Mafiascum.net

In post 1301, Killthestory wrote:pressure

In post 1302, Naomi-Tan wrote:

In post 1301, Killthestory wrote:pressure

Pressure? how is acting like you have information good pressure? so you was VT acting like you had a role -_- Okay then; why did you want to pressure them?

Killthestory wrote:just read her attack on me.

she doesn't even bother to ask me questions, just assume I'm scum.

In post 1285, BlackStar wrote:What's the case against Naomi? I know you said that you think they're fake, but could you elaborate?

In post 1306, Vedith wrote:

In post 1285, BlackStar wrote:What's the case against Naomi? I know you said that you think they're fake, but could you elaborate?

Everything I read of them just looks too over thought.
Looks to be trying too hard to give a good impression rather than solve the game and just looks fake.

In post 48, Naomi-Tan wrote:I have a problem with my mindset in general. As both scum and town I fear getting lynched and sometimes that drives me to inaction.

In post 48, Naomi-Tan wrote:. Because of this I also tend to do lots of LAMIST moves beacuse Im always worried people will want me gone as I'm not very good. Scum tend to use this to there advantage sometimes.

The reason I'm opening with this is my mind set follows a more scum meta when, for me, its really NAI as I just havn't managed to get past the idea that by lynched and I don't want to die.. and thats a problem but.. as I can't really do anything about it

In post 1310, Vedith wrote:And you only decided to point this out in this one game? Have you actually posted this else where? I mean, it's a standard trait for you to look scummy so you should be saying this all the time, right?

No, I am saying you are trying hard to look town instead of trying hard to solve the game and fake post. And you answer it with that you do stuff that look scummy
How on earth is your augment that you look scummy in par to what I am saying?

In post 1311, Vedith wrote:And your KTS vote is stupid, just to add.
Talk to me about Trans. You've not mentioned him too much as of late... Once I did notice was your response to 1265
Now tell me, if you look scummy and do scummy things, why did you expect to be the night kill?

In post 69, Killthestory wrote:

In post 49, Jordarrian wrote:Holy shit I found another me

no lol Naomi is a G and p decent.

In post 90, Killthestory wrote:

In post 87, Jordarrian wrote:

In post 84, Killthestory wrote:The fuck are you going on about?

Don't you love to quickhammer in ms?

In post 86, Transcend wrote:Kinda wanna lynch Naomi they're annoying

ಠ_ಠ

you don't know how i play

@transcend, Dude, Naomi is a g wtf

In post 109, Killthestory wrote:Nah Naomi is p town.

In post 110, Transcend wrote:they're prob town i agree, but their posting style annoys me. wouldn't mind a vig on them lol.

In post 111, Killthestory wrote:nah Naomi is cool

In post 119, Transcend wrote:BS'd list of reads so far

{KTS}
{Naomi}
{Jord, BlackStar}
{massive, pistachi0n, Skelda}
{Io}
{Vedith, light, Creature}
{xyzzy}

In post 130, Transcend wrote:uh

naomi is my second best tr rn lol

In post 140, light_ganski wrote:Yh you guys all look town from this

There are scum in jordarrian vedith + creature. Maybe blackstar too

In post 181, Creature wrote:1. xyzzy

2. Transcend

3. light_ganski
4. massive

5. Jordarrian
6. Killthestory
7. BlackStar
8. Creature

9. Skelda
10. Vedith
11. pistachi0n
12. Io

13. Naomi-Tan

In post 294, light_ganski wrote:Did this thread breed while I was asleep or something

ATM readslist:

Town - KTS, Naomi, Transcend, Xyzzy,

maybe

Io, Pistachi0n
Scum - Creature, vedith
Dunno - jordarrian, blackstar

In post 322, Killthestory wrote:i think naomi and psiysthacoion are the only obvtowners rn . . . //

@creature, lol thats actually terrible.

