In post 20, T3 wrote:What if the scumteam is just wayward and egix and we don't even have to think about anything at all this game. That would be fun
This was a terrible joke I had made under 4 hours of sleep and then 4 hours of zoom class in my break.
That's understandable! But that's also exactly why I didn't like it. You made a "push" that you could say was just a joke if anyone pressured you about it.
In post 101, Roden wrote:Though looking at the vote count it looks like some people already have some spicy takes early into the game.
what does this mean?
There were two very fast wagons and some serious accusations thrown around very early into Day 1. It's just surprising seeing people push hard on their votes so early into the game.
In post 116, Lukewarm wrote:Roden, did you have any thoughts about my Meta case against T3?
Spoiler:
(Don't mention my first 2 links, but the 3rd town game and the scum game are both legal, plus my summary of his town game vs scum game from my experience).
OR about The Buldge's contribution
In post 81, The Bulge wrote:If you'd like some legal meta, I just modded a large normal where scumT3 laid down some incredibly bizarre distancing tactics D1 before being eliminated that ultimately factored into his team's win. giving me similar vibes here.
OR about T3's "rebuttal" to the meta case?
In post 46, T3 wrote:I think that's fair, but you should also note that the Demainer vote was a bus. So your theory only works if I'm scum with Wayward.
I find it strange that you read this thread, and did not have a single thought about it (agree or disagree) given how many people have chimed into this conversation. And you instead hand waved that all as "Just analyzing RVS votes"
I was mainly giving reads because I was coming in late on a slot that said literally nothing and you guys kinda needed something to work with. I don't think it's particularly suspicious of me to not comment on it considering I had my own unique worries with T3.
I don't really disagree with the meta sus and I think T3's defense is pretty awful. But a few days ago I also fully read the game the two of you were in (completely by chance btw, I just chose a recently finished newbie game so I could see how they play out), and T3 got scum read hard there but turned out to be town. You also ended up aligning yourself with both scum, and scum read the most obvious town player in the game.
Point being, idk how much credit to give your meta sus. I'd rather trust my own scum read of T3.
In post 33, Zyla wrote:I'll be honest, I wasn't even thinking about the fact that I was responding to the person I was voting, I just used a random picker and got Wayward's name
Random is a lame reason to vote for someone IMO. It doesn't really encourage any discussion or have inspire any fear of being lynched. Even the first post of the thread had a reason to vote for someone! So that's my reason to VOTE: Zyla
I'll start off by saying this is such a weird take. Zyla's vote was during RVS, why shouldn't it be random? If anything, trying to give a legitimate reason for votes during RVS feels a bit scummy.
Though I'll admit I don't have a read on Zyla yet. I kinda get the feeling they're an experienced newbie, since their posts feel a little controlled/revised and they're mentioning some outside experience. I'll say they're townleaning for now because of a hunch.
Next, I'm seeing a
lot
of pressure on Wayward for very little reason. I thought at first people were just testing for reactions, but it feels like way too many people are looking too deeply into a couple fluffy posts of theirs. They of course could still be scum but it feels more likely actual scum are putting early pressure on them. Maybe to make them dig their own grave? The more they talk the worse it does look for them, but nothing they're posting reads as particularly scummy.
T3's giving me weird vibes. Only five posts so far (at the time of writing this), the first few posts had literally no content, and anything with content just reads as...well, not scummish but definitely not town.
In post 20, T3 wrote:What if the scumteam is just wayward and egix and we don't even have to think about anything at all this game. That would be fun
This especially just weirds me out. Why make this post during RVS but then not actually vote? It feels low key manipulative and helped jump start the current Wayward wagon. Though him reaching E-2 so quickly also kind of worries me. If anyone puts him at E-1, they need to get looked at.
Lukewarm reads as helpful, but I wouldn't say he's done anything to deserve a town read tbh. Anybody can analyze RVS phase posts and look good, there's literally zero danger to it. But at the same time, he's not really setting off any scum vibes. We've seen a lot from him but I feel like I need more that isn't just him analyzing everyone's RVS posts.
Mix gives me similar vibes. Though I'm noticing they also both seemed to buddy up almost immediately. Have you two played together before?
The Bulge reads pretty heavily town. I mainly just like his posting patterns, and him zeroing in on Wayward, even though I disagree with the suspicion itself, reads as genuine. He's putting pressure but letting others react instead of building a case himself.
Absolutely no read on Egix yet, he hasn't posted much or given anyone anything to work with yet. I'd like to see some opinions from him on the current votes and ask if he has any reads.
