In post 1267, VP Baltar wrote:@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"
It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.
In post 1267, VP Baltar wrote:@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"
It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.
I'm only talking about your list specifically. Seemed useless, so why even post it? That's what I didn't care for. Think it was a good call out by Nero at the time.
I'm only talking about your list specifically. Seemed useless, so why even post it? That's what I didn't care for. Think it was a good call out by Nero at the time.
seemed useless? how do you condense your thoughts in one post efficiently? did you even read it in context?
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:22 pm
by VP Baltar
Bruh. I read the fooking post. It wasn't Pride & Predjudice.
Why did you feel compelled to post a list that had so many people in a poe instead of just keeping it to yourself and saying something more when you had an actual viewpoint?
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:22 pm
by humaneatingmonkey
am i right to believe here that you dont like it just because it looks like a list
is that the surface level reads i should expect from you from now on
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:22 pm
by humaneatingmonkey
what about it isn't an actual viewpoint?
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:39 pm
by Irrelephant11
In post 1220, Datisi wrote:i had a fun theory of guilty and baltar being scum/scum, but i'm starting to think i was wrong on it and i'm sad now
actually no, guilty does theater w buddies early, nvm, tinfoil saved
King if you’re talking about your two scum partners
In post 1224, fireisredsir wrote:i feel like i had an actually kinda good point on eiralox and got zero engagement on it
idk if that's meaningful or not
maybe it means nobody else thinks it was a good point. or maybe it means nobody is more aware than normal about pushes on eiralox bc nobody here is partnered with them. idk
also this GL vs VP thing is super uninteresting to me, maybe datisi is right
Ausuka - likely town
scamper - poe
Juice - waiting for arrival
Datisi - poe
humaneatingmonkey - town ofc
Aristeia - poe
Firebringer - pending to mid-game
Gamma Emerald - pending read on me
Nero Cain - poe
Eiralox - poe
fireisredsir - probably town
GuiltyLion - poe
VP Baltar - poe
marcistar - probably town
xofelf - likely town
skitter30 - likely town
Irrelephant11 - likely town
ydrasse - pending read on early game
Dunnstral - waiting
DeasVail - pending question on datisi townread
I count 5 reads out of 19 players. Zero scum, or anything generally that doesn't have the flavor of lukewarm milk. It's a pointless list to make other than it looks like effort. I know you're better than that.
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:44 pm
by Irrelephant11
So anyway on Thursday evening I lost 4 days of work when my computer crashed. And then today I lost 6 hours of work when Microsoft PowerPoint crashed.
Trying my best to catch up on recent posting and my brain is becoming more and more like “no you can’t process these words you’re too bothered by work”
Am I dumb for thinking that Datisi expertly defusing my scumread on him is a reason to scumread him? Probably I’m dumb for thinking that. Not sure where I want my vote. Too emotionally tired about work. Okbye
In post 1093, VP Baltar wrote:Elephant is asking consistent questions and pushing datisi reasonably seriously, which is probably unlikely to come from scum early game.
I think when you're scum with datisi, it's easier to just say townbin early and not risk his wrath.
I also don't get agenda vibes from elephant, like at all.
Why is he scummy?
ok so, revisiting this:
- i dont think "asking consistent questions" or "pushing reasonably seriously" are inherently towntells for anyone who has a decent amount of experience. i think those are bog standard things to fake. i also think being reasonable etc is more likely to come from scum, and i wuld dispute the notion that his push is even very serious, its kind of weak.
- i dont think the assumption of how scum will play around such and such a player is a good one, and ive seen datisi come under pressure from scum early in games. additionally, if a wagon against town!tisi looks viable id expect scum to be willing to join in. probably not all scum or even most of them, but at least some.
