Are you for real? Did you watch anything about how yesterday's lynch went down?
Or, as has been pointed out when other people keep asking me this same question over and over again, you can check out my iso. It's not very long.
Now let's see some more Ben votes, and maybe somebody can do us all a favor and vig CES tonight.
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:39 pm
by Tierce
OGML, you have given no reasoning for a Benmage wagon other than a throwaway comment in Post 1141. Why the surprise when people keep asking that question, when you are clearly capable of much more than what you have put out so far?
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:50 pm
by Tierce
Next question: OGML, how would you define your scum play?
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:00 pm
by OhGodMyLife
↑Tierce wrote:OGML, you have given no reasoning for a Benmage wagon other than a throwaway comment in Post 1141. Why the surprise when people keep asking that question, when you are clearly capable of much more than what you have put out so far?
Reasons to suspect Benmage should be self evident. You express suspicion of him yourself. It just feels like people keep tossing this throwaway question at me as an excuse to ignore Ben themselves.
↑Tierce wrote:Next question: OGML, how would you define your scum play?
↑Tierce wrote:OGML, you have given no reasoning for a Benmage wagon other than a throwaway comment in Post 1141. Why the surprise when people keep asking that question, when you are clearly capable of much more than what you have put out so far?
Reasons to suspect Benmage should be self evident. You express suspicion of him yourself. It just feels like people keep tossing this throwaway question at me as an excuse to ignore Ben themselves.
Okay, cards on the table.
I have no freaking idea why you suspect Benmage. I voted him because you were voting him, and at the point I went to look back at your vote it looked like you had
something
on him. By "something", I mean "investigation result".
However, it's no secret that Faraday was interested either in White Flag or a relatively simple Normal. I have no reason to think we are stacked with Town power in this game, and when we have had a 2-shot vanilla cop flip, an extra kill, a roleblocker and a tracker flip, I can no longer think, when I'm actually putting my brain on the game (which I wasn't last Day's end), that you have anything like actual evidence on Benmage. Conclusion: you seem to be full of crap, because "self-evident reasons" never pushed wagons. People are not ignoring Benmage at all, people are trying to get you to explain Benmage to see if they would have interest in voting him, and yet you keep refusing to give a straight answer.
Obviously, Yesterday I had no reason to explain why I thought Benmage might be a good wagon (that you might have a result), because keeping you hidden might yield another result from last Night. Yet you keep going on in the same vein with no further content, and the flips so far indicate you are very unlikely to be an investigative PR, so I have no issue with voicing my mind (since you have spoken after my last response to Empire). You seem completely disinterested in why I suspected Benmage.
Then we have the fact that I know your Town play is far more capable than what you have shown so far. That's why I asked about your scum play; until recently, I thought there was no scum motivation in your play, because frankly you are not putting in any inkling of an effort, and coming in like that to a slot already suspected seems suicidal as scum and was more likely to be Town not giving a damn because they have a PR to back their play--that is, you were trying to look just scummy enough that scum wouldn't be interested in offing you. Your Town play certainly seems smart enough to pull a move like that in the sense of some self-preservation.
↑Tierce wrote:Next question: OGML, how would you define your scum play?
Completely godawful.
And CES agrees with you:
Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:That does seem like an accurate assessment.
In short, I have to go meta you, because the little protective castle I wanted to build around your slot has completely blown away and I want to lynch the hell out of you for greater :justice: and Town wins. You have no excuse to be playing like shit if you are Town, because you don't have crap in terms of useful PR work to present, and you are telling me that your play so far seems to fit in very nicely with your scum play.
↑Llamarble wrote:Who did Zach replace again? Right Wjr. Oh he's confirmed vanilla. Still seems scummy though.
The specifics of the result also confirm him as town.
How do you know that Vi's role was the same as the vanilla cop in Zach's game? As far as I know, that is not Faraday's view on vanilla cops.
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:37 pm
by Tierce
Never mind that last post, CES. I've reread Post 962.
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:21 pm
by Tierce
One of the issues with OGML is that his games are mostly pretty old. I'd say the most relevant ones are from Micro 53 to American Revolution as Town, and Playground Mafia as scum.
Everything older than this is meta that is 2+ years old. A quick skim of the games above really doesn't incline me to do anything but vote OGML. :/ He was somewhat better in Playground Mafia, but there was still that rapid, pointless tunneling with little to no explanation, which he gives without any trouble in Town games.
