Mini Normal 2012: Tropical Mafia [Endgame]

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Well, CONGRATULATIONS to Havo & Gus. You did quite well and the NIGHT KILLS in particular were all PERFECT.

GG all. (and special apologies to texcat, but you were definitely the weakest link for me to exploit. SORRY!)

P-edit: I was also a bit lucky he didn't JK my slot at all. My slot made 2 kills AND I claimed 3 successful night actions.

[JarJarDrinks]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

I made a weak effort for a lurker lynch but was promptly shut down. I agree that lurker lynches should always be on the table.

[northsidegal]

Town got super unlucky with how Night One panned out - that shit was unreal.

Mumble keeping the JK claim to himself was a bad move though. Could have avoided Shoshin being lynched

I think it was the right move, honestly, and especially so given that the JK was one of the main / only sources of town power. I think the mistake was in lynching invisibility.

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

@NSG: Please confirm having read the last PM from me. Thanks

[Gustavo]

Well, CONGRATULATIONS to Havo & Gus. You did quite well and the NIGHT KILLS in particular were all PERFECT.

GG all. (and special apologies to texcat, but you were definitely the weakest link for me to exploit. SORRY!)

P-edit: I was also a bit lucky he didn't JK my slot at all. My slot made 2 kills AND I claimed 3 successful night actions.

Thanks but I was prett inactive and the game days always hit bad times for me. Lurking wasn’t my strategy.

[Gustavo]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

I do agree with this. I used to play on a site that always lynched lurkers day 1. Town won more than scum.

[Havo]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

I do agree with this. I used to play on a site that always lynched lurkers day 1. Town won more than scum.

This. If you don’t like lurkers and inactives you HAVE to policy lynch.

After a few months you want need too anymore.

Same with Lynch all Liars.

[Gustavo]

It's so ridiculously hard to lynch lurkers on this site though.

Site meta has to change.

I do agree with this. I used to play on a site that always lynched lurkers day 1. Town won more than scum.

This. If you don’t like lurkers and inactives you HAVE to policy lynch.

After a few months you want need too anymore.

Same with Lynch all Liars.

This. Years ago me and a few others were run off for lying as town. Now it’s accepted practice and some do it intentionally (boonskiies)

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

I do it all the time! I mean, I actually lie more as town than I do as scum!

[Gustavo]

Why tho?

[Gustavo]

There is a game in signups. I’d be down for a mafia scum social experiment. Lynch lurker day 1

[Judge Joseph Dredd]

Why tho?

Definitely

not

"for the fun if it". I lie when I deem needed. For example, I once faked PGO as the Town Vig, because I obviously didn't want to get shot early by scum.

[Gustavo]

Why tho?

Definitely

not

"for the fun if it". I lie when I deem needed. For example, I once faked PGO as the Town Vig, because I obviously didn't want to get shot early by scum.

That’s different. I’m talking about poeple who fake claim roles when they are Vt.

[Shoshin]

Meh, congrats scum. I'm not surprised at all by who you are.

I think if Mumble hadn't played so bad town might have won, he pretty much lost us the game with his shit play on D2 and D3 and D4. It sucks that we mislynched Invis on D1 and D2 (sorry Invis) but that didn't mean we were doomed. By D3, I had strong townreads on Jar and relatively solid townreads on tex, fitz, and bacy (and would have felt better about this if I knew Mumble's claim) - I strongly suspected Havo, and had suspicions of Mumble (who probably could have turned my read around with his claim), Gustavo, and Judge. I don't think we were that far from figuring this out if people wouldn't have mislynched me - and that mislynch could have easily been avoided if Mumble hadn't been so dumb.

This game went from winnable to lost based entirely on Mumble's play. I hope he learns from his mistakes.

[Shoshin]

I don't think lurking or lying are indicative of alignment - too many town lurk for it to have much meaning, and lying just means someone had something to hide, the question to ask is what they're hiding.

[Shoshin]

Why tho?

Definitely

not

"for the fun if it". I lie when I deem needed. For example, I once faked PGO as the Town Vig, because I obviously didn't want to get shot early by scum.

That’s different. I’m talking about poeple who fake claim roles when they are Vt.