In post 330, Creature wrote:

In post 326, BlackStar wrote:

In post 321, Creature wrote:light_ganski
massive
Vedith
pistachi0n

Would easily wagon any of these

I can understand why you said light and Vedith, but not the other two. Can you explain your reads?

massive is null.

I didn't decide on pistachi0n yet.

Everybody else has done something that I find town.

In post 381, xyzzy wrote:here's some notes from the first 4 pages. not sure whether I'll get through all of these tonight, or if I'll have to wait until tomorrow for some of them, but here's the first chunk anyway.

5 (Creature): an RVS OMGUS. probably irrelevant but I'm noting it just in case it feels relevant later.
6 (Killthestory): I get a slight town read from this post; I feel like these sorts of things involving making really broad, unlikely statements like this immediately come from town.
19 (Killthestory): I don't think this post would come from scum.
20 (BlackStar): these kinds of things where someone doesn't notice some aspect of the setup mentioned in the rules that is only directly relevant to scum generally feels town.
24 (Transcend): I'm generally not a huge fan of it when someone RVS votes when there's already discussion going, but I think overall it's a null tell on its own. if it's combined with very little other content later on, though, that's bad.
28 (Jordarrian): this is a good response to Creature's post 27.
29 (Killthestory): I'm okay with this post.
32-34: once any of Transcend, BlackStar, Creature or Jordarrian are dead, these 3 posts will be worth thinking about in more detail.
36 (Killthestory): I didn't read Jordarrian's response as defensive, and it's weird that you did.
48 (Naomi-Tan): Naomi-Tan, you imply that you make posts like this in a lot of games; would you mind linking to some examples from other games that you've played (both as town and scum)?
50 (Naomi-Tan): this post feels like it comes from town.
55 (Naomi-Tan): I definitely feel the same way as you describe in the first paragraph here a lot; I usually have much stronger town reads than scum reads.
56 (light_ganski): again, same. basically I tend to start questioning myself really hard starting around day 2
57 (Creature): I don't really like this post very much; Naomi-Tan's post wasn't as bad as Creature seems to imply no matter what you thought of it imo
60 (Vedith): remember what I said earlier about RVS votes when discussion has already started? same thing.
61 (light_ganski): I feel like trying to derail the conversation by making something mundane like acknowledging the fact that scum have daytalk is something scum could plausibly do.
62 (Vedith): nope.
65 (Vedith): not a fan of this.
67 (Vedith): another post I dislike from Vedith!
76 (Killthestory): I have a bad habit of interpreting these sorts of posts as scummy even though they're usually not.
81 (Io): in general I feel like trying to figure out the structure of the game at this point in time is really fruitless beyond just broad statements like "town's probably strong", so trying to figure out what's common doesn't seem like a good plan. also, the P-edit at the bottom is good.
86 (Transcend): I feel like all of Transcend's posts that I've commented on were things where I was like "that's a bit scummy" but I'd not really paid attention to the fact that all of them come from the same person. this is bad.
88 (Transcend): also in what sense does Naomi-Tan seem like a gimmick account? what gimmick does she have?
96 (BlackStar): this is an okay post.

overall I'm most likely to switch my vote over to Transcend at this point, but I'll re-read and comment in detail on the remaining 12 pages before I do anything.

In post 415, massive wrote:Page 13 with the xyzzy "caught for the wrong reasons" post.

VOTE: xyzzy

Creature wagon looks suspect as heck since I see it right above me. It's like the list of players half-paying-attention. And Naomi. Come on Naomi.

