At the end of my post, I suggested Guiltylion had clipped me because when I went to submit it, the post popped up as a new reply, and I didn't want people to think I'd written Guilty's part after seeing what he'd posted.
But then it turns out I just hadn't refreshed the page recently enough on my phone. So it was my own fault.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:21 am
by clidd
I may be slow to post again, there are many things that are tingling in my head right now.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:23 am
by midwaybear
Apparently, I am “experienced”
I was semi following this game, so I’m going to catch up now.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:24 am
by clidd
clidd wrote:I may be slow to post again, there are many things that are tingling in my head right now.
Game-related, of course. Nothing personal.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:27 am
by Pearofclubs
In post 114, GuiltyLion wrote:I just had a game finish with scum!Ydrasse and her posting in this game feels a lot more organic and focused to me, as scum she would pretend to be sorting a ton of different slots all at once and shotgun questions to everybody whereas here I think she's genuinely chasing leads. I agree with her read on mujie's latest reply as well.
I'm ambivalent about pearofclubs and I also strongly dislike the way SJReaver has accused me of being 'quiet' as well as the way SJ gave such a free townread on mujie at the start.
I want to +1 Ydrasse's point about 105, sitting from my POV knowing I'm town, that feels like scum doing a lazy WK more than town who genuinely is confused about the votes on me. pearofclubs is careful not to express whether or not they'd be willing to vote me or what his read on me is, I think town who hadn't seen any issues with my posts would be more likely to defend me a bit there.
VOTE: pearofclubs
Now that I've gotten around to it, can I ask whether you understand the basis for them voting you? It seemed sort of out of nowhere. And I'd have thought asking them why they're voting you, did I miss something should have been enough of an indicator that i don't scumread you.
To make it perfectly clear, I don't scumreads you at the moment.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:53 am
by SJReaver
The heck you guys talking so much when GuiltyLion is Mafia?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:58 am
by Pearofclubs
I still have no idea what you guys are basing that accusation on, but I cant imagine scum being so blatant so I end up townreading both of you for it? Does that make any sense?
In post 97, GuiltyLion wrote:Why are you saying I'm quiet? I feel that's a pretty significant mischaracterization of my play.
SJReaver, if you are going to vote me then you owe me a response to this question. Why are you saying I'm quiet? What would you expect me to comment on as town that I did not comment on?
SJREAVER
I am asking you a question. If you are ignoring me intentionally, come out and say it.
It's legit rude to repeatedly ignore questions like this, and anti-town. If/when I flip, people will see that my intentions were pure and you were purposefully denying me an opportunity to talk with you and help address your concerns and help me to continue to sort you. That will make you more likely to be eliminated in subsequent days, and if you are town you owe it to me and everyone else in the game to show that you're operating in good faith.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:39 pm
by GuiltyLion
In post 129, Pearofclubs wrote:
Now that I've gotten around to it, can I ask whether you understand the basis for them voting you? It seemed sort of out of nowhere. And I'd have thought asking them why they're voting you, did I miss something should have been enough of an indicator that i don't scumread you.
To make it perfectly clear, I don't scumreads you at the moment.
I don't understand and that's why I'm repeatedly pressing SJReaver about it. Calling me 'quiet', one RL day into the game, when I am clearly playing and doing things, is disingenuous and the fact that he's not acknowledging it at all is starting to piss me off. I hate being accused of being lurky or not playing when I am in fact taking hours out of my day to play a game with people.
In post 131, Pearofclubs wrote:I still have no idea what you guys are basing that accusation on, but I cant imagine scum being so blatant so I end up townreading both of you for it? Does that make any sense?
Still would like to know why, though :p
I don't think that makes sense. Why is SJReaver town for calling me quiet and then ignoring my attempts to defend myself and engage with him? Ignoring the fact that I am actually here giving further reads/content to sort me by? Joking that there's no need to talk about anything else today?
The only way it works out to be pro-town is if I'm actually scum and there's some possibility that I'll crack/fold under pressure of being accused of not talking. Which, frankly, is pretty dumb as I have 70+ games under my belt and I've survived as either alignment being accused of far worse. And even if you are convinced I'm scum, forcing me to continue to pretend to scumhunt and interact with other players would give town more interactions to use later to try to find my partner.