In post 105, Roden wrote:Lukewarm reads as helpful, but I wouldn't say he's done anything to deserve a town read tbh. Anybody can analyze RVS phase posts and look good, there's literally zero danger to it.
But at the same time, he's not really setting off any scum vibes.
We've seen a lot from him but I feel like I need more that isn't just him analyzing everyone's RVS posts.
To me, it looks like you scum read Xlos the most, but ended up voting someone who "isn't giving off scum vibes"? Why Luke over someone (T3) who's giving off weird vibes?
Personally, Bulge, Mix, and Luke are my strongest TRs.
Egix is a gut TR.
Because I didn't want to put T3 at hammer range so soon into Day 1. I voted Luke because he had zero pressure on him and I wanted to see how he'd react. Also wanted to see if anyone would jump on it or come to his defense. I got exactly what I wanted and feel like I can town read him a bit more comfortably now.
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 11:28 am
by Roden
Gave it some thought, I kinda want to hammer. T3 isn't walking away from Day 1 without major suspicion if he survives. If he's town, scum definitely won't kill him. Day 2 will be rough unless T3 comes up with a S-tier defense here.
This is either a lazy hero solve or a reactionary one. Either way it's teetering on OMGUS. Which townreads a little bit better.
To be fair, my scum read on you is mild, but it has nothing to do with the vote on me, and everything to do with not liking post 105.
In post 126, Roden wrote:
I don't really disagree with the meta sus and I think T3's defense is pretty awful. But a few days ago I also fully read the game the two of you were in (completely by chance btw, I just chose a recently finished newbie game so I could see how they play out), and T3 got scum read hard there but turned out to be town. You also ended up aligning yourself with both scum, and scum read the most obvious town player in the game.
Point being, idk how much credit to give your meta sus. I'd rather trust my own scum read of T3.
This is fair. Although, this was, I believe my first game with T3, and we have been in like 5 games together since then. I think I am getting a better feel for him. T3 often gets scum because of the normal way he posts as town. If anything, 37 stood out for not being a lim-bait post
At this point, I am fairly confident on the T3 scum read. Post 20 piqued my interest, then the meta stuff about 37 made it enough for me to bring up and pressure him for, but his response in 46 is what has really gotten me to the point of confidence. I just do not see that response to a meta read coming from a Town mindset.
So, like I am glad that I pushed him over the meta stuff, but it is post 46 that I think is where people should look to decide if they want him to be the elim for today. I personally think it is pretty damning.
my best guess about his swap on his reads for me, you, and wayward son are just him trying to leave confusion on who he could be paired with once he flips.
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:06 pm
by Xlos
In post 128, Roden wrote:Gave it some thought, I kinda want to hammer. T3 isn't walking away from Day 1 without major suspicion if he survives. If he's town, scum definitely won't kill him. Day 2 will be rough unless T3 comes up with a S-tier defense here.
Give it some more time, I want to get more discussion out of day 1. I think I've been posting fairly suspiciously but I haven't had that much suspicion fall on me yet, so it's similar with the true mafia. I'd rather have another candidate so we can get more controversial choice, otherwise mafia will just kill lukewarm the next day and we haven't learned anything. Though I do appreciate shorter games. Who will day 2 be rough for? Presumably just T3. Interesting phrasing.
I just read the thread so now I'm going to re-read it and just list ideas that come to my head
Dependencies:
Lukewarm mafia => T3 town
- I don't think he would pursue his case so much. Lukewarm (I get confused when people shorten it to Luke) bringing it up later has indicated that he feels some level of pride in his post, which is another town read.
Xlos mafia => Mix mafia
I'm not telling how I know this. Mix hasn't talked too much since the start of the day so I'd like to hear his thoughts on what is going on. So far he's sparked some discussion though.
In post 37, T3 wrote:Bulge, what particularly stuck out to you about that? What stuck out to me was mostly that it was a brand newbie supposedly having read a bunch of games. This reads to me as if almost fake helpful and as if it was fed by a scumpartner.
In the queue I made it clear that I wasn't "a brand newbie", and was reading games. I urge everyone to give it a look.
Of all my accusers, this looks the worst.
VOTE: t3
I think you'll just have to accept that people don't usually read sign up threads after inning.
Note Egix votes T3 later, risking whatever suspicion Roden promises, a bit of a shift. But not surprising he said he did most of the analysis later. Overall Egix has town-like behavior. I like his long post cause it's the kind of post I've made when I was town with nice formatting and stuff (though I guess I've never been non town except for one game when I joke claimed scum in my first post and got lynched for it D1. I wasn't scum either though...)
