Mafiascum.net

↑ PJ. wrote:Being a dick to my teammates does not effect the outcome of the game.

I have no words.

↑ PJ. wrote:Being a dick to my teammates does not effect the outcome of the game. Supporting every game would simply mean i'm watching my team feed every role and not have a champ that can possibly carry out of it. Unless you feel that you can't play any role up to par in your elo, you shouldn't support(unless there are some serious extenuating circumstances)

it's the entire post actually. This tells you only one thing. Panzer apparently sucks at support and doesn't know what a team is.

↑ PJ. wrote:Being a dick to my teammates does not effect the outcome of the game/

First off, that's affect with an a.

Secondly...what? Have you ever interacted with human beings in real life? It . Like, for fucks sake, even if you're always better than everyone you queue with (and you're NOT, I guarantee you), even THEN I don't see how you'd think this. Imagine you're on a baseball team with a bunch of five year olds. When one of them misses the ball, do you think saying "WOW REAL TODDLER. HEY RETARD TODDLER THROWING MATCH GG" won't affect anything? Or do you think maybe they'll play worse because instead of focusing 100% on recovering from their mistake they now have to deal with being flamed at the same time?

I can't count the number of times I've done really poorly in lane (0-2, 0-3) and then turned around and carried the game. Y'know how I pulled it off? I was playing with friends, and they just didn't talk to me about how I was feeding so I could just focus myself on turning the game around. You want to CREATE that environment for your pubbies, as much as possible - a place where they're elated over good plays and don't get stressed over bad ones.

What usually happens is that you get a draw of good, average, and bad players for your elo, and then you flame and turn them into good players who don't really want to help you and average and bad players who do poorly because there's being flamed.

Here's a new rule: you can only say a disparaging remark in team chat once for every two wards you place. This rule will gain you Elo if you follow it.

PS: Required reading.

3 games in a row on EU ranked queue I've conveniently had my entire team's ping magically spike up to 800+ now and come back to an Ace.
3rd time it happened, the other team admitted that one of them had said he was going to LoLDrop and they just had to a-move at us when he said. Yay.

↑ mykonian wrote:

↑ PJ. wrote:Being a dick to my teammates does not effect the outcome of the game. Supporting every game would simply mean i'm watching my team feed every role and not have a champ that can possibly carry out of it. Unless you feel that you can't play any role up to par in your elo, you shouldn't support(unless there are some serious extenuating circumstances)

it's the entire post actually. This tells you only one thing. Panzer apparently sucks at support and doesn't know what a team is.

This theory falls apart when you realize i have over 60% win rate with blitz. Stopped playing him long ago when i realized that feeders will always outweigh the impact of a support. And now he's always banned.

hitogoroshi wrote:

↑ PJ. wrote:Being a dick to my teammates does not effect the outcome of the game/

First off, that's affect with an a.

Secondly...what? Have you ever interacted with human beings in real life? It

absolutely makes a difference

.

1. Like, for fucks sake, even if you're always better than everyone you queue with (and you're NOT, I guarantee you)

, even THEN I don't see how you'd think this. Imagine you're on a baseball team with a bunch of five year olds. When one of them misses the ball, do you think saying "WOW REAL TODDLER. HEY RETARD TODDLER THROWING MATCH GG" won't affect anything?

2. Or do you think maybe they'll play worse because instead of focusing 100% on recovering from their mistake they now have to deal with being flamed at the same time?

I can't count the number of times I've done really poorly in lane (0-2, 0-3) and then turned around and carried the game. Y'know how I pulled it off? I was playing with friends, and they just didn't talk to me about how I was feeding so I could just focus myself on turning the game around. You want to CREATE that environment for your pubbies, as much as possible - a place where they're elated over good plays and don't get stressed over bad ones.

3. What usually happens is that you get a draw of good, average, and bad players for your elo, and then you flame and turn them into good players who don't really want to help you and average and bad players who do poorly because there's being flamed.

Here's a new rule: you can only say a disparaging remark in team chat once for every two wards you place. This rule will gain you Elo if you follow it.

1. I certainly, without a doubt, am. I'll straight style on anyone under, at, or even 200 elo above me. I know this because I've done it.

