Newbie 2014: Aesthetic | Game Over

[ArthurConyl]

Hilarious, that was kinda the opposite effect my post was supposed to have.

[ArthurConyl]

Anyone else want to vote me? I'm done with this game. Actually surprised at how smart people think they are, considering all they know is shit. One more vote please. It really do be a case of if town is this dumb, they don't deserve to win. One little tidbit I'll leave you with is that brass just then gave me the strongest scum read. Strategically puts me at L-2, doesn't draw too much attention to himself and gives a half-arsed reason why.

[brassherald]

You are literally telling us not to vote you if you are scummy, that's a new scum tactic I've seen a whole bunch.

[keyenpeydee]

Vote count 1.05

---

[L-2] ArthurConyl

- votato, Mikul, brassherald,

[1] Town looter

- ArthurConyl,

[5] Not Voting

- VexoOssa, mutesa1, Porkens, Town looter, Anthony87,

MOD NOTES

: I've fixed all the vote counts. Apparently, I put votato on every vc twice (one is in Not Voting). Please let me know if I did some errors on a vc. Thanks and Good luck!
With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch. Day One will end in

(expired on 2020-06-30 20:00:00)

.
#AllBlackLivesMatter

[Mikul]

Arthur there is clear intent to hammer. You may as well claim at this point

[Mikul]

I'll let the group speak for themselves but you are likely the target for this dp unless something drastically changes

[Anthony87]

Sorry I didn't vote when I posted my last message, this is my first forum game and I honestly wasn't sure if voting before discussion about our thoughts was normal (I saw someone else use FoS without voting before so I wasn't sure). I was ready then and I'm ready now to L-1 Arthur for the reasons I posted before. Isn't it normal for people to claim when they get down to L-2/L-1? He just threw a tantrum.

VOTE: ArthurConyl L-1

[Porkens]

You are literally telling us not to vote you if you are scummy, that's a new scum tactic I've seen a whole bunch.

It’s not what he said, though.

[Mikul]

If someone hammers, you are dying next dp and you make this game significantly harder than it has to be.

We will give arthur a chance to claim and use the rest of this dp to keep talking. It's to early to end it

[votato]

UNVOTE:

[votato]

Sorry I didn't vote when I posted my last message, this is my first forum game and I honestly wasn't sure if voting before discussion about our thoughts was normal (I saw someone else use FoS without voting before so I wasn't sure). I was ready then and I'm ready now to L-1 Arthur for the reasons I posted before. Isn't it normal for people to claim when they get down to L-2/L-1? He just threw a tantrum.

VOTE: ArthurConyl L-1

don't care for this all that much. Still better than brass' vote

[Mikul]

@porkyboi

This is scummier than the first because the reason is unnecessary, but it’s still there...why do you need to justify an rvs vote at all?

this was a meme and a reaction test for the first part of the game.

This, however, is the scummiest rvs vote there is. Pretending to actually randomize the vote is the epitome of “you can’t read into this vote”. Remember that town should try to become townread. This pseudorandom vote (and by the way it’s against the rules to use provable randomness like the dice tags to vote) is actively avoiding being read at all.

I actually didn't give this much thought, but it's a solid point

I don’t like this unvote at all. Why are you afraid of having someone get to l-1? It makes me think you are either their partner trying to protect them or you are scum who knows they are a mislynch and trying to get town points for getting off the wagon.

I don't think anyone liked this

This seems like an overreaction to me overall. Why not address the accusation head on, instead of discrediting the line of inquiry? I’m not going to get into the meta of meta right now, but I’ll just say this: The Meta is Real.