In post 459, Transcend wrote:Anyways bs'd reads #2

{Naomi, KTS}
{BlackStar}
{Massive, Io, Creature, Skelda}
{Jord, Pista}
{Light}
{Vedith, xyzzy}

Some changes:

1. Naomi is now in the top tier, no way she flips wolf.
2. Creature and Io out of the scumpool and into the town pool. I've been pleased with their posts as of lately.
3. BlackStar moves up a tier because I think his case on me albeit wrong was genuine and town processed.
4. Jorda moves to the null tier because I decided that his reaction to the BW could easily be faked when I initially dismissed it as town.
5. Pretty sure xyzzy was the only person I've had in the bottom tier, but I've now moved Vedith there. His vote compared to his reads looks inconsistent and he's never justified himself.
6. Massive's analysis of xyzzy was really good and something I agreed with. He didn't go too far in depth but he moves into the more townier than not tier.
7. Skelda's vote on KTS doesn't look like a wolf vote so I also put him in the same tier as massive.
8. I have 3 people in the scum tiers now as opposed to 5. Obviously I expect to be wrong on at least one, but I'd like to think I have at least one wolf in the bottom 3 tiers to focus on. Leaning heavily towards Vedith or xyzzy rope.

In post 555, Creature wrote:510 is beyond scum capacity.

In post 567, Transcend wrote:

In post 564, Creature wrote:What do you think about KTS?

In my next reads list I'm probably gonna bump him down a tier. In the first 10 or so pages he was obv town but has since been less active. I still think he's town but Naomi is probably going to be the only one in the top tier at this point.

In post 570, Transcend wrote:icic

510 among the rest of Naomi's posts are beyond scum capacity for me lol.

In post 572, BlackStar wrote:

In post 570, Transcend wrote:icic

510 among the rest of Naomi's posts are beyond scum capacity for me lol.

I agree

In post 586, xyzzy wrote:my apologies for going a couple days without saying anything; I've been busier than usual the last couple days with real life things (yesterday my girlfriend and I spent what felt like 2 hours deliberating over whether to buy a plush Pokeball or a plush Shadow the Hedgehog at a Toys'R'Us, so needless to say, the things I've been busy with have been Very Important Business)

I have a very long response to Naomi-Tan's post 510 below, and I have it in its own section, with lots of hyphens.

the whole Vedith/BlackStar thing is absurd and is making both of them look scummy. that said, it's making Vedith look more scummy. I could see it being a bussing situation, though.

-------------------------

here's some responses to Naomi-Tan's post 510 (which contain responses to my post 381 and post 402):

19: even though it's a fairly obvious point, I doubt scum would directly acknowledge an idea like this that can only benefit the town. if any member of the town hadn't already come to this conclusion and Killthestory is scum, then this post is Killthestory saying "hey, by the way, here's a thing I might do that you should pay attention to," and that seems unlikely.
27/28: Creature's post 27 seems like it's trying to set Jordarrian up to make a mistake if he's scum; Jordarrian completely avoids taking the bait, which isn't an extremely strong town tell, but it's definitely not a scum tell.
32-34: because the Jordarrian wagon came out of nowhere, once any of those 4 people are dead, it'll be a little bit more feasible to infer information about possible connections between them. I feel like most likely at most 1 person on that wagon is scum, so if Jordarrian dies, looking at how those 3 people all interacted with him will be a decent source of information.
50: post 50 is definitely not a strong tell, but in general, I feel like pointing out information that is theoretically obvious but that could still be used to mislead the town is a slight town tell.
67: it just doesn't feel legitimate to me. I don't have a strong reason for believing this, but it doesn't feel like a pro-town action.
76: I tend to not be a huge fan of meaningless tautological statements, but despite my misgivings toward them, I've found that they're not really a scum tell.

122: I don't think trying to work out that info is unusual, but I think the manner in which Transcend responds to that question could provide info.
135: correcting other players' typos feels like an attempt to subtly make someone look like less of an important contributor to the game without actually meaningfully saying anything about their arguments.
142: the "can you guess why" part is the part I like.
152: that's fair. while sharing gut reads is an acceptable thing to do imo, not sharing them is just fine too, and I think your reasons for doing so are valid.
161: just so it's clear, my longer posts generally involve a lot of ISO-checking.
184: "they're annoying" isn't a valid reason to lynch someone (it's entirely possible for a town player to be annoying or for a scum player to be the most charming person in the game), and agreeing with that statement without adding anything to it at all doesn't feel good to me.