2. That would make sense, except these people don't have a hope. I've been following your checklist and trying to do pretty much everything in the checklist you posted a while back, and coming pretty close, and I lost 120 elo. These people are going to feed relentlessly, whether you gank their lane, or tell them "nice try you'll get 'em next time, or whatever" or call them fucking feeders, or flat out ignore them. It seriously does not matter 75% of the time. The other day I played a game where this guy trolled champ select and broke the team's will t take the game seriously, and we still won. I played TF for the first time ever against an LB. We were gonna win that game regardless of we took it seriously or not simply because the other team outside of the 9 kill LB had absolutely no idea what they were doing. Either you get lucky and end up on a team that can swim or you get unlucky(which despite statistical evidence saying it shouldn't, it happens a surprising majority of the time). I can't tell you how many times if been 20 kills with less around 5-6 deaths and lost the game simply cause everyone on my team had well over 10 deaths., or how many times i have been involved in literally every kill/dragon/baron my team had, and still lost. There are just a large number of games at 1100-1300 that you just can not carry. Even pros admit this. My attitude towards my team does not effect it in the slightest. They are either gonna relentlessly feed or they aren't and you can carry it out.

3. This just is untrue. You get yourself and 9 bad players. You end up having to hope your four bad players don't feed so hard you can't carry, get mad and leave, get d/c'd accidentally during key moments, "trolling" and intentionally throwing the game because the game isn't going their way, and countless other things that are completely out of your control.


How 1100-1300 works when you have too many games to get out in just a handfull of games is this, You go on a winning streak and get a string of good games that you can carry and get almost up to 1300, then you get a string of bad games that bring you back down to 1100 without any of it really being in your control, and because you lose WAY more for a loss then a win..your decline takes way less games then your ascent.

DeathRowKitty wrote:So basically you're saying no one should support.

No, i'm saying that guy that has 2 wins and 15 losses with Ahri that still demands he plays Ahri even though he averages 2 kills and 8 deaths a game, should be the guy using soraka, placing wards, and staying in the bush doing everything he can to not feed, while someone who actually knows how to aim a skillshot goes mid. Trust me when I tell you that there's one of these in every solo queue team you'll be on at my elo.

you won 60% but realized feeders will always outweigh the effect of a support.

Somewhere you reasoning doesn't make sense to me.

↑ PJ. wrote:This theory falls apart when you realize i have over 60% win rate with blitz. Stopped playing him long ago when i realized that feeders will always outweigh the impact of a support. And now he's always banned.

And I have something like an 80% win rate with Teemo because I only pick him when the situation demands it. Your point is?

You're not god's gift to the lower elo bracket, you are there for a reason. Mechanical skill is not all that matters in a team game, and until you work that out, you will stay where you are.

↑ PJ. wrote:There are just a large number of games at 1100-1300 that you just can not carry. Even pros admit this.

There are also pros like SaintVicious who have carried themselves up from 1 elo. Your point is...?

I dick around at 1000-1300 elo on the NA server doing weird shit and trying out new builds. Speaking as a 1600 elo EU player who carried himself out of the 11-1300 bracket by co-ordinating with a bunch of people who are much less likely to even speak English, they aren't nearly as hopeless as you seem determined to paint them. If being a complete arse (as you seem to be from the games I've spectated of yours) doesn't work, maybe you should try the other approach for more than 3 games. What's the definition of madness, again...?

i wouldn't take solid teamwork advice from someone who thinks they're much, much better than they are, acts like a massive prick-and-a-half about it, and yet bails on his team 5 minutes before a match because they don't want to stop duo queueing

i have been quiet on this particular matter so far, but the idea that being a dick to people "doesn't matter" is where i draw the line and so i feel it important to note that panzer's credibility isn't exactly the best in terms of "what it takes to be a good team player"

↑ JDodge wrote:i wouldn't take solid teamwork advice from someone who thinks they're much, much better than they are, acts like a massive prick-and-a-half about it, and yet bails on his team 5 minutes before a match because they don't want to stop duo queueing

i have been quiet on this particular matter so far, but the idea that being a dick to people "doesn't matter" is where i draw the line and so i feel it important to note that panzer's credibility isn't exactly the best in terms of "what it takes to be a good team player"

If want to do this, we can. How about you tell the whole(true) story, as to what happened. About how you never gave me a time for our games? And expect me to just be there. And then said he we have a game coming up and then waited until i joined a queue that "coming" meant "5 minutes" and didn't have the balls to tell me yourself that it's what you meant? Eat a dick JD, and next time you want to cry about me bailing on you, tell them about your piss poor managerial skills. Me bailing on you was a culmination on having to deal with your piss poor planning for as long as I was dealing with ONM.