But the larger point is that I'm
not
scum, and every post he spends tunneling me instead of working with me (or anyone else) is a post that doesn't generate any useful information after I'm revealed town. I always try to keep my head centered on what the game looks like if I'm wrong and the chosen elimination du jour is a mistaken one.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:46 pm
by GuiltyLion
In post 127, midwaybear wrote:Apparently, I am “experienced”
I was semi following this game, so I’m going to catch up now.
what do you mean by "semi following" the game - were you reading along?
did you have any reads/thoughts prior to officially replacing in? I find it odd you didn't share those here if you had
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:49 pm
by midwaybear
i was skimming along. My only read was that you were town based on 6 and 9, but I'm working on a larger post right now which explains it. I also have a scumread on mujie, and it should be explained too
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:51 pm
by SJReaver
Catching up.
First up: Greetings opcleaver and midwaybear
I see some other people tossing questions my way. I'll answer them tonight. But for the future, be sure to bold my name or quote me directly or @ me if you're looking for a response. That way I'm less likely to miss it.
In post 97, GuiltyLion wrote:Why are you saying I'm quiet? I feel that's a pretty significant mischaracterization of my play.
SJReaver, if you are going to vote me then you owe me a response to this question. Why are you saying I'm quiet? What would you expect me to comment on as town that I did not comment on?
I asked if you’re usually this quiet on day 1. It wasn’t an accusation; I wanted to know more about your playstyle.
What I got was some bizarre knee-jerk defensiveness where you pull up a picture of everyone’s posting levels (who does that?), explain to me that you’re voting with the leading wagon (so what?), and how the game just started yesterday (like that matters).
It’s like asking someone what time it is and having them go on about the superiority of their watch and then say I’m slandering their time-keeping abilities.
All that and you never answered the question.
Anyways, people mostly ignored my vote. You're drawing more attention to yourself right now than I did.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:53 pm
by SJReaver
In post 135, midwaybear wrote:i was skimming along. My only read was that you were town based on 6 and 9, but I'm working on a larger post right now which explains it. I also have a scumread on mujie, and it should be explained too
Looking forward to some fresh eyes.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:03 pm
by mujie
In post 130, SJReaver wrote:The heck you guys talking so much when GuiltyLion is Mafia?
This was a bit of a strange reaction from you.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:10 pm
by SJReaver
It is a special moment in every young girl's life when she gets her first scumreading.
Now I want to hang him and see if I'm right.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:15 pm
by WaltertheDunce10
K?
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:22 pm
by GuiltyLion
In post 136, SJReaver wrote:I asked if you’re usually this quiet on day 1. It wasn’t an accusation; I wanted to know more about your playstyle.
What I got was some bizarre knee-jerk defensiveness where you pull up a picture of everyone’s posting levels (who does that?), explain to me that you’re voting with the leading wagon (so what?), and how the game just started yesterday (like that matters).
It’s like asking someone what time it is and having them go on about the superiority of their watch and then say I’m slandering their time-keeping abilities.
All that and you never answered the question.
Anyways, people mostly ignored my vote. You're drawing more attention to yourself right now than I did.
It
WAS
an accusation. You framed it leadingly, by saying "are you always this quiet" you're asserting that I am quiet. This is wrong and obnoxious and yes it did make me tilted because I hate being accused of not playing.
Lots of people pull up everyone's posting levels. I guarantee you I am nowhere near the first person to do that. It's proof that you're being disingenuous about my activity and preserves the post count at that time for the rest of the game, since that is going to change as we keep playing.
It matters that I'm voting the leading wagon because that's presence in the game. Of people using their votes to pressure Mujie and generate info, mine was among the most valuable.
and finally IT DOES MATTER THAT THE GAME STARTED YESTERDAY. I have a life. I have a job. I live with a partner. I
don't
live on this site and I seriously resent it when I feel obligated to be checking the thread every hour cause some 24/7 memeposter is gonna accuse me of being 'quiet' otherwise. I hate that. It sends me. It makes me question why I bother to play at all.
What answer would you want to that question? "Yes, SJReaver, you are right, I am always quiet and have fewer than 30 posts within 24 hours of thread opening"? "No, SJReaver, I always lead in post count and since I haven't yet I am scum in this game, whoops, ya caught me"? Like what?? It was a pointless accusatory question, and I gave it a response worthy of such.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:27 pm
by GuiltyLion
In post 139, SJReaver wrote:It is a special moment in every young girl's life when she gets her first scumreading.
