Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

[Mathdino]

look.

JJD publicly claimed alt in another game.

i did the research myself on D1 and figured out who JJD is (obviously not outing).

the metadive i did on JJD on D1 was faked. i metadived them based on their main, and came to the correct conclusion. JJD was aware i did that as well.

this is also why i've had general faith in JJD's reads. i believe their main is a better town player than espeonage, based on my experience with espeonage's bad tunnels. my realisation of their reads quality was one of the things that happened overnight.

if me doing that isn't enough to convince you i'm town, i don't know what will. you've played with both town-me and scum-me. you tunneled town-me and let scum-me slide by (to my recollection, i don't remember much of anything upick). you HAVE to realise at some point that your gut reads, especially when you read people based on what YOU would do as scum, are incredibly flawed.

[MariaR]

I had a hard tr on you in the game you think I tunneled you in that I don't have hear.
Eh I thought you were town when you were scum too but it wasn't as hard as it was with town you.

I don't think my read is gut I think I have evidence to support my read just becuase from your pov it's wrong doesn't make it gut.
Answer my last question ty and I think you're putting in too much credit on the JJD stuff that can be easily fake/isn't as good as you think it is

[Mathdino]

I'll go read it but I will tell you my main worries for you.
You already know how I feel about you setting up the day phase.
Your stance shifting today doesn't seem like reasons !townmath would support. I find it really hard to believe the main reason you're betting everything on wisdom scum is that you have no respect for my scum game and respect for wisdoms town game that's ???
The way you went into hyper mode right when me and Wisdom started to get on the same page

I'll go check out anything upick if it makes you feel better but I don't get why you're so against nling here if Wisdom is scum he prob nk's brass given my stance atm right? Isn't that what you want?
If I'm scum then scum me prob kills...uh *shrug* not you I'd guess isn't both cases good for you
why no nl? Do you want brass to clear me do you want to nl? What's your issue rn

i don't think based on my experience with you in N_M's game that you even really understand the reasons/tools i use for scumhunting. you also clearly didn't even read my wisdom case because "lack of respect for maria's scumgame" is the 5th reason, and "respect for wisdom's towngame" is the 6th reason.
put in the effort.

you and wisdom both scumreading me is a loss for me regardless of my alignment. you have to know that's NAI. you can check how i behave in lylos. you haven't though. you're reading me based on what you'd do as scum.

i'm against no lynching because brass is my only ticket to never being lynched. he:
- figured out that i'm town
- is one of the few players ever that's willing to put in the work to understand my meta
- is the only one other than me who's potentially aware of the fact that TW knew i was town (although i don't think he's figured that part out yet)

i'm against no lynching out of survivalism. i don't have faith that you make the correct call in lylo based on things you've literally said. if you no lynch, you're putting us in a position where you ARE the one who makes the call in lylo, and you're doing it without brass, who i know to be a good town player.

[Mathdino]

I had a hard tr on you in the game you think I tunneled you in that I don't have hear.
Eh I thought you were town when you were scum too but it wasn't as hard as it was with town you.

I don't think my read is gut I think I have evidence to support my read just becuase from your pov it's wrong doesn't make it gut.
Answer my last question ty and I think you're putting in too much credit on the JJD stuff that can be easily fake/isn't as good as you think it is

ummmmMMMMM you threatened to lynch me multiple times going into lylo

you don't fucking understand maria

there are things i'm straight up incapable of doing as scum that i'm still working on

do you think i put all that effort into metadiving JJD just so i could pull that card however far down the line

do you think i, as an unrecruited traitor, decide to bus TW who i know to be better at scum than i am, without clearance, when all of my scum PTs prove that i try to clear busses beforehand?

do you think i, as a RECRUITED traitor, come up with a brilliant plan with TW where i strongarm town into lynching him on D2 just so i can head into 6p with a playerlist full of good town players and people familiar with my meta?

[MariaR]

ummmmMMMMM you threatened to lynch me multiple times going into lylo

that was all fake to get scum to not nk me I was lynching cheeky if I was alive right away I was pming not mafia laughing about it

[MariaR]

do you think i, as a RECRUITED traitor, come up with a brilliant plan with TW where i strongarm town into lynching him on D2 just so i can head into 6p with a playerlist full of good town players and people familiar with my meta?

You were never in danger why is this so unrealistic

[MariaR]

who i know to be a good town player.

questionable @brass

[MariaR]

Your lack of paranoia over me feels fake.
And even when you were sring me you had almost none of wisdom
ir feels mechinal not normal.