- agenda vibes is really vague and nonspecific. it doesnt actually mean anything to me.
the thing in games like this is i more or less expect people to put on a reasonable air of "looking townie". when i have been trying to put the names of people in the game in a list, no one leaps out as flaming obvscum. now, its possible scum are in the group of people who are null/havent said much (and id categorize that as FB/eira/juice/dunn - fb has been active but intentionally low content). in fact id guess theres probably at least 1 in there on pure probability. but id bet against it being the entire team, and that to me means i need to raise the bar for whats considered townie, i can't just give someone a pass for *looking* the part of a townie, i have to examine what they are actually saying and doing and ask myself if it makes sense or if its just trying to give the appearance of being productive. and relly felt like someone who is trying to look solvy but is thin on real depth of thought and is playing in a deliberately inoffensive fashion.
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:56 pm
by Irrelephant11
VOTE: Eiralox
Scamper see above for why I won’t be posting much for a bit. More curious what others think of your case on me anyway
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:56 pm
by scamper
heres stuff i take issue with. quotes are mostly spoilered for readability.
skitter, ydrasse, vpb, scamper, fireisredsir, nero cain, HEM
Scummier than rand:
guiltylion, datisi, maybe deasvail
???:
gamma, deasvail, aristeia, marci, firebringer, xofelf, [people who haven't posted]
This is not a readslist anyone should sheep I'm mostly just organizing my jumbled thoughts before exiting the thread
In post 371, Irrelephant11 wrote:firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?
giving an early list like this to me just feels like its trying to give the appearance of being "sorty" by having opinions down in thread, it reads as manufactured to me because the conclusions feel a bit too quick for where the game is at. giving off appearances versus having actual thoughts. the second quote is a minor point that might only make sense to me and no one else but in multiple games i have seen scum giving "not s/s" reads in the ealy game. it gives the appearance of being "solvy" without saying much at all, because ruling out a pair of players doesnt actually narrow down potential scumteams much, and you dont have to actually case someone. it also feels like a very thin and trivial thing to make an observation on.
do you think it's likely i rand scum and then enter townreading you for no reason, after knowing you gave me a lot of shit for that when i was scum?
"How dare you scumread me for doing something that would be suboptimal for me as scum, I intentionally did that so you couldn't call me scum!" -Scumtisi
guiltylion town bc i was gonna murder him if he didn't call out my shitty entrance, but he DID so he is town for now
firebringer can be town (sorry :<) because his calling out vpbaltar feels Good because i am disliking him too currently
ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town
uhh i dislike baltar so far, idk if anyone has noticed
i had... like one post where i thought that nero was vibing with me. i don't remember which one. i can look for it later if needed.
nobody else made any kind of impression at the moment.
ok i'm sorta caught up ama
wow when I arrived at this post I mindmelded with 0% of it and agreed with like 4% of it (especially "nobody else has made any kind of impression at the moment" :barf:
In post 290, Ausuka wrote:Like acting like I'm making this push because I don't understand how mafia works or something just feels super not genuine from Datisi here. I don't think my concern with handing GL an easy townread in a situation where it defuses tension between him and Datisi is super unreasonable or difficult to understand.
Agreed that Datisi got super defensive when "good point, you can be town" would have been a townier response
In post 292, humaneatingmonkey wrote:not me but ari has barely pushed you seriously and you already pulled out a wifom defense where i expected more goofing to be present
- i had a gut townread on ari for noticing something is up with baltar
- that's good, but i don't know EXACTLY what she saw. if she saw what i did, then that's even better townpings.
- write out the first part of the post
- realize that (1) scum!ari could probably deduce what i was looking for, based on what i said and what she said in thread so far; (2) even if she couldn't, scum!ari could probably fake her reasoning on baltar ANYWAY because she has seen us in games together way too many times
- realize that there is no opportunity to actually get the stronger townread on aristeia
- decide that the weaker, gut townread is still worth mentioning as a starting point and as a way to get the game going forward
This is my first time having the thought "maybe Datisi is too stressed to be scum? Aren't most of the possible scumteams in this playerlist a Good Time(tm) and shouldn't scumtisi therefore be enjoying himself a bit more?
