Mini Normal 2224 | Garfield Minus Garfield | Game Over

[Gypyx]

I still think scum need some sort of answer, maybe a 2s RB or a JOAT 1s rb/1s rc

Just something that allows them to hard counter town power / to identify it faster

well, town basically ID'd themselves in two days so i doubt a rolecop would've been that useful lol

and RBer feels done and redone so idk, i'll keep that in mind for any future game tho

[Menalque]

Oh that’s totally fair, okay

I was just curious about that along with other things like (1) Aristeia’s D1 “mena scum” thing(???) and (2) datisi roleblocking me N1(????) and (3) ydrasse deciding to QUICKHAMMER T3

[Menalque]

@gygpx maybe like 1s ninja/1s rb(or alien if you think it’s overplayed? Or rolestopper to use on a member of the team or something)

As always tho, I think the problem is that even if *you* come up with a perfectly balanced setup then by the time it gets through NRG it will be too townsided

[Datisi]

also my take on the setup: i agree it was townsided, but i don't think it was *as* townsided as this run would suggest

because there were three highly specific things happening here that made this swing against scum immensely

(1) ico rolling red against me and then doing the exact same thing he did last time, and eating the yeet for it immediately
(2) skitter rolling red in a game where aristeia rolled town investigative
(3) two scum being dead by n3, with the two surviving town power roles both awfully going up in power once there's only one scum left

like, i 100% agree that scum had zero mech counterplay to power roles (except shooting them, and that didn't exactly work out) and that this game could use either less town power or more scum power, but also it's not as bad as this run would suggest

[Datisi]

(2) datisi roleblocking me N1(????)

let me grab some quotes from my notes and the dead thread

[Menalque]

DATISI WHY DID YOU ROLEBLOCK ME

[Menalque]

Oh uh

Thank you lol

Ninja’d

[Gypyx]

@gygpx maybe like 1s ninja/1s rb(or alien if you think it’s overplayed? Or rolestopper to use on a member of the team or something)

As always tho, I think the problem is that even if *you* come up with a perfectly balanced setup then by the time it gets through NRG it will be too townsided

oh yea ninja would've been a good idea

just wasn't sure how good complete setup knowledge was, so might've undershot it by a fair bit

[Gypyx]

dropping the PTs when i can sit down btw

[Datisi]

Spoiler: from my notes pt

i'm gonna big brain assume mena is scum bc the way he was talking to me was fucking awful and i will be truly fucking

FLOORED

if he has a green role pm here

titanic town
aristeria town
peta most likely town for his fight w mena (his ico vote is not clearing because as we all know peta is the king of bussing)
ta vera and dwlee town?

t3 and ydrasse are Maybe Town on the basis that that bus was really, *really* unnecessary

(also i was getting pr-y vibes on ydra and i think that hammer checks out)

if the above is all correct, the last scum is within {dotw, tweetie, skitter}

i think tweetie is the most likely scum here. she was posting elsewhere on site while the thread was burning, and i think mena having a stroke over "people not efforting when scum" is +scum for her. skitt is dead null, and dotw's posts at mena and ico seemed non-partnery *enough*

Subject: Mini Normal 2224 | Garfield Minus Garfield | Night 1

i think if we flip ico today and he greens then we sure as shit yeet the fuck out of you tomorrow

Subject: Mini Normal 2224 | Garfield Minus Garfield | Night 1

Actually I think I hate everything about your positioning around me so far and I’d yeet you over ico without reading any of his posts on the basis of that

i cannot describe the frontflip that my gut did when i saw these posts, and yeah, if menalque is town here, i will genuinely admit i know nothing about this game

ugh, i'm not sure if mena does the scumkill here knowing there's a roleblocker in town... but one of them could be (probably is) a power role so maybe this doesn't exactly matter and i should just block obvscum period

Spoiler: from the dead thread

haha, of course aristeia checked skitter.

i guess menalque and i are now in the "neither of us knows how to read the other" cycle of our meta. fun.

For fuck’s sake datisi

What the shit

You think

I

would ever make the kill here

well maybe you should've bothered to read my ico case before pronouncing me lockscum, huh? >_>

i will wordvomit a bit more on why i did the things i did so that hopefully people don't yell at me:

i was pretty certain menalque was scum because of the way he played around me and iconuem. the thing is, i know menalque has a very... hit-or-miss read-rate on me, but he has a damn near perfect read-rate on iconuem. so even though he was scumreading me, i fully believed that town!menalque would take the 5 fucking minutes it takes to read my case on ico, and see that hey, iconeum is fucking obvious scum, and he would know i would never, NEVER bus iconeum in that capacity from page *three*.

instead, he... was looking for any possible angle not only to defend ico and attack me, but to give excused to not even read the case that i presented. in my mind, it was because scum!mena read the case, realized that he simply *cannot* defend that dumpsterfire, and resigned to blind chainsawing and townreading iconeum through that avenue.

but i guess this is what happens when menalque doesn't see my townplay in almost a year, and i don't have to read menalque in almost a year.

