Open 708: Pick Your Poison - Game Over

[Errantparabola]

Hello everyone-- lame non-post here because I've been quite ill the past few days. See you soon.

[Maxous]

Maxous, what's your opinion on the interactions between Flubber and Thor over the last page?

I like Flubber's posts enough, i don't see a problem with anything he's saying
Thor? idk. A lot of busywork and :effortposting: but still could be scum. I'm sitting on the fence regarding him

Your reads on Penguin and Call.

@Maxous.

Penguin is very meh to me right now.
I'm willing to maybe say that he got bogged down into a long argument and that affected he rest of his reads...though i'm not exactly sure why he thinks i'm scum?
I agree his defence was messier than it probably should of been.
I'm willing to give some time to breathe but i'm certainly not town-reading him anyway

Who's Call?

Edit: wasn't avoiding, i just don't write wall posts

[Thor665]

Call = Cult of Athena.

I'm asking you to explain your leans on her and Penguin at the point you claimed you had the leans.
Something I'm still looking forward to you answering.

[mozamis]

You should surely be able to tell I think maxous is scum.

You're null.

Whoever first brought up the timing thing is probably town-ish.

Penguin will be scum if all they can do is continue to argue with you

not seeing Max scum, explain please.

[Maxous]

i liked Athena's post because she go stuck into the scumhunting straight away and i liked Penguin's initial response endorsing the line of enquiry.

call it gut or w/e. Maybe my standard of having a early town-lean is looser than other people's.
and as you can see with my current read on Penguin - it's not binding anyway

[mozamis]

I had reads skimming through this, but I'm not around for very long. I'll prolly post something in the next 2ish hours?

UNVOTE:

why didnt you at least mention one of your reads?

fos klick

[Klick]

I was paused on a movie and just gave the thread a quick skim at the time - the reads weren't very strong, and in fact I can't actually remember what my reads were before the more detailed look. I was basically saying "There's enough detail in the last four pages for me to get reads; I'll do that soon."

[Flubbernugget]

Thor, I expected better than defending your counterexample by virtue of it being a counterexample. How does that show me you didn't get lucky and lynch scum for the wrong reason? I'm well aware that yes, you *could* catch scum on timing. That doesn't convince me that it's a useful path of pursuit to find scum. In addition, asking if I would like examples of timing tells working, and then telling me doing such is a waste of time comes off as incredibly disingenuous.

[Flubbernugget]

You should surely be able to tell I think maxous is scum.

You're null.

Whoever first brought up the timing thing is probably town-ish.

Penguin will be scum if all they can do is continue to argue with you

not seeing Max scum, explain please.

I liked them for scum off the unexplained town reads. That's now stale.

UNVOTE:

[Flubbernugget]

Also Thor, is there a reason your interrogation of me isn't a push yet? You're usually quick to discern my alignment.

[Bellaphant]

Right, I misread what thor's initial push was: I asked confused questions because I was confused. That's pretty clear in retrospect, when I suggested pp got an email about game start when the whole issue was....the game hadn't started. I was pretty sure what I understood wasn't correct.

Maxous, why wouldn't you want t engage with Q and A over your early town reads?

Nothing Thor is doing is a tell either way.

I really like CoA's post 100, especially the response to pp.

@beef, talk to me about 102? If you could see scum in me, and flub pushed (if he is pushing me), and you vote for him as scum...why?

...I have the dumbest gut read on texcat.

[Klick]

Which way is the gut read on texcat, and what posts does it come from? Because I have the same thing.

[Bellaphant]

I mean there's only two of them and one is generic af so....

and it's town.

[Klick]

Yeah, I had a weird gut townread on texcat as well reading earlier. Something about the post he made on page 3 seemed like... minimal content, but in a genuine way? idk.

[Bellaphant]

I liked the vote as well: it seemed to want to move on from the thor/pp thing which people (now flubber) are stil dragging, and felt like a gut reaction to max's weird 'I have SEKRIT' townreads. tex is prolly the player i've got most experience of here as well.

[Bellaphant]

Actually

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Maxous

[Klick]

Bella, where are your reads on the more active players atm? I understand no Thor read, but I'm wondering about how you're seeing Flub/Beef/Penguin/mozamis. Particularly Beef and Penguin, who I'm having a really hard time placing. I spent like half an hour while writing my post last night trying to place an initial read on Beefster, with no results. If you've got a lean anywhere on them I'd be really interested in hearing it.