Empire, if you could go through those a bit today/tomorrow/whenever, that'd be great. I know you suspect OGML, but I was trying to ignore that read because of what I posted above (and wanted to swat you when you kept pushing him), but yeah, there's no way this is investigative PR play, especially since the moment a Goon flips we know Zach MUST be Town.
Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:10 pm
by Nachomamma8
Vote: Benmage
hey benmage
welcome to critical mass
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:48 am
by Zachrulez
↑Empire wrote:Ok, remind me to never post again while drunk, those were really bad posts.
Shadoweh, I answered your question already at the end of the last Day. Bottom line is that I don't have any confident scumreads. The only read I have that is even close to a scumread right now is the N/OGML slot and even then I've been waffling on it due to the slot's interactions with CTD and N's replace out. I've made this pretty damn clear to anyone who actually bothers to read my posts.
The interactions with CTD were the only thing that kept me from voting the slot during the last dayphase if I'm remembering correctly. Now that I think about it, that's probably not a good enough reason. The replace out was a big fat null for me.
I'm really interested to see any reasons why Benmage is scum. I'm not inclined to suspect him for the hammer (If you put a wagon at lynch -1 you can pretty much count on him hammering it.) and I wasn't hugely inclined to suspect him even before that. If there's a real reason to suspect him, I'm missing it.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:05 am
by Zachrulez
Let's actually give a visual aid of all of OGML's mentions of Benmage.
↑CrashTextDummie wrote:Short answer: I haven't seen anything from him that indicates scum to me. This comment was mostly intended to get you and CES to do something more productive with your votes.
In the quote, 'him' is Vi, while 'you' is Benmage. Kind of coach-y, definitely a kid gloves approach. This is also one of the reasons I've been interested in Benmage, along with the l-1 'blame someone else' wagon hop on penguin. The other CES namecheck is here:
↑CrashTextDummie wrote:Johhog's CES vote is lazy and scummy. Instead of commenting on anything relevant going on or using his vote in a productive manner, he parks it on a player that has virtually no chance of getting wagoned based on his weak meta suspicion. Would vote.
Especially given the benefit of knowing Joh's alignment too, its a solid chainsaw defense.
Not much, I know, but enough for me to get off the sidelines, since people would rather whine at me than actually look at Benmage.
And no, I haven't finished reading the whole thread front to back yet. I'll get there.
I see CES suspicion explained to some degree here.
↑Tierce wrote:OGML, you have given no reasoning for a Benmage wagon other than a throwaway comment in Post 1141. Why the surprise when people keep asking that question, when you are clearly capable of much more than what you have put out so far?
Reasons to suspect Benmage should be self evident. You express suspicion of him yourself. It just feels like people keep tossing this throwaway question at me as an excuse to ignore Ben themselves.
↑Tierce wrote:Next question: OGML, how would you define your scum play?
Completely godawful.
Hey, you know that's a pretty accurate description of your play here.
Unvote: Vote: OGML
Oh, and you'll notice that him and CES are suspicious of each other. Should this lynch pop scum and one should be tempted to lay town cred on CES for it or vice versa... don't buy it.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:14 am
by Shadoweh
Mrr. OGML: People aren't going to stop asking you the question until they feel you've tried to answer it again. Since it is detrimental to what I want at this point I would appreciate if you would try to go into specifics again, even if it feels to you like you're repeating things you've already said.
Not that there's alot of Benmage to go into because he's been so contentful this game. Rocks only give so much blood.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:29 am
by Zachrulez
↑Shadoweh wrote:Mrr. OGML: People aren't going to stop asking you the question until they feel you've tried to answer it again. Since it is detrimental to what I want at this point I would appreciate if you would try to go into specifics again, even if it feels to you like you're repeating things you've already said.
Not that there's alot of Benmage to go into because he's been so contentful this game. Rocks only give so much blood.
Answer it again? I posted his entire iso as far as Benmage mentions go. He never answers why he thinks Benmage is scum ever.
While you're here, feel free to explain to me why
you
think we should be lynching Benmage.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:35 am
by Cogito Ergo Sum
I missed it too at first but there is a line in the middle bit of the post on me (#859) that does at least say something.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:46 am
by Llamarble
↑Zachrulez wrote:
Answer it again? I posted his entire iso as far as Benmage mentions go. He never answers why he thinks Benmage is scum ever.