In post 117, Egix96 wrote:
Xlos - Dislike 58 because it feels like trying to force something from nothing.
Zyla - Town feels from 59, also 41 is something that I don't feel like scum would normally broach the subject on.
It is what it feels like~ As for Zyla, I totally disagree about post 41 but w/e
T3 (a and Bulge make some claims with no reasoning which annoy me
I think Wayward son is pretty mafia-esque, his ISO seems to only have 'safe' posts and he doesn't really go after anyone. Content to stay on T3, but the first reason he cites for voting him isn't very good and he never updates his reasoning.
Roden's slow shift from not really suspecting T3 to wanting to hammer him seems fairly natural, town lean.
In post 33, Zyla wrote:I'll be honest, I wasn't even thinking about the fact that I was responding to the person I was voting, I just used a random picker and got Wayward's name
Random is a lame reason to vote for someone IMO. It doesn't really encourage any discussion or have inspire any fear of being lynched. Even the first post of the thread had a reason to vote for someone! So that's my reason to VOTE: Zyla
I'll start off by saying this is such a weird take. Zyla's vote was during RVS, why shouldn't it be random? If anything, trying to give a legitimate reason for votes during RVS feels a bit scummy.
Well proving that a vote random is a good way to alleviate any consequences of that vote having happened, I believe there is a rule in the forum saying that you can't prove things are random for that explicit reason. To be a bit pedantic, RVS should be Arbitrary Voting Stage instead.
no need to rush for a hammer as much as I feel like we've landed on scum with t3. the longer the days the more information we can get [to an extent]
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:25 pm
by The Bulge
In post 130, Xlos wrote:I'd rather have another candidate so we can get more controversial choice, otherwise mafia will just kill lukewarm the next day and we haven't learned anything.
are you assuming that t3 is mafia and lukewarm is town here? if so then why would you not want t3 to be today's elimination?
In post 130, Xlos wrote:I'd rather have another candidate so we can get more controversial choice, otherwise mafia will just kill lukewarm the next day and we haven't learned anything.
are you assuming that t3 is mafia and lukewarm is town here? if so then why would you not want t3 to be today's elimination?
I
think
he is saying that T3 is scum and I am town, but wants all to keep talking and trying to find a counter wagon so that the mafia will have a harder choice with their night kill? Honestly, the whole post from Xlos makes my head hurt
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:48 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 130, Xlos wrote:I think I've been posting fairly suspiciously but I haven't had that much suspicion fall on me yet
I think you have had like 4 total posts before this. And I have looked at them with a bit of suspicion, which is why I had you the category of
In post 66, Lukewarm wrote:"I need to hear more from you so I can tell if your posts sound off because you are scum or just because you are new"
Are you saying that you have been purposefully suspicious in order to gauge how town reacted to you? wtf?
Your whole post just now gives me a headache.
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:48 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 130, Xlos wrote:Xlos mafia => Mix mafia
I'm not telling how I know this.
Well, if it is true, I don't think you need to tell us how you know it
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 1:56 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 130, Xlos wrote:Lukewarm (I get confused when people shorten it to Luke)
...
Mix hasn't talked too much since the start of the day
How are you gonna be confused by people shortening Lukewarm -> Luke, but also feel comfortable shortening MixLixWix-> Mix lmao
Spoiler:
unless you are also named Luke, so you think people might be talking about you
In post 33, Zyla wrote:I'll be honest, I wasn't even thinking about the fact that I was responding to the person I was voting, I just used a random picker and got Wayward's name
Random is a lame reason to vote for someone IMO. It doesn't really encourage any discussion or have inspire any fear of being lynched. Even the first post of the thread had a reason to vote for someone! So that's my reason to VOTE: Zyla
I'll start off by saying this is such a weird take. Zyla's vote was during RVS, why shouldn't it be random? If anything, trying to give a legitimate reason for votes during RVS feels a bit scummy.
Well proving that a vote random is a good way to alleviate any consequences of that vote having happened, I believe there is a rule in the forum saying that you can't prove things are random for that explicit reason. To be a bit pedantic, RVS should be Arbitrary Voting Stage instead.
Ah, ok that makes a lot more sense actually. I also like your analysis post. I think you're hinting at something...which makes me want to rethink my hunch on Zyla, depending on what happens Day 2.
This is either a lazy hero solve or a reactionary one. Either way it's teetering on OMGUS. Which townreads a little bit better.
To be fair, my scum read on you is mild, but it has nothing to do with the vote on me, and everything to do with not liking post 105.