[MariaR]

Like I'm not hard sold on you as you think I am but if I was to lynch rn it'd be you yes. I'm gonna go check out that game and if you think wisdom is scum I have a lot of time to do that.
Your worry is somewhat NAI but it still feels weird in a way I can't explain

[MariaR]

Is there any reasons why you're so convinced why I am not scum over Wisdom and can you go over why you thought I was scum over him from before

[MariaR]

maybe if brass votes I can be clear then die so I don't have to put in effort anymore AYYYYY
Didn't think I'd have to look at anything upick again but S U R E

[Mathdino]

ummmmMMMMM you threatened to lynch me multiple times going into lylo

that was all fake to get scum to not nk me I was lynching cheeky if I was alive right away I was pming not mafia laughing about it

stop doing this, it throws off dayplay
i sheeped what i thought your reads were that game

do you think i, as a RECRUITED traitor, come up with a brilliant plan with TW where i strongarm town into lynching him on D2 just so i can head into 6p with a playerlist full of good town players and people familiar with my meta?

You were never in danger why is this so unrealistic

because JJD has repeatedly shown awareness of my meta this game, brassherald has the ability to meta me, and I'M CONFIRMABLY CATCHABLE OFF META. YOU KNOW THAT.

who i know to be a good town player.

questionable @brass

oh fuck off
i played a newbie game with him where he basically D1 gamesolved
what's even the point of making this post dude

Your lack of paranoia over me feels fake.
And even when you were sring me you had almost none of wisdom
ir feels mechinal not normal.

you can't toneread, maria.

Like I'm not hard sold on you as you think I am but if I was to lynch rn it'd be you yes. I'm gonna go check out that game and if you think wisdom is scum I have a lot of time to do that.
Your worry is somewhat NAI but it still feels weird in a way I can't explain

somewhat NAI? are you fucking kidding me?

Is there any reasons why you're so convinced why I am not scum over Wisdom and can you go over why you thought I was scum over him from before

YES I GAVE A 6 POINT CASE JUST LAST FUCKING PAGE IN DESCENDING ORDER
NO I FUCKING CANT GO OVER WHY I THOUGHT YOU WERE SCUM, THIS WAS ALL OUT OF GAME INFORMATION

maybe if brass votes I can be clear then die so I don't have to put in effort anymore AYYYYY
Didn't think I'd have to look at anything upick again but S U R E

you're never dying maria, i promise you that
you said you didn't want to be in lylo and now you're tunneling town and ignoring the argument of the other townie here

i don't know how to reason with you. i really don't. this is outside of my charismarange.

[MariaR]

I'll be able to better handle you when I'm not half asleep on sleeping pills

[Mathdino]

maria let's go over all the people in this game who scumread me:

- thor, who scumread me for saying that i didn't want the bodyguard to claim
- espeonage, who was partially responsible for my first mislynch in 3 years
- uglyduck, who scumread me for trying to lynch the worst
oh yeah not to mention
- beefster, who voted me for absolute shit reasons
- TW, who also voted me for absolute shit reasons

now let's go over the people who townread me:

- brassherald, who has metadived me and played with me before. and correctly townread me. and who will be tonight's NK if you run it to deadline (which i consider to basically be you killing him).
- JJD, who i'm telling you right now is aware of my meta and how to read me.
- nauci, who was nightkilled.
and even wisdom got to a point where he realised i couldn't be scum here

[MariaR]

Your perception of me is incorrect I'm not this dumb person who just follows gut reads and goes "hur dur whatever" I take things into concideration sometimes I forget and I'll ask you to point it out to me again (like with the 6 page thing) but I go through hearing peoples answers and going through them in my head
If I played a game and listed out every single thought that went in my head in a mafia game we'd have so many more pages so I just condense them. Your words aren't on deaf ears I just hope you see my POV too. I still think lynching me the day before was the much better play given this game would be over by now if I got my way but we didn't and now we're here. We can't fix what we've done we gotta move on and learn from it.

[MariaR]

maria let's go over all the people in this game who scumread me:

- thor, who scumread me for saying that i didn't want the bodyguard to claim
- espeonage, who was partially responsible for my first mislynch in 3 years
- uglyduck, who scumread me for trying to lynch the worst
oh yeah not to mention
- beefster, who voted me for absolute shit reasons
- TW, who also voted me for absolute shit reasons

now let's go over the people who townread me:

- brassherald, who has metadived me and played with me before. and correctly townread me. and who will be tonight's NK if you run it to deadline (which i consider to basically be you killing him).
- JJD, who i'm telling you right now is aware of my meta and how to read me.
- nauci, who was nightkilled.
and even wisdom got to a point where he realised i couldn't be scum here

This is why I am asking brass to explain town you to me. JJD I don't have the same outlook as you do and for all I know that can be BS'd (I don't think it is but for the sake of argument) nauci the obv pr tr you I get that they're not

me

just like your fear of getting nk'd I want to reach the same conclusion everyone else did if correct.
The way you worded the wisdom one feels like you know he's town but that's prob bias.