PEdit: Could you explain the vote to me? You can probably tell I'm just wanting to see your mindset on this game right now

[Bellaphant]

Flub I'm kinda thrown by the interchange with thor - i don't feel continuing the conversation as he has is particularly town motivated and his weird 'vote for bella but not' thing is mainly confusing. I've not played with him a huge amount - I tracked him to a kill in my first game out of the newbie q, and then I mainly remember him being more lurky as town? His want for thor to read him and a few other things make me wonder, so he's super null.

I'd love pp to be town, tonally and content wise, but Athena's post about him not interacting with other slots is weighing on me. I'm sure most of us know what its like to get into it with Thor, though, so I'm going to watch and see othher interactions.

Beef is just reading as scum to me. lots of posts but not a huge amount of content and their 102 is gross, as mentioned above. moz is getting lightly scumread for the same reasons - kinda scattergun, their points aren't picked up in later posts.

max I feel i have explained? his weird town read early post, and then later saying he wouldn't clarify bc he didn't wanna get into q and a about it? hiding information isn't helping town.

These feel kinda basic and I have too many scum reads, but flub and pp are more 'wait and see' reads. I'm tring athena and tex, really.

[Beefster]

@beef, talk to me about 102? If you could see scum in me, and flub pushed (if he is pushing me), and you vote for him as scum...why?

It was more like a "I see where you get the idea", not that I agreed.

[Bellaphant]

Talk to me more about that thought process though?

[Beefster]

kinda scattergun, their points aren't picked up in later posts.

They'll coalesce into something cohesive eventually. There just isn't a whole lot to go on right now.

[Beefster]

Talk to me more about that thought process though?

If you mean on post 102, sure.

My first thought passing over the post was something like "something doesn't seem quite right about this post" and then I figured out it was something like encouraging others to vote a particular player without doing it himself. It seemed lynch-centric to me.

I like to see other people's perspectives before making a judgement call, so made note that you were "possible scum" based on what others said about your opening posts that I couldn't place clearly on town or not. I could

kinda

see what people were saying about your opening posts, but I wasn't really sure what to think at the time. Thus I only said "possible scum". Really more of a null tell TBH.

FWIW, I read you as town at this point.

[Bellaphant]

Yeah, that is what I meant and was super helpful.

IF flub -doesn't- wanna lynch me, what does he think town is getting out of a wagon... I have some ideas but I'd rather flub talked to me.

[Moneybags]

Ok so I'll start here by responding to Thor.

CLearly we are not communicating functionally - here's the timeline as I understand it with my question restated for clarity;

You: Thor is pushing for low hanging fruit, amirite?
Me: If you think that, why aren't you coming at me over it? I think you're looking for support before getting behind something.
You: Because you may not be scum, for instance, look at Beefeater's thing too - maybe you're town.
Me: Then why call me out and not Beefeater at the same time?
You: I did call out Beefeater.

So to clarify/reask my question;

Initially you *did not* call out Beefeater's actions. You only called out mine in a scummy light.
Why do that if you also had questions about Beefeater/didn't really think I was scummy for what I was doing?
Walk me through the whole thought process if you can.

Ok so I think you may have misinterpreted what I meant in 46. To adjust your overview:

Money: Thor is pushing for low hanging fruit, amirite?
Thor: If you think that, why aren't you coming at me over it? I think you're looking for support before getting behind something.
Money: Because you may not be scum,

there may be an equally valid explanation for your behavior. To say otherwise would be hypocritical of me given my stance on PP. Also, in such a scenario where you are town, I find it odd that Beefeater is very specifically trying to be lowkey about defending PP.

(42)
Thor: Then why call me out and not Beefeater at the same time?
Money:

What do you mean, I did call out Beefeater just as equally as I "called out" you. I'm not pinning down either of you as scum, simply pointing out potentially scummy behavior.

I feel like this miscommunication is due to a very polar difference in our play styles. So far I've been making passing comments to generate discussion. You have been interrogating people which gets reactions and also generates discussion. I can see why you would take an issue with me being less confrontational.

That said, I more clearly see the importance of me being more direct with my observations. In a new post (or perhaps multiple) I'll start providing some more detailed reads. I'll start on it now.

[Flubbernugget]

Yeah, that is what I meant and was super helpful.

IF flub -doesn't- wanna lynch me, what does he think town is getting out of a wagon... I have some ideas but I'd rather flub talked to me.

The idea was that you had a weak entrance that scum could have hopped on to counterwagon maxous. It would have made for a good talking point in addition to Thors push on penguin