In post 1251, Thor665 wrote: In post 1249, Klick wrote:Transcend doesn't get his
second
shot. Which changes everything. That's why the Vig was made two-shot in this setup, and why vigs are numbered evenly in general. Eventually we could end up in MyLo, where optimal play is to no-lynch. Killing Transcend essentially means town lost a town-controlled kill.
We get to lylo either way...
First of all: you are fully competent enough to understand the difference between MyLo and LyLo.
Pretending not to suggests that you see some tactical motivation in attributing the Transcend shot to Transcend's reads, which given his reads, well.
If it's not my style (and...what awareness are you claiming of my style?) then what makes you think I changed how I play scum in order to play this weird new way here?
I think that it is absolutely your style to push scum win-condition, then when it fails, to derail onto a bus to repair your standing in the town.
You're saying it's impossible for a lurker to be scum?
Because that's the only way this is an issue.
The implication is that you should have someone that you scumread more than a lurker, though I will agree that his point is not great and stand by you as the logically correct one here.
I gave a case on you - it's that your case on me is so blind and bad as to require you to be scum.
It's actually very slightly like your case on me - except the it doesn't require you to be intentionally playing bad as scum for the case to work as a scum case.
I don't think that anything that you have done this game requires you to be playing bad as scum.
I did.
Though in what I'm quoting you'd already established that you thought it was most likely for zero to one bussers max.
And I felt that two bussers was more likely than zero bussers and was curious to see if I understood you correctly.
Once you clarified I then got curious and asked more.
This interaction feels far less pointed than I would expect and sort of reads as SvS attempts at distancing to me.
If you believe Vig kills are superior or equal to lynches, sure.
They statistically are, but given that I have an 11/13 shot record on vigs in finished games, I may have a different feeling about them than is the norm.
I mean, just to clarify, he killed an active poster who most people had as a town read who was indeed town.
Describe how that's different from a scum kill.
I'll wait.
This is really your top priority to discuss? Because it feels like scum posture to me.
So now you're offering a really mediocre complaint of me talking theory when, basically it just happened this phase, for about three posts while I was also actively mauling your case on me and explaining why you're scum.
You duck all of that to make this complaint.
And post some videos.
Meh.
This doesn't feel like the way you talk as town. You held up far better than this against me throwing the book at you in the game with Una.
The way you post reads like you're faltering under pressure and that reads as more likely to come from scum you than as town who believes that you are being pushed by scum.
@Beef - literally moz is not dealing straight, and I think it's obvious. However you are apparently reading my rebuttals and his and finding him to be full of facts and me to be full of lies.
Why?
Please explain it, I'd be curious to see the thought process.
I promise not to even debate it - and just leave it alone for others to assess, but I want to see you unpack it.
Again: this feels like you're scum who believes that the case against you is objectively shit.
How exactly I define the difference between you being town and you being scum here isn't something in the realm of logic but I feel like there's something conscious in you attempting to boil everything down to facts and lies.
You obviously feel that you can compete in a game of macho repartee with anyone in this game (with the possible exception of me) so you're focusing on that but I feel like as town you'd be more like
asserting yourself as obvtown in general? Whereas here you're trying to limit the domain of the game to the one you feel you most excel in and I feel like you'd be more confident as town.
As a very minor third point - your reads also require moz and I to be scum theatre if I'm scum and we're amongst your strongest reads.
Why in the world would you think scum would pull the gambit we are in trying to make a 1 v 1 situation today? That doesn't seem like good play (or maybe you're going with the moz theory that I don't understand how to play to my wincon as scum at all
)
Actually I think it would be a reasonably strong play but if no one else besides me wants to lynch Mozamis for pushing scum wincondition harder than anyone in the game then I'm just going to move on and tell Transcend that he's a smurfwit for that as well as his Moneybags shot in postgame. There's not going to be any PR catches on people who played well as scum, the only goal is to get one person into the strongest possible position at one point.
1 I can agree his activity is non-alignment indicative. I'm just not sure where the 'banking on dying' becomes face value town true. If he was scum he could have been banking on dying from Transcend's shot just as much as if he were town, yeah? So, even if true - how is it alignment indicative?
This is true but doesn't address the heart of what Maxous was saying: not that scum wouldn't expect to die but that he didn't expect scum to talk about it in that manner.
Because his case is so thin as to be an inverse of itself. It's literally laughable how hard he's going in considering how empty his case is - and I'm the only one saying it while I have Beef claiming he's making good points and you claiming I'm not being clear (like...whut?) and Flubber so blind needing to tunnel me that, even though he is kind of aware moz's case is a laugh, he can't bring himself to unvote.
So first off, the actual case for you being scum is fine, just some of the other stuff is uhh questionable.
Second off, people's grasps of logic are rarely related to your alignment and if you're going to predicate your reads around town being logical and scum being illogical you might as well not play mafia.
Finally, Flubber being aware that Moz's case is a laugh doesn't mean that he thinks Moz is wrong. If I make a shit case on you and you completely unravel it you are not automatically town for it.
I also am not super fond of Moz's case on you or Moz's play in this game but that doesn't mean that I am obligated to think that you are town.
The case on me is dumb, RC, and you are the first one voting me who objectively I'm aware should be better than this.
Weren't you just earlier in the day phase talking about how you don't respect my play because of the Transcend so on and so forth?
As for my actual case on you being scum, that will follow.