Knight of Cydonia wrote:

↑ PJ. wrote:This theory falls apart when you realize i have over 60% win rate with blitz. Stopped playing him long ago when i realized that feeders will always outweigh the impact of a support. And now he's always banned.

And I have something like an 80% win rate with Teemo because I only pick him when the situation demands it. Your point is?

You're not god's gift to the lower elo bracket, you are there for a reason. Mechanical skill is not all that matters in a team game, and until you work that out, you will stay where you are.

↑ PJ. wrote:There are just a large number of games at 1100-1300 that you just can not carry. Even pros admit this.

There are also pros like SaintVicious who have carried themselves up from 1 elo. Your point is...?

I dick around at 1000-1300 elo on the NA server doing weird shit and trying out new builds. Speaking as a 1600 elo EU player who

has

carried himself out of the 11-1300 bracket by co-ordinating with a bunch of people who are much less likely to even speak English, they aren't nearly as hopeless as you seem determined to paint them. If being a complete arse (as you seem to be from the games I've spectated of yours) doesn't work, maybe you should try the other approach for more than 3 games. What's the definition of madness, again...?

When i played Blitz, I played him every game.

Also, Saint Vicious is a much much much better player than I'll probably ever be. There are some people, truly elite people that can carry a game with 4 feeders on their team. I'm not one of them. And I have played much more than 3 games being nice. I have actually made a real effort to clean my act up on numerous occasions. Cleaning up my act has normally resulting in me losing ELO. Being nice truly has no affect on whether or not you win the game. Mechanical skill is the only thing you can control in the game, you can't make your team play better. You can't make your team not feed/lose their lane so fast that you it effects your laning phase. The simple fact is, your team will always be idiots.

↑ PJ. wrote:

↑ JDodge wrote:i wouldn't take solid teamwork advice from someone who thinks they're much, much better than they are, acts like a massive prick-and-a-half about it, and yet bails on his team 5 minutes before a match because they don't want to stop duo queueing

i have been quiet on this particular matter so far, but the idea that being a dick to people "doesn't matter" is where i draw the line and so i feel it important to note that panzer's credibility isn't exactly the best in terms of "what it takes to be a good team player"

If want to do this, we can. How about you tell the whole(true) story, as to what happened. About how you never gave me a time for our games? And expect me to just be there. And then said he we have a game coming up and then waited until i joined a queue that "coming" meant "5 minutes" and didn't have the balls to tell me yourself that it's what you meant? Eat a dick JD, and next time you want to cry about me bailing on you, tell them about your piss poor managerial skills. Me bailing on you was a culmination on having to deal with your piss poor planning for as long as I was dealing with ONM.

It's pretty funny, actually; the reason why I didn't specify a time was more because I wanted to see if you were too far into the queue process for us to wait since the other team wanted a warmup match first. You failed to respond, so I had Zito send something over, and as far as I know your words were "I'm not dodging, fuck off". That entire series we were going to be playing then folded in upon itself due to its own poor planning - the lack of ability to schedule times between matches (the other team kept giving me a non-committal answer) did it in.

Beyond that, if you want to claim "piss-poor planning", allow me to note that the one time when I realized shit was bad the way it was and called a meeting, everyone went stone-dead quiet and had no real concerns to air out - the only thing we agreed upon was a practice schedule was needed. This happened to come at a time when my work schedule was changing, thus meaning I needed a week or two to commit to an actual schedule. If there was a problem with communication, you - rather ironically - did not communicate that to me.

Even more beyond that, it is quite hard to communicate with someone who doesn't respond to messages I send them in the game client, who randomly disappears after games before we have a chance to discuss anything that went on, etc. If you then want to claim hostile environment (and I will be the first to state that the team as a whole does have some growing pains on that front right now), then that kind of defeats your point of "it doesn't matter if I'm a dick to my teammates".