5: as I said, it's probably completely irrelevant, but it has the potential to feel noteworthy later on.
6: even though this is a non-serious post, I feel like in general town is a little more likely to make that kind of post, even if it's 100% a joke.
20: I don't feel like finding post 19 and post 20 both slightly town-leaning contradictory, but I see where you're coming from.
24: I think it's reasonable to expect people to say something about whatever's going on in the game if possible. as I said, I think on its own it's a null tell, but if someone has a lot of posts where they're just saying things without really contributing to any ongoing conversation, that's not great.
29: I'm not sure I fully understand what you're getting at here.
61: I screwed up my own grammar here--basically, what I meant was that someone could (incorrectly) decide that light_ganski's post 25 was scummy, and the fact that you pointed out that it isn't is fine. I had no issues with post 25.
86: this is something that I noted around that point during this re-read, although I guess pointing it out at post 86 wasn't super clear.

123/124: I don't feel like quoting three posts and simply saying "these don't sound genuine" without any additional commentary is a substantial reason to focus on someone as scummy; I still don't have a strong sense of

why

Transcend finds those posts non-genuine, just that he does.
277: this was in response to BlackStar's comment in 276 about Transcend frequently wagon hopping. the fact that Killthestory suggested that Transcend get on a wagon and then he immediately did just seems interesting to me.

88: I'm not sure what you mean by this. as far as I can tell, Transcend is implying that you're a gimmick account here.
158: I can't recall now why I marked this as a post I dislike, and since I'm thinking about it now, I don't really feel like it's bad anymore.
164: Creature's post 164 changed my mind about Io's post 81. I guess I should've made that more clear.
197: I don't understand what you mean by this.
199: yeah, as I said to Transcend, this is some bad reasoning based on a misinterpretation on my part of how neighborhoods work.

-----------------------
I figured out from context that TvT probably means "town vs town"! I'm so proud of myself for figuring that out even though it's not on the abbreviations page. anyway, I'm going to give some thought to the possibiity that that's what's going on with me and Transcend, because it wouldn't be the first time that me and another town player with very different playstyles mutually tunnel each other, so even though I find Transcend scummy, I don't want to ignore the possibility that that's because of my own cognitive biases.

I mostly like Naomi-Tan's reads list in post 518; I think the fact that she goes into some detail for each person about how her reads have evolved is a good thing. that said, pointing out that you dislike someone's attitude and that it doesn't seem very nice while voting for that person kind of feels like you're just tacking on another reason to vote them that isn't actually relevant to their alignment. you also seem to imply that a lot of your reads are close to null, which isn't necessarily great.

I really dislike the fact that Transcend is pretty much openly choosing not to engage with certain portions of the game. Vedith seems to kind of be doing the same with post 523.

I'm planning on doing more re-read posts, and I'll try to format them in such a way that it's easier to go through them. I tend to have an easier time processing information about the game if it's been a few days since I first read it, which is largely why I've used that format.

In post 635, Creature wrote:

1. xyzzy
2. Transcend

3. light_ganski
4. massive
5. Seraphim
6. Killthestory

7. BlackStar
8. Creature

9. Skelda
10. Vedith

11. Blitzkrieg
12. Io
13. Naomi-Tan

In post 670, Skelda wrote:Creature I think is Town.

BlackStar can be Town.

Naomi's posts I don't read, but they are long so she is Town by default. Solid logic, right?

I'm Town.

KTS is still scum.

Blitzkrieg is slightly scummy.

xxxyz or whatever I have no opinion on right now, but I don't want to lynch.

I dunno.

In post 673, Transcend wrote:Also I think Vedith is probably town. (Congrats Naomi u won the game!)

I'll give explanations to this updated reads list later but for now I sleep.

{Naomi}
{BlackStar, Creature}
{KTS, massive, Vedith, Io}
{Skelda, Seraphim}
{light}
{Blitz, xyzzy}

In post 686, Seraphim wrote:I'm sorry my predecessor sucked. I will try my damnedest to be a forthright member of the town, full of insight and good arguments. I

I'm about 20 pages in and almost caught up but I'm fairly convinced we should lynch light. Pretty obvious target for obvscum and a good D1 lynch regardless.

