he flip flops on it *again* in that exact same post. I also didn't really like that after this he appears to forget all about the Micc read, which reinforced my idea that he was just going with the flow and taking neutral stances that didn't serve to make any waves in the game, but given what's going on with Mala I'm considering the possibility I'm being way too harsh about this.

I don't think you're scummy as such, but I do think you are over trying and drawing attention to yourself.

this was another statement I thought felt more like scum trying way too hard to be neutral and appear like they were being as logical as possible.

I thought the first question in 107 was a good thing to pick up on and I liked that he was among the first (afaict?) to pressure sthar. I liked 108 for similar reasons, in that he's again among the first to take an interest in Mara's Thor read after I posted it.

I didn't like 111 bc it again felt like an easy statement for scum to make, and there was no follow through behind it. he's just claiming SK is pretending to be useful without actually explaining why he thinks this. I would expect a town player would place more focus on showing everyone exactly *why* all of SK's posting is fake/attempting to be useful without actually being useful/etc. than he is doing here - the way he's going about this feels really shallow and reads more like scum trying to discredit the person pushing them by pushing back at them.

disclaimer, a lot of this is stuff other people had pointed out already and I'm not convinced some of it isn't playstyle (mostly with all of his posts sounding neutral). given Tammy knows how he plays better than me I'd like her opinion here.

[Fenchurch]

Well I'm waiting on my teammates to get back to me with any jason meta they might have (anyone else is free to contribute too!) about if he actually tries to pass off irrelevant crap as useful as scum or town or both or whatever. Then I'm going to give Trojan Horse a thorough lookover.

Out of interest, what's stopping you looking through jason's meta yourself? Lack of time/lack of interest? (The latter is a valid reason; meta-reading can be boring.)

And why not give Trojan Horse a lookover first; and why him in particular?

And do you trust meta that much? I think there are some tells that are intuitive and fall outside meta.

[sthar8]

Lookit that. I got home and it's technically before midnight.

I've got limited experience with Thor and I think nobody else in this playerlist? If I'm forgetting something I'm sorry. I want to say before we get too deep that I've been looking forward to playing with a lot of you and IMO we have the coolest team mafia playerlist.

@jason- why did you comment on my activity, but not delta's?

I like Thor and STD's interactions. They can be town for now.

@skrew- marry me, and after the honeymoon tell me what you're thinking wrt Trojan

@fen- do you feel like expounding on any of your other reads?

@ boon- wrt 139, why is that?

I feel like I'm forgetting something I wanted to talk about but its hard to do this while yawning so much. See y'all tomorrow after I finish with the hell-house.

p-edit oh blarg that case. pie just jumped into the 'persons of interest' group for me.

[Fenchurch]

Updated reads list:

SleepyKrew - maybe town
Micc - maybe town
Dragons - maybe town
Pieguy - maybe town
Thor - could go either way
Mala - maybe scum
jason - maybe scum

not being read yet:

Egg
Trojan Horse
sthar
Delta
Boon

[SleepyKrew]

Well I'm waiting on my teammates to get back to me with any jason meta they might have (anyone else is free to contribute too!) about if he actually tries to pass off irrelevant crap as useful as scum or town or both or whatever. Then I'm going to give Trojan Horse a thorough lookover.

Out of interest, what's stopping you looking through jason's meta yourself? Lack of time/lack of interest? (The latter is a valid reason; meta-reading can be boring.)

And why not give Trojan Horse a lookover first; and why him in particular?

And do you trust meta that much? I think there are some tells that are intuitive and fall outside meta.

I have absolutely no intention of looking through his meta for something that isn't easily searchable because yeah, I'd probably fall asleep whilst clawing my eyes out.

jason meta has the chance of giving me a decent scumread on him, and I don't want to push two decent scumreads at once right now, which is why I'm holding off on getting my Trojan read.

Are you suggesting that jason's behaviour is scummy in and of itself, or are you speaking generally? If someone tells me that jason almost never acts this way as town, or is almost always scum when he acts this way, I will trust them. My trust will be doled out in varying degrees depending on their degree of confidence and degree of how often he does it as whichever alignment.

@skrew- marry me, and after the honeymoon tell me what you're thinking wrt Trojan

You'd just erase our marriage in a deal with the devil to bring your aunt (who is already frickin old) back to life

Why should I wait until

after

the honeymoon to tell you that I prefer Magnum?

I'll let you know as soon as I have thoughts.

[SleepyKrew]

Fenchurch, did I get bumped down? This is outrageous!

[pieguyn]

I keep coming back to this, perhaps I believe in the sanctity of RVS, a happy place where you can come in and throw your vote down while you're getting your bearings in the game without fear of being harangued...okay I'm being overly dramatic, but I suppose I fail to see how one person RVSing is going to successfully draw us back into the RVS.

this was one of the things that initially pinged me and led me to think she was just taking easy stances. calling someone out for "RVS'ing" after RVS is supposedly over is a really easy thing to comment on as scum in order to look like you're scum hunting.

The problem is Micc did sheep Thor in the opening post. After talking with Micc I am confident he holds a similar stance so it makes more sense but at the time there was nothing really to indicate why he sheeped. At the time of her post, yeah, he asked me a question, then 27 which actually is rather open ended, but I'm not certain that I would say he was interacting enough for her accusation not to be justified. The unvote seems like a mistake.

fair enough. the unvote was a mistake; my original point was that, given a perfectly valid opportunity to vote Micc in turn pushing him further, she actively chose not to (while at the same time pushing him for not pushing his reads strongly enough).

This actually feels a bit more town to me.

I need to go to bed I will try to confirm when I wake.

while I don't think it makes her town, I agree her explanation here is fine.

[Boonskiies]

@sthr - Pie and I have never had a game where one of us weren't scum. We've been partners even before. I tunnel her hard. Everytime. She can catch me out as scum like a [insert ridiculous comparison here]. This is just a page 6 read for me, so not too much merit to it, but it is worth paying attention to.

[SleepyKrew]

Oh pie, is Mara an expert on reading you online too? I may ask her to explain why you're town later.

[pieguyn]

Again he hasn't posted. I already commented on his said posts that I disagreed with. I mean I would be more proactive if he actually posted...? Your chainsaw defense is noted though Pie.

Town can misrep AND scum can misrep. If I see a misrep I point it out. I'm not really sure if you are town or scum at this point, but your general posts so far aren't the greatest. You are sitting here defending the shit out of Micc, while attacking his attacker.

:/

I think Micc had a fair amount of content in between the post where you pushed him and your later posts. however, I admit I may be being too harsh there.

my aim is moreso to attack your logic than defend Micc per se; I don't have a read on Micc. either way, I don't feel as strongly as I did before about you being scum. soooooooo

where are you currently at with Fen and Thor?