Imagine a world where I don’t get roleblocked and get to check titanic N1

Imagine

(Yes I am still salty that datisi thought I ever play D1 like that as scum and that EVEN IF HE THOUGHT THAT THAT HE WOULD THINK I WOULD THEN DO THE KILL)

MAYBE

IF YOU HAD TAKEN FIVE FUCKING MINUTES TO READ MY ICO CASE

BEFORE PRONOUNCING ME LOCKSCUM

WE WOULDN'T BE IN THIS PREDICAMENT

(in fact we would have already won because peta was my next target had i had a *trace* of feeling that menalque was town because they reeked of t/s, sooooooooooo)

[Menalque]

Complete setup knowledge is good in terms of planning and needs *less* hard counter than if scum have to figure out the setup (limited shots instead of full roles) but I think still needs some to avoid them just, potentially getting rinsed in one night of good actions/to allow greater punishment of early TPR claims

[Datisi]

like, you're free to yell at me all you want, but the way you were refusing to engage with my ico case and started screaming that i'm scum made me pretty certain you're twisting heaven and earth into defending iconeum, and as i wasn't sure who your partner would be (due to the day being kinda, uhm, short), i valued blocking the Obvious Scum more than trying to 9000 IQ wifom figure out who the kill-carrier is, especially since i wanted to avoid blocking town because i know that carries the risk of blocking a power role

it just so happened that you were town and a power role >_>

[petapan]

the knowledge of the PRs let us plan the night actions better (i obviously carried n1), but that was it, didn't really account for the critical mass town reached

[skitter30]

This was A Game, i suppose

[Menalque]

So datisi, what we’re really saying is we can blame everything on aristeia for tilting me out of my mind before I got a chance to read your case? :3

[Menalque]

(I am sort of mostly joking but still would like to try to engage in a constructive way about that because I like, still am very confused by why aristeia thought that was a good idea or if it was a sincere read on me like... I just still don’t get it? And I would like it explained a bit more please?)

[Menalque]

This was A Game, i suppose

*hugs*

[Datisi]

nope, still on you for not going back and reading it before interacting with me when i explicitly said to read it before interacting with me :3

that said, idk. i also thought the way you entered in the thread was awkward as well, but i was willing to give you enough space to properly read the game so far, but once you refused to do that despite two people offering you a tl;dr... yeah no

[petapan]

ftr though dats, even if mena was scum, deepest scum member should always be carrying the kill

granted most people are dumb and don't play it that way but given setup knowledge no one carries the kill if they look terrible after d1

[Menalque]

It was also partly pure ego frustration of thinking ico sounded scummy in the first couple of pages but not getting to get any credit for that because of having been at work all day while he went up in flames

That’s pure ego and entirely on me, and something I am continuing to work on

[skitter30]

That said I think you could have maybe marginalised titanic/ta vera enough for it to not be a meaningful threat or at least to survive one day?

I do wanna see why skitt decided the best option was pushing me tho, I think she should have gone for a pocket tbh and steered me towards titanic/ydrasse

I was already guilted at that point and we knew that you were gonna be an annoying pr and i think you were somewhat viable that day
And i was p sure town-me would majorly scumread your day1 so it was hard for me to cone up for reasons to townread you
And knowing that i wasnt gonna be the last scum kinda made me feel like i could take some ~risks~ and try something that i wouldnt gave normally
I think if ydrasse hadnt hammeted it would have gone better

[skitter30]

This right after tarot was a lot, kinda makes me wonder id i can really keep up anymore
Got implicated for missing a <8hour day1 twice in a row now >.>

[Datisi]

ftr though dats, even if mena was scum, deepest scum member should always be carrying the kill

granted most people are dumb and don't play it that way but given setup knowledge no one carries the kill if they look terrible after d1

trust me, i'm fully aware of that, i mentioned at some point that scum!mena *probably* doesn't do the kill

however
(1) i valued blocking Any Scum >>>>> accidentally blocking town, especially after the last time i was town roleblocker and my shitty night actions lost town the game, so even blocking a goon with no actions is better than blocking a townie
(2) the fact that scum is aware of my existence means that they might try to Wifom The Nightkill, because surely the town roleblocker won't block the obviously awfully looking scum, which gave me enough peace of mind to try to play this straight
(3) if scum doesn't have multitasking, and mena's partner is an important scum power role, scum!mena might be forced to do the nightkill anyway

[Menalque]

Oh, really? I was thinking town!you was one of the only people here who I could count on to read me correctly in spite of D1 with another hero-read (like in that other... was it also a mini normal? idr)

But okay, I get the way you were approaching it overall more now given the knowledge of the guilty

I wouldn’t disagree that I was still maybe viable, and I guess if you figured you were guilty it hurt a lot less for me to think you’re scum than it might have done if you’d been planning on being in lylo

[Datisi]

like obviously none of this turned out to be correct and i did the one thing i was above all trying to avoid, i.e. blocking a town power role, but i feel like at least my thought process wasn't completely off >_>