In post 126, Roden wrote:
I don't really disagree with the meta sus and I think T3's defense is pretty awful. But a few days ago I also fully read the game the two of you were in (completely by chance btw, I just chose a recently finished newbie game so I could see how they play out), and T3 got scum read hard there but turned out to be town. You also ended up aligning yourself with both scum, and scum read the most obvious town player in the game.
Point being, idk how much credit to give your meta sus. I'd rather trust my own scum read of T3.
This is fair. Although, this was, I believe my first game with T3, and we have been in like 5 games together since then. I think I am getting a better feel for him. T3 often gets scum because of the normal way he posts as town. If anything, 37 stood out for not being a lim-bait post
At this point, I am fairly confident on the T3 scum read. Post 20 piqued my interest, then the meta stuff about 37 made it enough for me to bring up and pressure him for, but his response in 46 is what has really gotten me to the point of confidence. I just do not see that response to a meta read coming from a Town mindset.
So, like I am glad that I pushed him over the meta stuff, but it is
post 46 that I think is where people should look
to decide if they want him to be the elim for today. I personally think it is pretty damning.
my best guess about his swap on his reads for me, you, and wayward son are just him trying to leave confusion on who he could be paired with once he flips.
I agree but especially with the bolded. His posts have been all over the place and I had no idea what he was doing for the longest time, since he seems so obvscum and isn't doing much to actually defend himself. I thought maybe he was just resigned to being voted out, but Bulge's meta sus about T3's weird distance strats rang some warning bells.
Assuming he flips scum, I think he started playing up his stated scum meta when it got brought up and further analyzed since it would be fair to assume we would start looking for it. I believe he wants to put you, me, and Wayward in a WIFOM situation in hope of keeping the focus on the three of us once Day 2 starts. It's not like anyone else is really getting looked at anyway, right?
Not saying the three of us are cleared btw. But I believe scum will want to keep the three of us alive no matter the results of the flip. Personally, I think Bulge dies tonight, and I'll be looking more closely at Egix, Mix, Xlos, and Zyla tomorrow, assuming I survive.
---
Btw, what didn't you like about post 105? I'm curious since the only other person who didn't seem to like it was your scum read.
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 6:35 pm
by Egix96
In post 126, Roden wrote:There were two very fast wagons and some serious accusations thrown around very early into Day 1. It's just surprising seeing people push hard on their votes so early into the game.
I mean, with the site meya we have here, it kinda has to happen or else nothing will happen.
Also, ftr, I didn't actually realise my vote was an E1 when I made it. Still fine with that tho.
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 6:36 pm
by Egix96
M e t a not meya
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 6:39 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 139, Roden wrote:Btw, what didn't you like about post 105? I'm curious since the only other person who didn't seem to like it was your scum read.
It felt very precise. Not sure if that is the right word, but I could see every single line of it being specially chosen to further a scum narrative.
Lightly defend two people who have come under fire (zyla / Wayward Son) to get them on your side, without actually committing to a read on them.
Give a stance on T3 that neither furthers the push on them or comes across as defending them - more of a "if they sink, they sink" kind of thing. Like what does "just reads as...well, not scummish but definitely not town" even mean ??
Then hand wave all of mine and Mix's content as just analyzing RVS in order to murky the thread's perception of us to stop two townies from getting hard TRs too early.
Quite honestly, that post felt like exactly the kind of post I would have made if I was scum walking into that slot given this game state. - So basically, I could picture scum me writing that exact post, so it set off some alarm bells.
But, like I said, it is a weak scum lean on you, and the rest of your posts don't necessarily give me that same vibe, so currently reevaluating
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 6:55 pm
by Lukewarm
As an aside, looking back at where you mentioned him in 105 reminded me of my own thoughts on Wayward Son.
He mentioned posting in the newbie queue about read up on games, and I followed up on it. The posts are are indeed there, and seeing his tone, he was obviously excited to get into his first game. So after following up in that thread, it put me with Wayward Son as probably just new-excited-town instead of scummy for their entrance.
Him throwing out so many TRs in post 124 also helps build that read on him imo. Like I think new scum would be more hesitant with those in case they needed to push any of those people out.
That being said, he is still pretty low in content, so I cant really put give him more then a light town lean.
In post 126, Roden wrote:There were two very fast wagons and some serious accusations thrown around very early into Day 1. It's just surprising seeing people push hard on their votes so early into the game.
I mean, with the site meya we have here, it kinda has to happen or else nothing will happen.
Also, ftr, I didn't actually realise my vote was an E1 when I made it. Still fine with that tho.