Get the fuck over yourself and own up to the fact that you abandoned your team, then a week or two later came back asking if you could stay on as a sub. If my managerial skills were so piss-poor, you'd have had no reason to come back and ask for a sub slot, so don't even go there.

Albert Einstein wrote:The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

That is literally all I have to say on the subject. The fact that several people, all of whom have successfully climbed out of this rut you find yourself in, are telling you you are doing it wrong and you continue to ignore them... well, it says everything about your playstyle. Ladder from 0-1600 is a morale game 90% of the time. Mechanical skill may well be keeping you at 1100-1300 while everyone around you gets tired of your shit, but as long as you continue to be a dick, that is all it will do.

Also, JD, stop making me agree with you, I'm meant to be accusing you of vast Zionist conspiracies here.

tl;dr people take this game entirely too seriously and the second I stopped caring so much was the second I started enjoying it more.

↑ Knight of Cydonia wrote:Also, JD, stop making me agree with you, I'm meant to be accusing you of vast Zionist conspiracies here.

u mad?

(must keep up appearances)

Popcorn.gif

↑ JDodge wrote:

↑ PJ. wrote:

↑ JDodge wrote:i wouldn't take solid teamwork advice from someone who thinks they're much, much better than they are, acts like a massive prick-and-a-half about it, and yet bails on his team 5 minutes before a match because they don't want to stop duo queueing

i have been quiet on this particular matter so far, but the idea that being a dick to people "doesn't matter" is where i draw the line and so i feel it important to note that panzer's credibility isn't exactly the best in terms of "what it takes to be a good team player"

If want to do this, we can. How about you tell the whole(true) story, as to what happened. About how you never gave me a time for our games? And expect me to just be there. And then said he we have a game coming up and then waited until i joined a queue that "coming" meant "5 minutes" and didn't have the balls to tell me yourself that it's what you meant? Eat a dick JD, and next time you want to cry about me bailing on you, tell them about your piss poor managerial skills. Me bailing on you was a culmination on having to deal with your piss poor planning for as long as I was dealing with ONM.

It's pretty funny, actually; the reason why I didn't specify a time was more because I wanted to see if you were too far into the queue process for us to wait since the other team wanted a warmup match first. You failed to respond, so I had Zito send something over, and as far as I know your words were "I'm not dodging, fuck off". That entire series we were going to be playing then folded in upon itself due to its own poor planning - the lack of ability to schedule times between matches (the other team kept giving me a non-committal answer) did it in.

Beyond that, if you want to claim "piss-poor planning", allow me to note that the one time when I realized shit was bad the way it was and called a meeting, everyone went stone-dead quiet and had no real concerns to air out - the only thing we agreed upon was a practice schedule was needed. This happened to come at a time when my work schedule was changing, thus meaning I needed a week or two to commit to an actual schedule. If there was a problem with communication, you - rather ironically - did not communicate that to me.

Even more beyond that, it is quite hard to communicate with someone who doesn't respond to messages I send them in the game client, who randomly disappears after games before we have a chance to discuss anything that went on, etc. If you then want to claim hostile environment (and I will be the first to state that the team as a whole does have some growing pains on that front right now), then that kind of defeats your point of "it doesn't matter if I'm a dick to my teammates".

Get the fuck over yourself and own up to the fact that you abandoned your team, then a week or two later came back asking if you could stay on as a sub. If my managerial skills were so piss-poor, you'd have had no reason to come back and ask for a sub slot, so don't even go there.

To add to this: I sent out a PM to everyone on the team shortly after said meeting asking everyone what times worked for practice to get a schedule worked out. I got a reply from everyone but one person...

Mechanical skill is the only thing you can control in the game, you can't make your team play better. You can't make your team not feed/lose their lane so fast that you it effects your laning phase. The simple fact is, your team will always be idiots.

• Retreat ping and call MIAs for lanes besides your own
  
• Give your team build advice ("Everyone grab a bit of MR as soon as you can. Shen, if you could fit an Aegis into your build, it'd be very helpful...")
  
