Mini Normal 2224 | Garfield Minus Garfield | Game Over

[Menalque]

This right after tarot was a lot, kinda makes me wonder id i can really keep up anymore
Got implicated for missing a <8hour day1 twice in a row now >.>

I didn’t hammer precisely because I wanted to give you a chance to get here and weigh in regardless of alignment

[skitter30]

Oh, really? I was thinking town!you was one of the only people here who I could count on to read me correctly in spite of D1 with another hero-read (like in that other... was it also a mini normal? idr)

But okay, I get the way you were approaching it overall more now given the knowledge of the guilty

I wouldn’t disagree that I was still maybe viable, and I guess if you figured you were guilty it hurt a lot less for me to think you’re scum than it might have done if you’d been planning on being in lylo

Yeah basically. I wasnt endgaming here so i felt like i could try things i wouldnt have notnally

[skitter30]

Also gg town, you guys played really well

[petapan]

tbh mena i stopped wanting to push back on you because dealing with you getting mad was just unpleasant

i like playing games with you but i don't like you when you get that way

i'm no saint myself but...hopefully you can tone it down in the future

hope the vacation from games treats you well

[Menalque]

Yeah, uh, sorry about that to everyone

I also don’t really like playing with me when I’m like that. Something I’m getting better at but still working on, and I think it gets worse the longer I go without breaks, which is something I need to be more cognisant of

Hopefully after a long break I’ll get better at spotting when it’s at risk of emerging and manage to take a break from games before that line gets crossed

Sorry to anyone else it made the game worse for

[petapan]

it's cool, i also ate a ban for being verbally abusive to someone in PM over a game back in the day, still lose control sometimes, i know how it is

also probably taking a short break just because i'm burnt

[Gypyx]

dead PT : https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12899953
mod PT : https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12896169
Datisi notes PT : https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12896188

[Ydrasse]

ydra hard carry no long days no 100 pgs only mostly killing scum

awoo

[Ydrasse]

(i very much playing this game on 2 braincells so sorry for being a meme gg)

[Aristeia]

gg.

I had fun

Datisi you were very dashing for the brief amount of time you got to play <3

Thanks to Gypyx for modding! : )

[ta vera]

gg

[Morning Tweet]

Oh lol guess that kinda makes sense, nice read Mena

This was definitely a game that happened

[Dwlee99]

Thanks Gypyx!

[Morning Tweet]

I think it seems really townsided because we hit essentially two hard guilties but without Ico dead it wouldnt have functioned that way so I dunno

ty for modding gypyx!

[Datisi]

when scum pt

[Gypyx]

when ico comes back to our realm

[Titanic]

gg

Knew those vibes were oFF peta

[petapan]

gg

Knew those vibes were oFF peta

prob a valid tell in the past but i do actually want to tone it down b/c i felt like i played like crap in the gypyx large that also just ended by being too aggressive

just happened to be red this game

[mastina]

Hi I reviewed this game.

[Gypyx]

mffafffaia PT : https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12896177

[Menalque]

hi mastina, i do not think this game was well-balanced

[Aristeia]

I think there is a lot of swing in that the power roles are much stronger the less mafia there are alive and it tends to build up in a one sided game one way or the other.

[mastina]

hi mastina, i do not think this game was well-balanced

Hi Menalque, I disagree with that--you have a roleblocker who cannot get guilties when there's only one scum alive (the traditional time where roleblocker is at its strongest), meaning that a roleblocker is incredibly unlikely to block the scum kill, but can block the town investigatives, making it incredibly hard to use well and balance of probability, more likely to hurt the town than help them.

You have a Loud Neapolitan, which the scumteam have full knowledge about--this allows the scum to know exactly when someone has been inno'd or guiltied'd by the role, allowing the scum a great deal of counterplay, especially since the role cannot get hard-guilties since the scum can claim anything not-VT in response. Easy to do thanks to their full setup knowledge and the role being Loud.

You have a Loud Follower, which the scumteam have full knowledge about--a follower is akin to a tracker in power in being an incredibly situational power role. It gets stronger with less scum in the game, and is at its strongest when there's only one scum left alive, but it still, just like the roleblocker, requires targeting the scum making the nightkill, and is completely worthless otherwise. If the follower doesn't target the scum making the nightkill, the follower is worthless. And even if the follower DOES get a guilty, the scum can easily, if they are fast about it, initiate a 1v1 by knowing about the role before it has claimed and potentially pull a stunt such as stealing the claim from them, for instance. (Say the follower claims a guilty but does not explain what type. That would give scum a window to fullclaim and reverse it around by claiming a guilty of their own.)

And you have a Motion Detector, which is a role that gets bundleloads of worthless results. No Motion is not an inno result until there's only one scum alive, and Motion Detected is only a guilty when there is no possible explanation for the motion. No visit, no power role visit, no power role actioning, etc. Most results do nothing to help the town scumhunt.

The town roles have some decent synergy in being able to somewhat confirm the presence of other roles--but nothing to confirm those roles come from town inherently. All of the town's roles fit as potential scum roles.

Now admittedly, 3/4 of the town roles become much stronger with only one scum left alive and all of the town roles are stronger with two scum left alive. So if scum die early, the game becomes much much harder for the scum. But,
1: the lack of protective roles which the scum have full knowledge of means the scum have free reign to nightkill power roles the

moment

they identify who the PRs are, and,
2: If the town yeets scum out early and the game becomes much harder for the scum...job well done? Towns shouldn't be punished for yeeting scum early, towns should be rewarded for yeeting scum early, scum shouldn't be rewarded for letting scum die early, scum should be punished for letting scum die early, so if the town yeets scum early and the game becomes harder for the scum as a consequence...I don't see the issue with that? That's how the game should work. Good play rewarded with good results, ,bad play punished with bad results.

So if scum die early, yes, the town gains a huge edge, but like...that's
A: a statistical abnormality, and,
B: in my opinion, just good design?

If this game were played out 100 times I think the town stomping the way they did in this game happens 10 or less times out of that. This was one of the best possible outcomes for the town. When you have an outcome that is a statistically speaking abnormal outcome that's unlikely to happen, the game's obviously going to appear less balanced due to the game having already swung to one extreme.

But if you look at the roles and the outcomes based off of theory rather than off of the outcome of the game in question, the balance becomes much much more clear. After all, reviewers cannot know the playerlist of a game in advance. So we can't balance off of the outcome of the game; we can only balance off of the theory behind the game and by the theory of the game, I stand by this setup being balanced or damn near close to it; I'd put it at within the 55-45 margin. (And for reference, we allow things to go as far as 60-40 in either direction. So a game that's at less than 60-40, in this case 55-45 or closer, like could be 52.5-47.5, or even 50-50, is damn near close to balanced.)

[Gamma Emerald]

beautiful flavor once again
(I spectated this game a bit from the sidelines fyi)

[Gypyx]

beautiful flavor once again
(I spectated this game a bit from the sidelines fyi)

thx