I guess. It just reads off to see someone skip RVS and seriously vote someone else based on their RVS.
Also, interesting to know about the vote but idk how that checks out. The post you voted T3 with explicitly says you spent a couple hours reading posts, and my only major post at the time mentioned that he was at E-2 and that anyone putting him at E-1 should be looked at. The part of my post you quoted and said you liked states this in the very next line. I'm not trying to fish for a "gotcha" moment here but I just find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have known.
In post 139, Roden wrote:Btw, what didn't you like about post 105? I'm curious since the only other person who didn't seem to like it was your scum read.
It felt very precise. Not sure if that is the right word, but I could see every single line of it being specially chosen to further a scum narrative.
Lightly defend two people who have come under fire (zyla / Wayward Son) to get them on your side, without actually committing to a read on them.
Give a stance on T3 that neither furthers the push on them or comes across as defending them - more of a "if they sink, they sink" kind of thing. Like what does "just reads as...well, not scummish but definitely not town" even mean ??
Then hand wave all of mine and Mix's content as just analyzing RVS in order to murky the thread's perception of us to stop two townies from getting hard TRs too early.
Quite honestly, that post felt like exactly the kind of post I would have made if I was scum walking into that slot given this game state. - So basically, I could picture scum me writing that exact post, so it set off some alarm bells.
But, like I said, it is a weak scum lean on you, and the rest of your posts don't necessarily give me that same vibe, so currently reevaluating
Interesting, I kinda get what you mean reading it now. The Zyla/Wayward defense was partially contrarian admittedly, but I also just wasn't getting any scum vibes off either of them like others were. I still don't have a good read on Zyla since she started posting less when the focus shifted away from her, though I can say Wayward is leaning more town with every post. I did note though that they both jumped on T3 after getting sussed themselves.
The T3 bit is because I couldn't tell if T3 was scum or just unhelpful/anti-town. He seemed way more active and solvey in another game, and a lot more stubborn too.
And the handwave is just because early town reads just seem unhelpful, I don't think town should tunnel on trusting those kinds of reads. Makes it easier for scum to mess up a NK too if they don't have a clear town read leader to auto-kill. Especially if we aren't guaranteed a Doctor/Jailer.
In post 143, Lukewarm wrote:As an aside, looking back at where you mentioned him in 105 reminded me of my own thoughts on Wayward Son.
He mentioned posting in the newbie queue about read up on games, and I followed up on it. The posts are are indeed there, and seeing his tone, he was obviously excited to get into his first game. So after following up in that thread, it put me with Wayward Son as probably just new-excited-town instead of scummy for their entrance.
Him throwing out so many TRs in post 124 also helps build that read on him imo. Like I think new scum would be more hesitant with those in case they needed to push any of those people out.
That being said, he is still pretty low in content, so I cant really put give him more then a light town lean.
I agree with this more or less.
Posted: Thu May 27, 2021 10:28 pm
by Roden
UNVOTE:
General question for everyone. What's usually worth looking more into? An E-2 vote or an E-1 vote?
And since I want to put my vote somewhere else, VOTE: Egix96
Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 12:29 am
by T3
Not sure.
The response to the post was me responding to your pointabout the specific post you brought up.
In post 101, Roden wrote:Though looking at the vote count it looks like some people already have some spicy takes early into the game.
what does this mean?
There were two very fast wagons and some serious accusations thrown around very early into Day 1. It's just surprising seeing people push hard on their votes so early into the game.
how did you glean that from looking at the vote count?
Posted: Fri May 28, 2021 2:42 am
by The Bulge
In post 139, Roden wrote:I agree but especially with the bolded. His posts have been all over the place and I had no idea what he was doing for the longest time, since he seems so obvscum and isn't doing much to actually defend himself. I thought maybe he was just resigned to being voted out, but Bulge's meta sus about T3's weird distance strats rang some warning bells.
Assuming he flips scum, I think he started playing up his stated scum meta when it got brought up and further analyzed since it would be fair to assume we would start looking for it. I believe he wants to put you, me, and Wayward in a WIFOM situation in hope of keeping the focus on the three of us once Day 2 starts. It's not like anyone else is really getting looked at anyway, right?
Not saying the three of us are cleared btw. But I believe scum will want to keep the three of us alive no matter the results of the flip. Personally, I think Bulge dies tonight, and I'll be looking more closely at Egix, Mix, Xlos, and Zyla tomorrow, assuming I survive.
I kinda like this theory, but I would be a terrible night kill, I'm scumreading half the game lol
energy"? 