• Tell your team in chat all you know about the enemy jungler's standard routes ("Lee will probably L2 gank top or mid with red")
  
• Shove your lane so you can go elsewhere and directly influence
  
• Ward for other lanes
  
• Time objectives, give warnings to assemble starting around 90s from them coming up
  
• When enemies take objectives in fog of war, take approximate timers ("9.23 ish e.blue")
  
• Praise successes, it helps people go on the good kind of tilt
  
• Offer direct feedback for mistakes, always with a smiley after ("Warwick, that Vayne is saving her QSS for you - just ult the Vlad, it's better than nothing ")
  
• In bot lane only, communicate constantly with your lanemate - do you want to go aggro or passively farm? Are we looking to push and get on the map or hold this lane as long as possible? etc.

All of these are things to do that don't involve mechanical skill (aside from shoving and just directly helping another lane with your presumably fed body.)

Buy them wards, watch the wards for them.

The one simple trick that raised me over 200 ELO.

↑ JDodge wrote:Beyond that, if you want to claim "piss-poor planning", allow me to note that the one time when I realized shit was bad the way it was and called a meeting, everyone went stone-dead quiet and had no real concerns to air out - the only thing we agreed upon was a practice schedule was needed. This happened to come at a time when my work schedule was changing, thus meaning I needed a week or two to commit to an actual schedule. If there was a problem with communication, you - rather ironically - did not communicate that to me.

Even more beyond that, it is quite hard to communicate with someone who doesn't respond to messages I send them in the game client, who randomly disappears after games before we have a chance to discuss anything that went on, etc. If you then want to claim hostile environment (and I will be the first to state that the team as a whole does have some growing pains on that front right now), then that kind of defeats your point of "it doesn't matter if I'm a dick to my teammates".

Get the fuck over yourself and own up to the fact that you abandoned your team, then a week or two later came back asking if you could stay on as a sub. If my managerial skills were so piss-poor, you'd have had no reason to come back and ask for a sub slot, so don't even go there.

The 1st point is wrong because I did say something. You're leaving out the truth, again. I said, and I'm sure this is an almost exact quote "We need a schedule, because i'm tired of having to wait around and be surprised by you guys, I want a set time and game schedule" and everyone agreed. In response to BBM, I said in this same meeting(that took three days to actually happen cause no one gave a set time), "As long as you give me a time well before hand, I be able to make it" 5 minutes by no stretch of the imagination is well before hand. I didn't respond to BBM's message because I already told you guys what I could do and what i wanted in return.

2nd point, I'm not even claiming a hostile environment. And there's not really much I want to discuss after crushing losses, I rather just go do something else.

3rd, I did that because i felt bad I abandoned PEG, BBM and Zito. People who had no part in what happened and offered to be a sub simply to make amends to them. You on the other hand, can go fuck yourself. You handle people like shit and you play like shit.

↑ hitogoroshi wrote:

Mechanical skill is the only thing you can control in the game, you can't make your team play better. You can't make your team not feed/lose their lane so fast that you it effects your laning phase. The simple fact is, your team will always be idiots.

• Retreat ping and call MIAs for lanes besides your own
  
• Give your team build advice ("Everyone grab a bit of MR as soon as you can. Shen, if you could fit an Aegis into your build, it'd be very helpful...")
  
• Tell your team in chat all you know about the enemy jungler's standard routes ("Lee will probably L2 gank top or mid with red")
  
• Shove your lane so you can go elsewhere and directly influence
  
• Ward for other lanes
  
• Time objectives, give warnings to assemble starting around 90s from them coming up
  
• When enemies take objectives in fog of war, take approximate timers ("9.23 ish e.blue")
  
• Praise successes, it helps people go on the good kind of tilt
  
• Offer direct feedback for mistakes, always with a smiley after ("Warwick, that Vayne is saving her QSS for you - just ult the Vlad, it's better than nothing ")
  
• In bot lane only, communicate constantly with your lanemate - do you want to go aggro or passively farm? Are we looking to push and get on the map or hold this lane as long as possible? etc.

All of these are things to do that don't involve mechanical skill (aside from shoving and just directly helping another lane with your presumably fed body.)

This is good and all, but your team as to choose to listen to you. More often than not..They won't. Again, mechanical skill is the only thing that you can actually control. You can do those things and hope your team follows suit, but they will most likely result in your team ignoring you and fucking it up.

Being a dick to my teammates does not effect the outcome of the game.

#1 way I lose games in solo queue. Seriously.