But that's like wifom-ing myself into townreading Datisi when the only AI thing I feel like I know how to use on Datisi is whether he's having a good time [yes=town] [no=scum]
In post 536, Irrelephant11 wrote:... I guess it's mostly true that he was just reiterating. My first read through I found his compulsion to repeatedly explain himself scummy, but maybe it was a necessity because of how much he was being interrogated on the same point. I still find it scummy how stressed he seemed (his protests that he was nought but "bored" notwithstanding)
In post 529, Datisi wrote:what, you mean my "reaction test" on ari? i feel like i have made myself quite clear what my thought process was there, what part is giving you trouble?
ok but is anyone else scumreading datisi for posts like? Too nice. I felt the same about our first few interactions in our coalition game (my thought was "huh, very nice and polite") and while at that time it felt NAI I kind of think it might be scummy for Datisi specifically? Trying to rein in his tone sort of thing
I am in the tunnel and I'm not coming out!!
fire I think you maybe said you think datisi is town? Why?
In post 1071, Irrelephant11 wrote:I think datisi is scummy because I don't see him solving, really. I see him being defensive and tonally weird (like kinda all over the place, and then asserting he's "bored" which doesn't match his tone or what I would expect towntisi to feel in his first!! town game!! in forever!! if town. Compare to fireisredsir who's having a blast with the playerlist regardless of alignment)
I think he's focusing on weird things and just kinda flitting around trying to find places to look solvy instead of getting his hands dirty on things that actually matter/could be refuted
in summary the points are:
- relly disagreed with a post he made in the early game
- datisi got defensive when being accused
- he seems like hes not having a good time/is stressed
- too nice
- not solvy (which, by that point, i dont think is true)
none of these are...good reasons to actually all anyone scum? they're all tone/vibes stuff that doesnt actually try to examine any of datisis actual reasoning or solving. even the first post relly said he disagreed with, he never expanded on WHY he disagreed with it or what about that disagreement made him scum rather than who had different opinions. he accuses datisi of not solving but doesnt comment on any of the actual reads datisi has given, which makes me qusetion if hes actually really looking at datisis posts and thinking critically about them, or just making a vague accusation in line with popular sentiment and hoping the line sticks.
--
irrelephant (temporarily) backs off from his datisi scumread here:
In post 566, fireisredsir wrote:it doesn't feel like he's trying to pump up his posts with extra emotion or extra thoughts
hm perceptive. I was really hoping to catch scumtisi D1 but maybe I'll just townlean him now and then vig him later out of paranoia
+townpoints to fire for the depth of this read on datisi
VOTE: aristeia
after just claiming he was tunneled in 563. but...this is a really weak reason to actually reverse a read? literally all fire says is datisis posts dont have extra emotion or thoughts, and somehow this is a "deep" read to relly? thats not analytical. its not even saying anything particularly meaningful. the swap here feels super fake and contrived.
You and HEM both said this. What is compelling a TR there?
- Looking up what DeasVail's alignment was the last time they played together
- Stating the obvious t/t read of Ausuka & Marci in a way that would be hard to rescind
- Complaining about being read as a fluffposter while admitting it's true
pedit: HEM is locktown for like 3 day phases at least tbh
I'm being bad and dumb for basing a townread off of the tone of this single post but like if you can imbue your scumposts with a feeling of "oops I found a townie and made him mad", I'd be impressed
hi! I think you're town because people scumread your entrance to the game in the same way I've seen people scumread you as town like 12 times
I don't have any strong scumreads except, like.... datisi? I sure hope the silent slots are scum
in the big picture i dont necessarily have an issue with him townreading these people. but the reasons for them all feel super contrived and fake. xofelf looking up a past game is not a towntell. giving a TvT read on a big fight in thread is not a towntell. the bit about admitting to being a fluffposter makwa literally no sense?? why is that towny? the townreads on ari and skitter are also incredibly bad and superficial and based on totally trivial things, which isnt really an approach that makes sense toward two players with decent scumranges. im not saying that ari/skitter should never be townread out of paranoia, but the reasoning for those reads is just bad to me.