And yeah, that's pretty dumb. Don't think I've seen that before.

[Havo]

I’ve only played 20 or so games here. But the one thing that jumped out at me early is that on this site town rarely plays as a team. Towns here have a habit of destroying each other. So I definitely let that play out. Just set back and watch it burn. Lol.

[Shoshin]

Yeah, I'm noticing that as well. Very difficult to get people to work as a team here.

[Mumble]

Meh, congrats scum. I'm not surprised at all by who you are.

I think if Mumble hadn't played so bad town might have won, he pretty much lost us the game with his shit play on D2 and D3 and D4. It sucks that we mislynched Invis on D1 and D2 (sorry Invis) but that didn't mean we were doomed. By D3, I had strong townreads on Jar and relatively solid townreads on tex, fitz, and bacy (and would have felt better about this if I knew Mumble's claim) - I strongly suspected Havo, and had suspicions of Mumble (who probably could have turned my read around with his claim), Gustavo, and Judge. I don't think we were that far from figuring this out if people wouldn't have mislynched me - and that mislynch could have easily been avoided if Mumble hadn't been so dumb.

This game went from winnable to lost based entirely on Mumble's play. I hope he learns from his mistakes.

Fuck you.

If you hadn't been so derp tunnely on me I wouldn't have given you a second glance. We should have lynched you D2 and we would have been in a much better position. I still don't know why Invis was lynched, but you can't call that good town play. Did I make mistakes, sure. But to attribute this solely to me...Get off your fucking high horse, Shoshin.

[Gustavo]

I’ve only played 20 or so games here. But the one thing that jumped out at me early is that on this site town rarely plays as a team. Towns here have a habit of destroying each other. So I definitely let that play out. Just set back and watch it burn. Lol.

This

[mhsmith0]

In retrospect I think this setup was probably scumsided - that being said, it did end up happening that town ran into the worst possible scenario, so there's also just an element of getting unlucky.

I also don't think that JJD's claim as a role would be possible under the new normal guidelines (which this game was passed under).

FWIW... Eyeballing, I'd say setup was pretty well within standardish mini normal balance bounds. Basically a cop (honestly, BETTER than a cop since he doesn't need to out results, as people will out fruit receipt for him) and jailkeeper plus a third non-terrible PR, against a goon team.

[mhsmith0]

goon team w daychat, but the day chat was dependent on the encryptor role.

[northsidegal]

FWIW... Eyeballing, I'd say setup was pretty well within standardish mini normal balance bounds. Basically a cop (honestly, BETTER than a cop since he doesn't need to out results, as people will out fruit receipt for him) and jailkeeper plus a third non-terrible PR, against a goon team.

Plus the LFV gets an investigate even if he's shot at night assuming he crumbs / claims his target for the next day.

Honestly I think town just got

exceedingly

unlucky this time with the Motion Detector claiming on Day 1 while not under any pressure and with the JK targeting the LFV.

[mhsmith0]

oh yeah jailkeeper targeting cop is always a risk in this sort of thing. it's what keeps it from being op for town. the specific jk-fruit vendor interaction has some danger, of course, but that's just the risk of the game. Without those risky interactions, town gets super OP.

Like just a generically plausible early game state:

Day 1 vt lynch
Night 1 vt shot, fruit delivered to another vt

Day 2 is 8/3 with motion detector, basically a loud cop (not quite as good since false guilties are a risk), jailkeeper, and a fully cleared townie. Motion detector and jailkeeper can nearly call their shots on whoever they want (and both become only stronger as the game goes on). Even if scum correctly mislynch a VT and shoot the jailkeeper, you're potentially looking at a dead jailkeeper but now 6/3 with FOUR cleared townies.

Quickly you reach the point where scum just need to outright lynch a PR to win, even without any early scum lynches.

Against that lies the potential for screwball stuff with role interactions, and the possibility that a wolf with balls claims the fruit vendor on the night of the kill and has the claim go through to falsely get cleared.

Overall I'd pass it.

[Gustavo]

Fuck you.

Be mad. That’s good. It helps you learn

He’s 100% right. Town had a chance to salvage themselves and you not backing off bbt hurt town. You not protecting a claimed Pr hurt town. You not speaking up to save shoshin hurt town.