3rd, I did that because i felt bad I abandoned PEG, BBM and Zito. People who had no part in what happened and offered to be a sub simply to make amends to them. You on the other hand, can go fuck yourself. You handle people like shit and you play like shit.

Considering how it went down: Kindly go fuck yourself. You expect any of us to actually eat this garbage? Please.

↑ PJ. wrote:

↑ JDodge wrote:Beyond that, if you want to claim "piss-poor planning", allow me to note that the one time when I realized shit was bad the way it was and called a meeting, everyone went stone-dead quiet and had no real concerns to air out - the only thing we agreed upon was a practice schedule was needed. This happened to come at a time when my work schedule was changing, thus meaning I needed a week or two to commit to an actual schedule. If there was a problem with communication, you - rather ironically - did not communicate that to me.

Even more beyond that, it is quite hard to communicate with someone who doesn't respond to messages I send them in the game client, who randomly disappears after games before we have a chance to discuss anything that went on, etc. If you then want to claim hostile environment (and I will be the first to state that the team as a whole does have some growing pains on that front right now), then that kind of defeats your point of "it doesn't matter if I'm a dick to my teammates".

Get the fuck over yourself and own up to the fact that you abandoned your team, then a week or two later came back asking if you could stay on as a sub. If my managerial skills were so piss-poor, you'd have had no reason to come back and ask for a sub slot, so don't even go there.

The 1st point is wrong because I did say something. You're leaving out the truth, again. I said, and I'm sure this is an almost exact quote "We need a schedule, because i'm tired of having to wait around and be surprised by you guys, I want a set time and game schedule" and everyone agreed. In response to BBM, I said in this same meeting(that took three days to actually happen cause no one gave a set time), "As long as you give me a time well before hand, I be able to make it" 5 minutes by no stretch of the imagination is well before hand. I didn't respond to BBM's message because I already told you guys what I could do and what i wanted in return.

Was working on it. Couldn't commit to a time (at that point). Now I can, proven by the fact that we do indeed have a schedule now.

Panzer wrote:2nd point, I'm not even claiming a hostile environment. And there's not really much I want to discuss after crushing losses, I rather just go do something else.

Don't play games if you can't handle losing them, and don't skip out afterwards because you don't want to discuss shit. We all have to do things we don't want to do in order to make teams work.

Panzer wrote:3rd, I did that because i felt bad I abandoned PEG, BBM and Zito. People who had no part in what happened and offered to be a sub simply to make amends to them. You on the other hand, can go fuck yourself. You handle people like shit and you play like shit.

If you wanted me to boss everyone around and hold everyone's hand on everything, that's not how this team has worked. From the beginning I've treated every member of this team as if they had equal stake in running it, owning it, and playing in it - I'm not the team manager, I'm not the team captain, I'm not team anything - I'm just the person who brought everyone together in the first place and I'm just one of the players on the team.

You said it yourself, you abandoned the team.

Just carried a 4v5 as Malzahar.
Guess how I did it?
It sure as shit wasn't by yelling at our Ashe when she went 0/3 in lane because they were against a virtual trilane half the time.

Checkmate.

↑ PJ. wrote:
This is good and all, but your team as to choose to listen to you. More often than not..They won't. Again, mechanical skill is the only thing that you can actually control. You can do those things and hope your team follows suit, but they will most likely result in your team ignoring you and fucking it up.

Let put it this way. The thing that true is that there's some sort of mystical barrier around 1100-1300, and that if someone carried your account to 1400, you would miraculously never go below that.

If you're sure your mechanical skills are up to snuff, then something else is what's holding you back. I have never played with you, but poisonous attitude and lack of helpful communication are two things that commonly drag teams down, and you seem unrepentant about not doing either, so they're very likely causes.

who is 1400+ elo was 1200 elo first. Think on that for a moment, dude. You're not in some probability vortex where wah-wah all of their pubbies are great and mine are awful. After as many games as you've played, IF you could prove your pubs were on average worse than the enemies, it would be direct proof that YOU SPECIFICALLY are making them worse than the average, which is exactly what we're all telling you your shitty attitude does. And if your pubs AREN'T worse than average and you lose, that means you're actually not playing up to their average. Those are the only two options. There's no third "an evil wizard cast a probability spell on me that makes my pubs worse than average but it's not my fault at all" possibility.