I get why this behavior is annoying, but I don't get what it has to do with his alignment.
I will probably end up in favor of a CES lynch, but yesterday's scramble still needs to be reread.
Honestly, the main reasons I lean CES are BoP, PoE, and lack of town-ness.
I expect way more of him to an 'I doubt he would be this weak as town' point and most of the rest of the crew I have reservations about lynching.
He also makes the wagons make lots of sense as of my last checking. VOTE: CES
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:49 am
by Zachrulez
↑Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I missed it too at first but there is a line in the middle bit of the post on me (#859) that does at least say something.
So there is.
That's like giving you a single letter to a wheel of fortune puzzle and then saying, how can you not understand what the answer is? It's OBVIOUS.
↑Zachrulez wrote:
Answer it again? I posted his entire iso as far as Benmage mentions go. He never answers why he thinks Benmage is scum ever.
I get why this behavior is annoying, but I don't get what it has to do with his alignment.
I will probably end up in favor of a CES lynch, but yesterday's scramble still needs to be reread.
Honestly, the main reasons I lean CES are BoP, PoE, and lack of town-ness.
I expect way more of him to an 'I doubt he would be this weak as town' point and most of the rest of the crew I have reservations about lynching.
He also makes the wagons make lots of sense as of my last checking. VOTE: CES
OGML's posting is empty, and empty posting benefits scum play a lot more than it does town.
Tierce also touches on it here.
↑Tierce wrote:One of the issues with OGML is that his games are mostly pretty old. I'd say the most relevant ones are from Micro 53 to American Revolution as Town, and Playground Mafia as scum.
Everything older than this is meta that is 2+ years old. A quick skim of the games above really doesn't incline me to do anything but vote OGML. :/ He was somewhat better in Playground Mafia, but there was still that rapid, pointless tunneling with little to no explanation, which he gives without any trouble in Town games.
Empire, if you could go through those a bit today/tomorrow/whenever, that'd be great. I know you suspect OGML, but I was trying to ignore that read because of what I posted above (and wanted to swat you when you kept pushing him), but yeah, there's no way this is investigative PR play, especially since the moment a Goon flips we know Zach MUST be Town.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:24 am
by Cogito Ergo Sum
↑Llamarble wrote:Honestly, the main reasons I lean CES are BoP, PoE, and lack of town-ness.
I expect way more of him to an 'I doubt he would be this weak as town' point and most of the rest of the crew I have reservations about lynching.
You realize that the last time you applied a BoP argument to me I was trying to bus my scum buddy for pretty much the whole game, right?
OGML's one post of anything is the definition of keyword-based scumhunting. N's posts are littered with signs he can't produce and is trying to deny it (see the final "oh, I'd been waiting for this ongoing game end to make the most inane push on Empire imaginable" post for the clearest example). That slot has only done scummy things; that there is not more on them is purely a function of their play.
↑Llamarble wrote:Honestly, the main reasons I lean CES are BoP, PoE, and lack of town-ness.
I expect way more of him to an 'I doubt he would be this weak as town' point and most of the rest of the crew I have reservations about lynching.
You realize that the last time you applied a BoP argument to me I was
trying to bus my scum buddy for pretty much the whole game, right?
scum.
BoP is about more than voting the bad peoples.
As for the OGML / N slot, their scumhunting has been weak and they have been annoying, but N's manner of getting mad and the looseness of style they both had make me think they won't flip scum.
Pretty similar to Benmage's laziness, really.
Seems like Nacho would need to be scum if N is, given D1. Which was also when N was absent from the Penguin wagon.
Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:07 pm
by Cogito Ergo Sum
That's actually pretty much exactly what BoP is. I also don't really see how you can go for that type of argument in the same game that you're voting me on PoE grounds on D3 (especially if N/benmage turn out to be scum).
↑Llamarble wrote:As for the OGML / N slot, their scumhunting has been weak and they have been annoying, but N's manner of getting mad and the looseness of style they both had make me think they won't flip scum.
Pretty similar to Benmage's laziness, really.
That just seems like lazy pattern matching. N's anger was wholly misplaced and N is, fundamentally, not a bad scum player - think of it as a competent scum response to lack of content. Benmage's town tell is another man's scum tell so I'm not really sure why you would mention him.
'marble wrote:Seems like Nacho would need to be scum if N is, given D1. Which was also when N was absent from the Penguin wagon.