Mafiascum.net

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Prism wrote:YOOOOOO WELCOME

I concur that flow trap's early game comes off as fairly town, mostly in seeing that a lot of how they choose to engage with others is consistent and probably stylistic. I also found the partner pairings town for the effort. I'm a lot more concerned by their play today but there's a big gap between my top scumread, floo, and everyone else.

hmm. i like some of floo's early reads; there's a depth of thought there that looks like he's contemplating the game. his posts seem VERY cautious though, like he's terrified of using the wrong word or saying the wrong thing. i could see that as conscientiousness rather than scum, though. that's about all i've got floo since there's not much content

Prism, I apologize for acting like a jerk sometimes; I have decided to trust you can will answer (almost) anything you ask to the best of my ability

I had been rather proud of being able to at least make a guess of the mafia team by now. Typically, I know it is going to be a hard win when I couldn't figure it out at this point.

well this is a thing

In post 1272, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:I have the feeling that Spartan117 is deliberately misinterpreting my posts to scumread me. Why do you townread Spartan117?

It doesn't feel deliberate to me. I'll concede that you are eminently targetable if you are town, but frankly I'm not exactly sure why scum outs themselves this hard/pushes like crazy all day against you when you are town here. It might be a bad read (in the case where you are town), but it is a high visibility and high cost read for scum to take knowing that you are town.

Alright, here's where I'm at.

I buy fairy's entrance to the game wholeheartedly, as I did the same thing with reading safebet and trying to guess their alignment before replacing into the slot, and while they scumread me, I don't think I've played all that well this game so I can understand that, plus their catch up posts have felt very good to me with maybe the slight exception of the last (noting the cautiousness of floo's posts is close to echoing Prism's reads on the same subject, which is either very good or copying off the homework of A student in the room). Fairy is off the table today for me as well.

Fred popping in a bit is good, but I still feel like I don't have a good read on how they see the game other than the two slots they are suspicious of; I don't really understand why Fred is suspicious of them precisely, but I see this as a good sign. Still not interested in a Fred elim today.

Prism is locktown to me.

Flow Trap is town to me.

Lots of pressure on Floo right now. Fred, fairy, prism all willing to vote in that direction, making a decently compelling argument for it. No obvious counterwagons have appeared, game has stalled out a little. This is interesting.

Spartian has been missing the last little bit. Still hard for me to find a Spartian SR right now.

Vote order as of right this second is:
floo->spartian/fred->flow->fairy->prism

Which surprises me a little, because I'm really struggling to find people to elim where I don't feel scared about it coming up green, and I feel like I've let myself be convinced that floo is scummy by how much I think Prism is good town if town, and that I think they are town.

I really need to think about the spartian/fred thing. Also, I need to figure out who is scummy in the case of floo flipping green, and decide if that shifts any of my feelings about flipping them today.

In post 1301, fairyprincess69 wrote:hmm. i like some of floo's early reads; there's a depth of thought there that looks like he's contemplating the game. his posts seem VERY cautious though, like he's terrified of using the wrong word or saying the wrong thing. i could see that as conscientiousness rather than scum, though. that's about all i've got floo since there's not much content

I misread this post, and thought you were willing to vote floo today.
Don't know if this changes my reads at all, just didn't want to misrepresent your point in my above post.

In post 1296, flow trap wrote:No one has ever listened to me before in my life so idk how to argue for any point

Hey! I thought you had rather insightful reads embedded in your partner analysis posts. Or at least, reads that did exist.

Giving reads isn't always about convincing others that you are right; it's also a major metric that I use to determine if I think someone is town or not. Giving reads helps pin you down a little, speaks to motives, and is generally hard to fake in a sustained way. It doesn't matter in the end if you convince anyone that you are right about other people, it just helps us feel right about you.

Though it would be nice for some help in this game because, uh, basically all I see are towny faces all around me and it's stressing me out.

Yesterday was busier than I expected. responding to some recent posts (starting at page 50) first.

1226 and succeeding posts: Fred forced to maintain his appearance of being lazy if scum, and has committed to no effort if town. Asking questions is the best way to get info from Fred at this point, especially yes/no ones that can be answered in seconds.