Lion, Gamma, firebringer, marci??, Eiralox, Juice, Dunnstral oh okay there's more in this pile than I thought
and the way it adds up is that it feels like hes afraid to call anyone active scum, which to me comes across as a mindset of trying to play too carefully and not step on anyone's toes. which goes in line with scum that is trying to look town more than actually solve anyone
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:58 pm
by scamper
In post 1287, Irrelephant11 wrote:So anyway on Thursday evening I lost 4 days of work when my computer crashed. And then today I lost 6 hours of work when Microsoft PowerPoint crashed.
Trying my best to catch up on recent posting and my brain is becoming more and more like “no you can’t process these words you’re too bothered by work”
Am I dumb for thinking that Datisi expertly defusing my scumread on him is a reason to scumread him? Probably I’m dumb for thinking that. Not sure where I want my vote. Too emotionally tired about work. Okbye
that really sucks, imsorry
i feel, uh, awkward with my timing but dont feel obligated to respond right away. im not calling you lockscum but i have issues with stuff youve said so far. i dont have any scumreads i feel super confident on.
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:01 pm
by scamper
where im at rn:
Ausuka - town
scamper - radiant lodestar of towniness
Juice - null
Datisi - null
humaneatingmonkey - no clue
Aristeia - lean town
Firebringer - heart says lean town but my head cant justify him being higher than null
Gamma Emerald - town
Nero Cain - lean town
Eiralox - null
fireisredsir - lean scum
GuiltyLion - lean town
VP Baltar - no clue
marcistar - town
xofelf - lean town?
skitter30 - has been reasonable. which is not the same as towny. but i want to give her time.
Irrelephant11 - lean scum
ydrasse - town
Dunnstral - null
DeasVail - lean town
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:01 pm
by Irrelephant11
Okay trying to exit the thread is harder than I thought. I have a snappy comeback but is it worth posting?? I mean might as well huh
Snappy comeback: “I townread all the talkative people and scumread the quiet ones. And I’m having trouble nailing people down in both categories, Irrelephant, btw, is scum for townreading all the talkative people and scum reading the quiet ones, and having trouble nailing people down in both categories”
Pedit: don’t feel bad! Sucky work day but honestly enjoying you doing ~something new~ in the thread
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:02 pm
by Irrelephant11
In post 1294, Irrelephant11 wrote:Okay trying to exit the thread is harder than I thought. I have a snappy comeback but is it worth posting?? I mean might as well huh
Snappy comeback: “I townread all the talkative people and scumread the quiet ones. And I’m having trouble nailing people down in both categories.
Irrelephant, btw, is scum for townreading all the talkative people and scum reading the quiet ones, and having trouble nailing people down in both categories.”
Pedit: don’t feel bad! Sucky work day but honestly enjoying you doing ~something new~ in the thread
do you mind explaining this one? I'd been feeling pretty good about fireisred townread today and I wanna see if you can knock it down a few pegs like you just did with Relly
also are you looking for outside thoughts on your Irrelephant case or should we wait for him to give it a real response
In post 1294, Irrelephant11 wrote:I townread all the talkative people and scumread the quiet ones. And I’m having trouble nailing people down in both categories
the thing is, i think that is categorically not true for me. i am trying to actually critically examine the people who have posted content to be readable by
do you mind explaining this one? I'd been feeling pretty good about fireisred townread today and I wanna see if you can knock it down a few pegs like you just did with Relly
also are you looking for outside thoughts on your Irrelephant case or should we wait for him to give it a real response
i think his push on eiralox is icky, and thats true regardless of eiralox's alignment
sure, i welcome thoughts. tell me im being a conf-biased dummy if you must
Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2022 1:09 pm
by Aristeia
Nero I'm sorry if I made you feel bad or insulted. I am often careless in the way I speak about others and I will endeavor to be more kind to you and others in the future.
I appreciate that you take time out of your day to play this silly game with the rest of us.