The accusation head on was that I was not abiding by my meta which does not exist. I would need multiple games on here to have one, which I don't. As far as pointing out why it's a bad idea, I hate bogging down games with "meta" reads, because more often than not, they tend me wrong if not just flat horrible because they are easily abused.

so to tldr this

1) I had no meta to look at so it's an invalid point
2) Even if he thought I had a meta, it's still a bad idea to observe meta behavior instead of looking at behavior in the game at hand. You can use meta as a way to add to reads, but not the sole reason for a read. at least imo

Again, this reads as hyper defensive to me. I’m not ready to call it scum though, as defensiveness comes down more to personality than alignment in my opinion. I don’t think it’s good play as either alignment tho.

nice to meet you, you will see a great deal more of it. I'm really aggressive, and I like to push peoples buttons

The thinking aloud about votato strikes me as odd here.

To clarify, what bugged me about votato was that he was actively posting in other games and not contributing to this one. I also found it weird that he started the game with an "intro post" that seemed awfully friendly. I typically read over games of some people just to have reason to add umph to my choices. Meaning if i'm leaning scum on arthur in this game, I may just a "meta" read, to help me decide on that vote. It's like I said above, while it's not the sole reason for the vote, it's a contributing factor. I just found at that current point, it seemed off his character or what I have seen from him in other games

This “vote me and you deserve to lose” always rubs me the wrong way. Not saying it’s always scum but anytime a player frames the argument as “agree with me or you are stupid”, it pings me the wrong way.

There is no agree with me, That post was just objectively stupid.

What did you get out of it?

a list of people who got on the wagon. This specifically is relevant to Arthur because of that nervous unvote which is the basis of my read, and I would imagine the basis of a lot of reads on him at the moment. Granted I did not pick up on this and it took someone pointing it out, but it was still a result of what the "gambit" at the start with fluff posting

I’m not checking right now but we’re you voting Arthur at this time? If not, why not lay down a vote after your case?

this was the post I voted him, well one post after this if i'm not mistaken. Posted this and put my vote on him to split the posts so I could keep the thoughts separated from the vote itself. It was roughly within a minute i'm sure. The reason I was not on him before I posted this was because someone pointed out the behavior to me and I agreed with it. I forget who it was, I think TL

If Arthur is scum, this is his partner. No reason not to advance the wagon after agreeing with it in substance, and even worse to hedge so verbally.

I noticed this post as odd as well. Not enough to warrant an indepth discussion but enough to tingle my spidey senses.

It is possible to be a toxic jerk and win games because you trigger people and drive people out of their minds and piss them off to where they get demoralized and basically quit. But try to remember that you are playing a game with humans who have feelings and want to have fun. It’s not fun to play with a toxic ass, and it’s kind of missing the point.

maybe not for them, but for me it is. It's a really good way to get reactions from people especially if they are town. Town tends to get more frustrated when they can't adequately convey their case or get people to listen. You can often pick up on this, so I use this as a way to try to get people flustered. I'm not actively ad homing people (most of the time), but yeah putting fire under people, can be a good idea.

Running someone up to l-1 and forcing a claim is SOP. Massclaiming in open games on my day one helps the scum more than the town.

this may have been lost in interpretation, but he said *claims*. I was assuming he meant asking around for claims, not getting a claim from someone that is about to be hammered. I assumed that was common knowledge if any mafia. If you are going down, you have no reason not to claim because if you claim something that can change the mind of others, then it's better than being lynched. I picked that up on probing for claims but def could have misinterpreted.

[Mikul]

Also still waiting for Arthur to claim

[votato]

arthur has no reason to claim, since arthur is at L-2. scumpoints to you for claimfishing. and you scumread me for lurking? im pretty middle of the pack... and my posts include a lot of AI content. but i do tend to pick up steam as the game does. boring games bore me. early game is boring.

[Mikul]

That is not roll fishing, you removed your vote off for the vote that put him at L-1. Roll fishing is making someone claim for no reason, asking for a claim when hes likely the daily lynch is not.

[brassherald]

First wagon is rarely the daily lynch. We'll dance around and then there will be some people who decide to take a stand on some reason not to lynch the best choice, then we'll end up on a compromise lynch. Whether the compromise is a good lynch is yet to be seen, but its very rare for Day 1 to end differently in my experience.