@Frederick A Campbell please explain whatever reads come to your mind in 5ish words each? Even if you don't have the time to respond to follow up questions, just having the basic reasons is useful to everyone. A brief "Lurking, evades my questions" is far more useful than no explanation.

Typing up some follow up posts quickly.

In post 1258, fairyprincess69 wrote:hey guys! not quite sure how replacing into a game at this stage is gonna go, but i figured id give it a shot to test myself. i was decently confident of my slot being town based on a quick skim of the last few pages - i felt her frustration at not being understood and her decision to leave abruptly was coming from a town's POV. i'd much rather replace into town than scum, so yeah.

how would you guys like me to approach this? read through the whole thread first or provide reads bit by bit? im thinking the former will be less annoying, but i'd like to ask questions about the early stages of the game even if it's from like 2 weeks ago. tell me wat ya think.

VOTE: quiet this dude's maf btw

Apologies for the delay I have been very busy irl. Welcome Fairy I understand it will prob be quite a challenge to jump in this far in, the best of luck. Just reading through the last couple pages.

In post 1226, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:Spartan117, it is brilliant of you, knowing how little time I spend per day on this game, to continue making wall after wall with the expectation that I will respond to it and forget to read the rest of the thread.

Please point out where you have provided some detailed reads proving insight for us to work with, any thoughts on all the people here who youve not shared what alignment you think they are, where do you rank everyone?

In post 1227, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:Actually, Spartan117, I am kind of getting why you are scumreading me now. Not that I can do anything about it, though.

Sure you can just keep posting and providing your thoughts, give us something to worth with rather than lurking and prodging.

In post 1233, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:Another attempt to deflect and be dismissive? How is trying my best to respond to everything within my time constraints "another attempt to deflect and be dismissive?"

In the two days since this post where you have answered the questions I have proposed to you let alone, questions the others have asked of you, if this is trying your best, I honestly am not sure this is the right sorta thing for you. You still havent even attempted to answer the challenge I set you.

In post 1271, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:VOTE: floo

Why after Prism says they are never not voting floo in 1269 (something I still don't understand as there are far scummier players, floo has actually been trying to solve the game and has natural reads rather than just town reading everyone like quiet) does two posts later Fredrick vote floo without any reasoning what so ever, as if to jump on a band wagon yet again, it seems like their play style to vote whoever other people see as sus which is just major scum vibes and I seriously don't understand why people are town reading you at all.

In post 1272, Fredrick A Campbell wrote:I have the feeling that Spartan117 is deliberately misinterpreting my posts to scumread me. Why do you townread Spartan117?

Rather than just trying to deflect my points in general and say you think im deliberately misinterpreting your posts how about you actually say what posts you think that refers to than just making a wild unexplained statement, are you afraid of me scumreading you is that it? how about you tell us why you are town, tell me what you have done in this whole game that allows us to read you as town. You have been aloof and provided no info and have been very scummy all game, I really do not understand where the town reads are coming from...

In post 1274, flow trap wrote:I think the round is dragging out so who are we shooting?

How about you? Since you are so desperate for this day to end?

In post 1277, Prism wrote:Actually I'm tired of gentle encouragement/being patient just because you've *~consistently~* been difficult all game.

I want to vote floo. If I can't get floo, and you're transparently not even sorting at all, I will absolutely vote you and feel zero remorse about it if you flip town. Even Frederick is trying.

Why is floo your main target, why are they a better vote than Fredrick, Sal/Fairy, or Quiet?

Please show me where you see fredrick is actually trying? I feel its as if I am reading a completely different game to you guys are some of the posts hidden that he is posting?

In post 1285, flow trap wrote:I'm not random voting and just because I don't state my reads doesn't mean I don't have them

Unhelpful

In post 1288, flow trap wrote:You are ignoring when I actually make reads

Contradicting and unhelpful...

In post 1296, flow trap wrote:No one has ever listened to me before in my life so idk how to argue for any point

Flow, dude, we are all here listening just speak to us we just want to solve this and that will be so much easier if yourself and fredrick would speak more openly and help sort players rather than hiding your point of views.