Transcend is town for having a lot of the same reads as me (not identical, but close enough as I read that I can feel his thought process).

Naomi is town b/c her playstyle is basically impossible to fake as scum. I was reading the game and figured this was the case and took a gander at her scum games and was basically proven correct. Transcend was convinced early on that Naomi was a gimmick account and while her posting style (i.e. as a 16-year old girl) is fairly annoying, I actually think she is acting like that which means that as scum it will be nearly impossible to replicate. Which means that she's town in this game, otherwise her posting would look way more fake.

Creature is also town and I would put down money that there is at least one scum on the Creature wagon. Light jumps out as an obvious candidate for a few reasons.

Here we see a textbook example of bullshit scum post. This is not a real case. It's not even a real PBPA. It's just a summary of posting with the word scummy thrown in now and again for shits and giggles.

This post sucks. Site meta must really be going down the tubes when a post like this doesn't get bandwagoned straight out the gate.

This post is exactly the sort of distancing tactic I would expect from scum with daytalk. In fact, the whole Vedith/light interaction on pages 19-20 stinks of two scum players coordinating a distancing interaction, not just that single post. Highly recommended reading.

Obviously I think Vedith is scum too and I think a Vedith/light_ganski scumteam is incredibly likely simply based on their interactions above.

Unvote
Vote: light_ganski

P-EDIT: no I am not ignoring the thread, likely I was looking at my phone. I try not to post from my phone, but I do use my phone to keep abreast of game events while working to post from my computer. I will only post from my phone if I have the time/patience to type it out and it's a short response. A big grand catch up post is not going to get done on my phone.

In post 734, Creature wrote:Wished we could townblock, if we can agree with each other:

• xyzzy - I don't think light_ganski would join my wagon right after his partner (this only applies if light_ganski flips scum).
  
• Transcend
  
• Seraphim - His catch-up was solid.
  
• BlackStar
  
• Creature - Why not?
  
• Blitzkrieg - Genuinely town
  
• Naomi-Tan

xyzzy would need to be look at further though

In post 735, Blitzkrieg wrote:Take out BlackStar and Seraphim and I am cool with that block.

In post 738, BlackStar wrote:Town: Naomi, transcend
Town lean: KTS, creature, blitzkrieg
Null: skelda, massive, io
Scum lean: seraphim, xyzzy
Scum: Light, Vedith

In post 747, light_ganski wrote:Hi I'm not dead

Reads:

{Naomi, Transcend}
{Xyzzy}
{KTS}
{Skelda, massive, Io}
{blackstar}
{Vedith, creature}

Still gotta ISO the new people

@Mod - I though I'd changed my vote to vedith in 495

In post 749, BlackStar wrote:

In post 747, light_ganski wrote:Hi I'm not dead

Reads:

{Naomi, Transcend}
{Xyzzy}
{KTS}
{Skelda, massive, Io}
{blackstar}
{Vedith, creature}

Still gotta ISO the new people

@Mod - I though I'd changed my vote to vedith in 495

I just noticed how similar your read list is to mine except for the locations of creature and xyzzy. What do you think about the wagon on you?

In post 935, Killthestory wrote:I genuinely think that the 'Black' slip was real. I can easily see myself doing that kind of thing, and it's definitely not impossible. However, the slip itself felt genuine, and it wasn't just out of nowhere like I'd have done. It wasn't forced, and it just came out. I like Black as town just from that one comment.

Creature pointing out that it could be fake is okay, but I find that slightly scummy because he didn't bother to read the interaction. He simply planted the doubt, and then he continued on as he felt. It's scummy to me, and I don't really like it.

Xyzzy's post about daytalk was pretty good, but it was really only good enough to put her to null-town.