Now I want to hang him and see if I'm right.
in fact I gave that post an entirely reasonable response. I challenged you straight up on why you said I was quiet. I was patient and gave several reasons why I categorically disagreed that I was being 'quiet'. now you're getting anger and frustration from me because you're pretending like there wasn't an accusation there when there clearly was.
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:33 pm
by GuiltyLion
In post 136, SJReaver wrote:Anyways, people mostly ignored my vote. You're drawing more attention to yourself right now than I did.
also
the point of this whole thing is not to not draw attention to myself
I don't care about the votes on me
what I care about is why you said I was quiet
In post 131, Pearofclubs wrote:I still have no idea what you guys are basing that accusation on, but I cant imagine scum being so blatant so I end up townreading both of you for it? Does that make any sense?
Still would like to know why, though :p
I don't think that makes sense. Why is SJReaver town for calling me quiet and then ignoring my attempts to defend myself and engage with him? Ignoring the fact that I am actually here giving further reads/content to sort me by? Joking that there's no need to talk about anything else today?
It's entirely possible it doesn't make sense.
I was more talking about the way that SJ and Bee have been acting since they voted, with Bee offering no explanation for their vote and then disappearing entirely, and SJ making the comment that he did. It seems like if they were scum they wouldn't be so... blatant? I don't feel like that's exactly the right word but it's the one that comes to mind.
So I apologise if I didn't get my meaning across properly before.
I find this sequence town-indicative towards GuiltyLion because it reads to me like something done to promote discussion. SJReaver had just posted, so it may have been done to try to get him to engage. I don't really see any scum-motivation for this, so could GuiltyLion be town 9 posts in
mujie seems a little scummy to me from 14. I think SJReaver's question on scumhunting was addressed to GuiltyLion, so it seems like mujie was looking for a way to pocket or gain favor with SJReaver.
In post 20, mujie wrote:Thinking about it that way, it’s definitely a possibility that SJ is maf, but I’m not yet ready to vote for him
Are you scumreading SJ just because he wrote a detailed post?
In post 21, clidd wrote:which is in conflict with another impression that says you are not a newbie and you already owned/has a forum account (which implies that you are a secret alt).
I feel like clidd could be town based on this. It's mostly just gut, and I don't want to be conf-biasing myself into an unwarrented townread but I just don't think clidd takes this stance as scum.
In post 27, SJReaver wrote:You don't know how happy it makes me that you think I might be an alt.
This is a sort of deflection which I don't like, but he proceeds to answer clidd's intended question. Meh
In post 34, SJReaver wrote:Mujie is an interesting guy. He feels very trustworthy to me.
Gives me a strong townie vibe, what about you?
Seems like the pocket worked
I don't really understand mujie's vote on SJReaver and it is suspicious to me because people were calling him out for buddying with him.
clidd, so you are townreading SJReaver because you think mafia would be more opportunistic in casting doubt on his claim? But that argument falls apart if he is mafia.
In post 64, mujie wrote:The second reason I was hesitant to vote was because people had accused me of buddying up, so if I was maf, I’d vote for SJ to dodge those accusations. Once I decided I’d rather do what I think is right than what might be seen as suspicious, I made up my mind to vote.
Ok? But WHY do you scumread SJ? I don't really get the progression and it seems like a weird backtrack.
In post 72, GuiltyLion wrote:clidd you really gotta make your posts less wordy my dude
I try to start reading these sentences and they have so many unnecessary clauses that my eyes glaze over within seconds
Thinking the same thing.
In post 70, clidd wrote:The tonality of his posts seems to me more relaxed, with the absence of apprehension that a scum mentality with a cognitive load would have.
He legit admitted that he thought voting SJ would make him look scummy which seems self conscious to me.
In post 87, Ydrasse wrote:oh. i... read it as an interpretation to mine LMFAO.
okay. okay. i am going to pretend this never happened.
p-edit: is there a particular reason why you think clidd should stop posting so much?
ydrasse caught! I also thought clidd wasn't answering her question, so I believe she doesn't really care about the answers she is recieving and is just asking questions to look townie.
In post 103, Pearofclubs wrote:Little things like these contradictions and minor inconsistencies his posts, and defensively predicting people scumreading him for doing something (right as he does that something) are at the moment the most suspicious behavior that I'm seeing.
Basically my case on mujie.