@Prism the point you're missing is that I find the main emotion in Sal's posts to be fear. A reaction is not evidence of fear in itself; however when you have longer posts suggest a fear emotion, then it is plausible for those kind of reactions to be fear motivated. Compare a post like 426 from flow trap, these kind of short reactions don't ever mean anything in themselves. They're important when taken as a collective. They're very important when compared to other types of posts to look at the underlying motives and emotions.

1264 The reason to call me low effort, for Prism, is not seeing a reason to scumread the fairy slot while my townreads aren't impressive. Prism is making it sound like Sal was obvious town, in that pushing her, even having a wrong read, would make me scum. If you don't think Sal is an obvious enough townread for that, the other reason to scumread me is my tone. What difference is there between sounding angry or mocking at times between the former Sal and me?

Yes, I was reaction baiting. How much though? I'll look back at my former posts. 1108 wasn't thought out too carefully. If I had explained "arrogance" and "image-consciousness" more thoroughly, it would not have been openly provocative. It would have taken an analytical tone, even if that sounds brutally honest. I didn't really feel the need to explain those points, as I expected Sal to talk it out more rather than ignoring it even if only one sentence. I was trying to see what she would do with it, how she proves she's not being arrogant or image-conscious without too much evidence to refute, or admitting it herself.

1127 is the one post designed to reaction bait the most. I didn't expect sal to respond to my scumread with literally the same thing I scumread her for. I have to admit it was quickly thought out and written poorly. I should have taken a less combative tone like "OK, you're doing the same thing I scumread you for. In retrospect do you think you were acting arrogantly? etc" I knew a fight would happen though, but only predicted that it would continue for 3 or less days before it evolved into a less acrimonious discussion. A net negative considering what happened afterwards. I couldn't have foreseen the sub.

The rest of my posts elaborating on my read are like 1108, attempting to be objectively analytical. I prioritized building my case with reasoning over making sure another player's mental state (which broke down unexpectedly quickly and hard) was temporarily stable.

1204 is like 1127, I would agree it's a combative tone. I wrote it in ~15 seconds. 1127 not an irrational decision in retrospect, but learning from 1127, 1204 was a clear mistake.

1212 After half an hour I realized I was taking this too far. I tried to rectify the situation as quickly as possible, and I thought the post in itself implied I'd calm down. My move was decent, if I could improve it there I'd apologize and promise to calm down explicitly.

BTW I again prioritized solving the puzzle (i.e. my reads) over communications (e.g. by expressing remorse like Prism has suggested). I didn't feel a need to go , it's not how I play commenting my feelings at every twist and turn of the game. I'm at high risk for death now though so you got your apology.

TLDR I explained my perception of the events that led to Prism scumreading me. I still consider the slot the best scumread push for today (unless I review further and discover a scummier player) and believe that pushing her was the right move to make. I do apologize, however, for rash words that over-escalated the situation and know I should have de-escalated the situation quicker.

1266 I agree being upset is not a scumtell. But being overly upset in response to inconsequential matters is a scumtell. And acting really upset in a way that seems unnatural (i.e. refusing to scumread me while saying I'm playing well if scum but horribly if town, which would be a scumtell in her eyes) is also suspicious.

1269 @Prism just to be sure, are you 100% confident I'm scum? I've explained what you're getting wrong about my point.

also 1270 @Fredrick wild gut guess, take it with a grain of salt.

In post 1306, quiet wrote:Fairy is off the table today for me as well.

Why has your perspective on this changed, is this just to allow fairy to share their perspective with the group in which case I would understand, or has your position on the slot changed after you was so happy to place your vote on Sal previously?

In post 1306, quiet wrote:Fred popping in a bit is good, but I still feel like I don't have a good read on how they see the game other than the two slots they are suspicious of; I don't really understand why Fred is suspicious of them precisely, but I see this as a good sign. Still not interested in a Fred elim today.

Why are you not interested in a Fred elim today? are you protecting him? I don't understand why you flow trap and prism are town reading this slot, can someone please show me where they have been town, show me where they have pushed for reads, show me where they have shared even some detailed reads on players of their own, something? anything? that in itself moves the game along?

My worry at this point is that there is a Flow trap/Prism/Quiet scum team where they are keeping fredrick around today so that they have him for the final 5 tomorrow, if he is supposedly town and easy lynch bait, it has already been agreed that if enchant didnt impload D1, Fredrick would have been the best D1 lynch target, at least he certainly was from my pov.