God, Jordarrian is so scummy. When are we lynching that slot? The way he simply reacts to pressure is so terrible. Makes me cringe.

Light coming in to reiterate what was already said it scummy.

I like those who wagonned Jordarrian, at least 2/3 are town. Probably Creature is scum out of the two if one is scum.

Naomi's post is p g wit it. They can be town.

Io coming in was nice. I liked that. They can be town.

Naomi and Transcend are both town, but they TvT this page. Bad bad bad .

Creature talking shit over there, fuck you nerd.

Xyzzy not putting Jordarrian obvscum to L-2 is weird.

Light's whole shtick of "hey null scum!!1!" is really scummy, and I think they're just being really fence sittey because they don't want to have strong opinions.

Transcend is being aggressive, but I heard he was aggressive as scum, too. I wouldn't know, so lol.

Bad entrance by Pistoahcion

Naomi still p g wit it

In post 937, Killthestory wrote:Light redeems himself with the vote on Creature. Does not much else.

Creature does some self meta bullshit, and it's really dumb. Also, his vote is actually terrible. V

Black has a terrible vote, and he offers little content. Bad Black.

Creature saying scummy shit that really pings me as scum. I wouldn't mind him having a noose around his neck myself.

Naomi still town along with Transcend.

Vedith is terrible. Holy fuck, "creature is not scum" yes he fucking is. Who the fuck do you think you're feeling?

Xyzzy calling Io's post bad is bad.

Io's post was good. It showed a general sign of "i don't give a fuck" and I love their pressure on Creature.

In post 939, Killthestory wrote:IO IS A BAD WAGON. I CANT BELIEVE TRANSCEND HOPPED ON THAT.

CREATURE IS NOT REDEEMING. HE IS SCUM. BAD SCUM AT THAT.

jesus Christ, Io being a good town.

Black is, I think, town. Not too confident about that read, but I am confident about my scumread on Vedith

Transcend redeemed himself, hopping onto Creature.

CREATURE BEING A MEANY HEAD TO NAOMI. NAOMIS ALREADY BAEBTTER HTNA YOU DONT ASK HER EXPERIENCE.

Naomi being g alongside Io. Like that.

In post 998, Transcend wrote:Imo just townbloc {Creature, Naomi, Transcend, BlackStar, Io} and should be lock town win.

In post 999, Blitzkrieg wrote:

In post 998, Transcend wrote:Imo just townbloc {Creature, Naomi, Transcend, BlackStar, Io} and should be lock town win.

Your lock group has scum in it, so nope. Take out BlackStar and put in anyone but Seraphim and good to go.

In post 1107, Transcend wrote:Remind me why sera has to claim again and why xyzzy is escaping rope.

Also io, Naomi as scum? Really? ...really....

In post 1111, Skelda wrote:Yeah I don't get making Sera claim if we aren't lynching her and we aren't lynching her because it doesn't make sense to.

I'm telling you guys right now that there are people in that giant Townblock that you guys have that are scum. I know the exact block varies from person to person, but someone is slipping through the cracks. And the more I thin about it, the more I think xxyz and Seraphim might both be Town, though xxxyz is definitely the better lynch between the two because of some interactions with Light.

What do you guys think of Vedith? A lot of people have him as Town and I'm unsure why.

Also Naomi is Town.

In post 1113, Skelda wrote:

In post 1100, Io wrote:I feel like 2 of these guys here are scum Naomi, Skelda, Kill, and xyzzy.
As far as I'm concerned the lock town would be Black, Trans, Creature, and Verdith. Massive also looks really good, and Blitz looks townie too but just not someone I trust to lead lynches.

Well I know I'm Town and I think Naomi is Town too. Kill and xyzzy is technically possible, but no way is it that easy.

I don't think people arr as Town as you're making them out to be. I think there are scum being written off.

In post 1322, Naomi-Tan wrote:

MOD: Please fix the link to 1319 within 1318. It appears to not be functioning not giving people the choice to jump past it as I intended. Also VC. Thanks