In post 105, Pearofclubs wrote:I'm not sure I understand your votes. Did I miss something about Guiltylion? I'm gonna have to reread his posts.
Wow even more mindmelding. I guess Pearofclubs is town!
Hm I sorta want to townread mujie for 107. He talks about "not wanting to give mafia ideas", and while I believe discussion is pro-town I also believe that he was genuine in believing that and it wasn't just some way to dodge the question. Now, I can sorta see what clidd was saying and I think it's just that mujie approaches the game differently.
Ydrasse, I can totally see Pearofclubs being hesitant town.
Ok, I think I'm mostly caught up. Will be trying to be more interactive now. I think mujie and GuiltyLion are both town, and that is the extent of my confident reads. I don't like SJ's push on GuiltyLion regarding being "quiet", and I'm not sure whether that comes from scum or town. It's a bad faith push for me right now. I think some pressure will help sort things out VOTE: SJReaver
Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:12 pm
by Umlaut
I'm semi-V/LA until Monday; I'll be around here and there, but probably less responsive. Please PM me if anything requires immediate attention.
I'm not sure I understand your votes. Did I miss something about Guiltylion? I'm gonna have to reread his posts.
And yes, Beeboy, Sj's energy is great fun
Thank you. I was thinking today that instead of doing the usual hanging route, we could do something more seasonal, and BBQ people who are voted guilty. Or toss them in the swimming pool with lead boots. Or something else related to a summer party and grill.
Did my last post convey why I voted for GuiltyLion?
I'm worried now that I showed my hand too early. Maybe I should have been quiet about my read instead of alerting him so fast.
In post 107, mujie wrote:
2. Well, after your question 1, I'm suspicious of you. I don't know how old a player you are and I'm not gonna check your post history, because I don't want to metagame this. On the one hand, you're an SE, and I'm not arrogant enough to think you'd learn anything from my answer to the question. On the other hand, you're an SE. You should know better than to ask a question that would give hints to the mafia. (Again, this depends on how old a player you are. So, if you don't mind me asking, what's your experience on the site? Asking you about it is fair game to me, but spying, not my style.)
My other other biggest suspect is Beeboy. SJReaver didn't give much of a reason for his vote on Guilty.
So SJ, what was your reason for voting for Guilty?
The strange thing though is the Beeboy jumped on straight away, implying the reason was because of SJ's energy. So Beeboy, did you have another reason for voting for guilty?
His answer struck me as being well out of proportion to the question. At that point, I said I had a null reading on him and hadn't voted for anyone. Yet, he decided I was accusing him and deliberately mischaracterizing his play when I asked how quiet he usually was.
You mentioned meta. I think it's generally considered okay to go through a person's previous posts to get a feel for them.
In post 131, Pearofclubs wrote:I still have no idea what you guys are basing that accusation on, but I cant imagine scum being so blatant so I end up townreading both of you for it? Does that make any sense?
Still would like to know why, though :p
You think I’m a townie… because I’m so scummy?
I don’t know how to feel about that.
@Ydrasse -- Did you have a question for me? I thought you asked something earlier, but I cant' find it now.
an accusation. You framed it leadingly, by saying "are you always this quiet" you're asserting that I am quiet. This is wrong and obnoxious and yes it did make me tilted because I hate being accused of not playing.
Lots of people pull up everyone's posting levels. I guarantee you I am nowhere near the first person to do that. It's proof that you're being disingenuous about my activity and preserves the post count at that time for the rest of the game, since that is going to change as we keep playing.
It matters that I'm voting the leading wagon because that's presence in the game. Of people using their votes to pressure Mujie and generate info, mine was among the most valuable.
and finally IT DOES MATTER THAT THE GAME STARTED YESTERDAY. I have a life. I have a job. I live with a partner. I
don't
live on this site and I seriously resent it when I feel obligated to be checking the thread every hour cause some 24/7 memeposter is gonna accuse me of being 'quiet' otherwise. I hate that. It sends me. It makes me question why I bother to play at all.
What answer would you want to that question? "Yes, SJReaver, you are right, I am always quiet and have fewer than 30 posts within 24 hours of thread opening"? "No, SJReaver, I always lead in post count and since I haven't yet I am scum in this game, whoops, ya caught me"? Like what?? It was a pointless accusatory question, and I gave it a response worthy of such.
So you're angry because I fail to appreciate the time and sacrifice you put into a game?
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