[Mikul]

Fair enough, I don't think I can get off that one either way. At least I don't expect myself to. With the current activity level in this game, I can't see enough posts being generated to change my mind. Maybe I misread that and overstepped but was assuming l2 or l1, there was an intent to hammer or at least intent for a claim.

[Mikul]

for a variety of reasons at this point, even looking back at his iso i don't see any reads he has himself that are notable. It all seems mostly fluff and just trying to engage with people instead of offering insight. I def see that as scummy as well. The tantrum that he through over being nearly lynched I also don't read as town. I think town is typically pissed when they can't convey a point, instead of what is happening to them or in the game. I don't think he's really event attempted to convey a read and that is frustration that he may have been caught

he also could be a noob


but its hard to look past everything he has done so far.

[Town looter]

Anyone else want to vote me? I'm done with this game. Actually surprised at how smart people think they are, considering all they know is shit. One more vote please. It really do be a case of if town is this dumb, they don't deserve to win. One little tidbit I'll leave you with is that brass just then gave me the strongest scum read. Strategically puts me at L-2, doesn't draw too much attention to himself and gives a half-arsed reason why.

No one thinks they're smart, well maybe they do, but my point is we are trying to poke and probe you because you were/are the scummiest thing we have available. That poking and probing has worked a treat - you have provided a large reaction. Your appeal to emotion (or appeal to something...?) doesn't help matters.

Both votato, myself and others have thrown you life-lines, comments that you could have used to help build a defense and get back on track. You have, mostly, ignored them and proceeded to get more frustrated. I think this is because you are scum (yes, my previous wishy-washyness has gone based on recent posts), and your win condition is being severely jeopardized. I think a town reaction would be more relaxed - Town!Arthur's win condition will still be achievable even if they are mislynched on day 1.

L-1

- VOTE: Arthur -

L-1

[Porkens]

I can’t respond to everything right now but Arthur, if you can look past your own predicament, just try to help the town by giving us your reads on other players with reasons if possible. And a tip: as much as possible divorce those reads from how they have interacted with you. Try to show your objective thoughts.

[Town looter]

If someone hammers, you are dying next dp and you make this game significantly harder than it has to be.

We will give arthur a chance to claim and use the rest of this dp to keep talking. It's to early to end it

LOL.

But yes, reads from Arthur would be good.

Then if one of the other people not on the wagon wants to hammer after the reads, then I assume that's when he claims?

Based on the response to my earlier question, I don't think he needs to claim right now - reads first.

[Porkens]

Alternatively Arthur, if you are scum and you don’t think it’s likely that you will convince us not to lynch you, it is acceptable to self hammer (only as scum) in order to prevent giving us more clues about your partner.

I encourage you to try and save yourself regardless of alignment, but I also believe it’s worth pointing out to be fair to those who rolled scum.

[Town looter]

First wagon is rarely the daily lynch. We'll dance around and then there will be some people who decide to take a stand on some reason not to lynch the best choice, then we'll end up on a compromise lynch. Whether the compromise is a good lynch is yet to be seen, but its very rare for Day 1 to end differently in my experience.

How many first wagon targets react the way Arthur has thou?

[ArthurConyl]

So Mikul wants reads, I will do that before self-hammering.
Mikul - leaning town. Seemed pretty good getting reads, analysed a fair bit as well.
Town looter - leaning scum. Seemed to be pushing hard at the start, never put a vote down, now he pushes for L-1.
Brassherald - acting like an idiot voting for me like that, but not scum. Feels like townie who thinks he's a smart ass.
Porkens - needs more posts to tell.
votato - leaning town
Anthony - needs more posts.
Au revoir, may the best team win (probably scum at this point).
VOTE: Arthur

[Mikul]

did you actually just self hammer