[Mathdino]

There are 3 ways I could be scum.

A. I'm an unrecruited traitor. This is impossible because I'm on record numerous places for not bussing without clearance. TW is my bro. I guarantee I would not fucking bus him and put myself in a situation that I know I could lose. I'm claustrophobic and nervous as scum (I hate playing it). The only time I bussed and put myself in a lone scum situation was when my partner purposefully pissed me off in order to get me to bus him for genuine towncred. And I even cleared that with him in daytalk PT.
I know you play like this. I don't. I consider it to be rude out of principle to bus your partners without consent only to fucking lose.

B. I'm an original goon. This is impossible because I never pick rolecop because I AM a rolecop. I also never recruit the traitor.

C. I'm a recruited traitor. This is impossible because a very VERY basic read of TW shows that he wasn't treating me like a scumbuddy. TW doesn't like bussing. Neither do I.

I can name all sorts of things I would've done as scum here as high level strategy.
- I make sure my partners have designated fakeclaims from the getgo. TW had 0 breadcrumbs for goon cop. I would've made him breadcrumb that and breadcrumbed something myself.
- Again, I don't bus my partner who is in 0 danger out of nowhere when I can just let Espeonage mislynch you. I'm almost positive that a me/TW scumteam tries to survive to endgame. I'm bad at faking bussing.
- I don't have Beefster scumclaim by voting me out of the blue with no reason. I can organise a team better than that.
- I notice who in this game is most dangerous to me and my meta, and that's hands-down JJD.

i'm a very good high-level scum player and bad at scum in the field, or in actually executing plans, or in dayplay

this scumteam has played badly on a high-level and well on a low-level (i.e. the worst didn't scumclaim or anything, i kinda just caught him off PoE and subtle things about him).

i can't be a recruited traitor.

[Mathdino]

Your perception of me is incorrect I'm not this dumb person who just follows gut reads and goes "hur dur whatever" I take things into concideration sometimes I forget and I'll ask you to point it out to me again (like with the 6 page thing) but I go through hearing peoples answers and going through them in my head
If I played a game and listed out every single thought that went in my head in a mafia game we'd have so many more pages so I just condense them. Your words aren't on deaf ears I just hope you see my POV too. I still think lynching me the day before was the much better play given this game would be over by now if I got my way but we didn't and now we're here. We can't fix what we've done we gotta move on and learn from it.

thanks for the argument actually!

because it would've been so fucking simple for scum-me

lynch you for literally asking to be lynched (I HAVE POLICY LYNCHED EVERY PLAYER WHO ASKS TO BE LYNCHED WHEN I'M SCUM WITH 0 EXCEPTIONS)

and then lynch espeonage for saying that you were 100% scum

incidentally, had we lynched you i probably would've lynched espeonage today anyway and you're right the game would be over by now. either way i get put into a lylo with a player with bad reads.

but no, i tried to fucking solve the game by shooting for espeonage --> wisdom

and now i'm at a roadblock.

[Mathdino]

I HAVE POLICY LYNCHED EVERY PLAYER WHO ASKS TO BE LYNCHED WHEN I'M SCUM WITH 0 EXCEPTIONS

you know this to be true but lemme go over people

- Jester Nightless: policy lynched Not_Mafia (my scumbuddy) and eth0s in 4p

- Micro 769: lynched Dunkerdoodles partially for saying "lynch me if I'm wrong on TGP" and for being wrong on TGP

[MariaR]

Will come back when not half asleep

[brassherald]

I'll do another town Math case for Maria when I have a chance later on, my thinking is, though, we need Maria on board to lynch Wisdom since we need 3 votes. If both Maria and Wisdom are dead set on no lynching today, we have no lynch for the day.

[Wisdom]

maybe if brass votes I can be clear then die so I don't have to put in effort anymore AYYYYY

lmao
youd like that, wouldn't you

[Wisdom]

brass maria is just waiting for the quickhammer here

[brassherald]

That's why I haven't voted, I'm still a little paranoid. I might just review the entire game over lunch today, provided I actually have the time to eat lunch today.

[Wisdom]

math your case is so ridiculously bad that i wont even bother