In post 1306, quiet wrote:Prism is locktown to me.

Why?

In post 1306, quiet wrote:Flow Trap is town to me.

Why?


Are one of these your scum buddy?

In post 1306, quiet wrote:Vote order as of right this second is:
floo->spartian/fred->flow->fairy->prism

Why is floo your main scum read? And why have I been put inline with Fredrick, looking at our ISOs do you think they matchup? do you think we have provided a similar output in terms of reads, pushes, trying to get the game moving, like seriously he has been prodging multiple times and hasnt provided any meaningful reads. I don't like that you seem to town read everyone, it is way easier as scum to just say everyone is town rather that trying to push people and find the suspicious things they have done and actually investigate as town. It seems to me you are just trying to stay under the radar and blend in, it is typical of scum to struggle to form reads on people something that looks very apparent from your content. It looks to me as you are either trying to protect your scum buddy Fredrick or carry him through to the last 5 with either Prism or Flow trap.

In post 1306, quiet wrote:I'm really struggling to find people to elim where I don't feel scared about it coming up green

While this could be genuine I feel like its more likely that you don't wish to upset anybody, you seem way too reserved to be town, more likely scum hidden in a guise of words.

VOTE: quiet

The issue with it isn't that Salsabil was obviously town, or that you had no reason to push the slot to begin with. The issue is that if those emotions were legitimate, they were always going to continue if you baited it out. If she's scum she feels fear, if she's town she's upset and angry. Taking a step back and rationally explaining would be and all, but it'd be a miracle.

You're claiming to be reaction baiting but "didn't expect sal to respond to my scumread with literally the same thing I scumread her for [emotional dismissiveness]" What did you expect from her as town here where her emotions are legitimate?

You're taking into account the emotions now that I've pointed them out but still failing to use them to sort her slot now knowing that, even if she were scum, she was .

In post 1318, floo wrote:1266 I agree being upset is not a scumtell. But being overly upset in response to inconsequential matters is a scumtell. And acting really upset in a way that seems unnatural (i.e. refusing to scumread me while saying I'm playing well if scum but horribly if town, which would be a scumtell in her eyes) is also suspicious.

Viewing the flow trap interaction as inconsequential implies that it's fine to not take it seriously. Yet here we are, pushing the slot for not taking it seriously.

If you're referring to the followup, I do not think you actively and openly baiting her knowing she's upset is an inconsequential matter.

In post 1318, floo wrote:@Prism just to be sure, are you 100% confident I'm scum? I've explained what you're getting wrong about my point.

Nothing is ever 100%, and I miss all the time. The wall did not help. You're my vote for today, if I get it and I'm wrong I'll deal with it tomorrow. If I don't get it, we have a whole week to revisit but you're better off nightkilling me and claiming WIFOM.

I don't think your interpretation of Salsabil is natural, I think that push continues to work backwards from your desired conclusion, and I don't like that it's taken you being legitimately under pressure under deadline to engage with me at any point in the game.

In post 1302, flow trap wrote:Prism, I apologize for acting like a jerk sometimes; I have decided to trust you can will answer (almost) anything you ask to the best of my ability

It's okay, and I appreciate this.

Personally, I want to know why you don't really want to vote floo today.

That said, my whole point here is that it's a team game. I'm not the only channel/avenue to dialogue through; I don't think talking to scum is the worst thing in the world and there are other town with thoughts as valid as mine. I'm down to talk about any slot you want, and I imagine quiet is as well.

In post 1310, floo wrote:Yesterday was busier than I expected. responding to some recent posts (starting at page 50) first.

1226 and succeeding posts: Fred forced to maintain his appearance of being lazy if scum, and has committed to no effort if town. Asking questions is the best way to get info from Fred at this point, especially yes/no ones that can be answered in seconds.

@Frederick A Campbell please explain whatever reads come to your mind in 5ish words each? Even if you don't have the time to respond to follow up questions, just having the basic reasons is useful to everyone. A brief "Lurking, evades my questions" is far more useful than no explanation.

Typing up some follow up posts quickly.

Blatantly preparing to pivot over to Frederick, yikes dude

allez