Mini 2056: Ballroom Blitz (Game Over)

[mastina]

I really liked this concept.

I mean it's a mastina-generated game, that's usually the case.

My regrets here are mostly in missed opportunities. I lost a GOLDEN opportunity to make the ultimate pun/reference with a NecroDancer role; mcqueen's role is comparatively bland to others in the game; Moment's role is underpowered compared to the other roles in the game. I discussed in the spoilered dead topic a few ideas I had which would've strengthened their roles; I wouldn't implement all of them since that'd bounce the game into being absurdly townsided, but so much as one or two of them implemented would mean the setup wasn't scumsided.

Speaking of which:

@Mastina
I think the setup was fairly balanced. I think if town used it correctly though it could be townsided. I read your post in the spoilers thread and agreed with basically all of what you were saying. If town had been organized, it could have gotten two lynches per day and two pro-town NKs. I even tried to sell that strategy in the thread to try to get a hold of the reins as town leader but either people didn’t trust me or didn’t like the concept of turning it into double day.

Yep, as I pointed out in the spoilered dead topic,

This setup actually doesn’t feel scumsided from this angle. The two lynches are brutal and the mechanic with volunteering to pair is very informative.

For the record, almost responded to this in the mafia PT but decided better of it on the grounds that it could be seen as mod interference, so I'll make a note of it for him to see later, instead.

The

setup

is scumsided. The mechanic was not factored into the town/scum EV of the setup in terms of townsidedness/scumsidedness. By that, I mean, the mechanic was treated as net-neutral. Between Blitz deadlines (which some people SWEAR to as being pro-town), plurality lynches (to ensure the town only no-lynched when choosing to, meaning they don't waste days), and the dance mechanic, it was my hope that these things would serve to counter the scumsidedness of the setup. It was my hope that the mechanics would serve as a balancing factor, to make the setup be more even, more fair.

But I advertised the setup as scumsided because I felt the idea of relying on mechanics as a balancing factor would be unfair on the players--there was simply no way to guarantee that the mechanics were pro-town, and every mechanic I mentioned could just as easily backfire on the town. They can and did plurality lynch a PR; the Blitz deadlines limits time to talk; they can get two town players killed at once, etc.

So he's actually kinda right, in a way. The setup is scumsided, but with proper utilization of mechanics, the game is not. I just felt that calling the game loosely balanced because of mechanics in an otherwise scumsided setup wasn't a fair call to make. Especially not given the swingy-as-fuck nature of said mechanics. The roles for this game are fairly low-swing, and what little swing IS involved mostly favors the scum. The mechanics for this game are some of the most swingy I've ever invented, and I felt uncomfortable saying that they favored the town.

tl;dr version, I feel the

setup

in of itself is scumsided, but with proper utilization of the mechanics it could become balanced, or even potentially favoring the town--and yet, relying on a self-evidently swingy mechanic which would only help the town if properly utilized felt like something I simply couldn't in good conscience use to call the

game

balanced.

So the game was probably balanced or close to, albeit highly swingy; the roles were undeniably favoring the scum.

Hope the players had fun with the game. Running blitzes are hard, even with help. But the punny name/theme was just too good to pass up on.

[EeveeLution Army]

Whats wim btw

[Eragon]

i think the game was a balanced overall

Town got shafted having 2 full-on lurkers that didnt even get replaced out

scum played well

i fucked up D1

just general apathy

ignorance of the dance function

i could go on

[Eragon]

Whats wim btw

"Want it more"

basically just like... a general feel of the game

if you are apathetic/lazy/bored thats generally "low WIM"

but being energetic and enthusiastic and hyped for the game is "high WIM"

[EeveeLution Army]

I really liked this concept.

I mean it's a mastina-generated game, that's usually the case.

My regrets here are mostly in missed opportunities. I lost a GOLDEN opportunity to make the ultimate pun/reference with a NecroDancer role; mcqueen's role is comparatively bland to others in the game; Moment's role is underpowered compared to the other roles in the game. I discussed in the spoilered dead topic a few ideas I had which would've strengthened their roles; I wouldn't implement all of them since that'd bounce the game into being absurdly townsided, but so much as one or two of them implemented would mean the setup wasn't scumsided.

Speaking of which:

@Mastina
I think the setup was fairly balanced. I think if town used it correctly though it could be townsided. I read your post in the spoilers thread and agreed with basically all of what you were saying. If town had been organized, it could have gotten two lynches per day and two pro-town NKs. I even tried to sell that strategy in the thread to try to get a hold of the reins as town leader but either people didn’t trust me or didn’t like the concept of turning it into double day.

Yep, as I pointed out in the spoilered dead topic,

This setup actually doesn’t feel scumsided from this angle. The two lynches are brutal and the mechanic with volunteering to pair is very informative.

For the record, almost responded to this in the mafia PT but decided better of it on the grounds that it could be seen as mod interference, so I'll make a note of it for him to see later, instead.

The

setup

is scumsided. The mechanic was not factored into the town/scum EV of the setup in terms of townsidedness/scumsidedness. By that, I mean, the mechanic was treated as net-neutral. Between Blitz deadlines (which some people SWEAR to as being pro-town), plurality lynches (to ensure the town only no-lynched when choosing to, meaning they don't waste days), and the dance mechanic, it was my hope that these things would serve to counter the scumsidedness of the setup. It was my hope that the mechanics would serve as a balancing factor, to make the setup be more even, more fair.

But I advertised the setup as scumsided because I felt the idea of relying on mechanics as a balancing factor would be unfair on the players--there was simply no way to guarantee that the mechanics were pro-town, and every mechanic I mentioned could just as easily backfire on the town. They can and did plurality lynch a PR; the Blitz deadlines limits time to talk; they can get two town players killed at once, etc.

So he's actually kinda right, in a way. The setup is scumsided, but with proper utilization of mechanics, the game is not. I just felt that calling the game loosely balanced because of mechanics in an otherwise scumsided setup wasn't a fair call to make. Especially not given the swingy-as-fuck nature of said mechanics. The roles for this game are fairly low-swing, and what little swing IS involved mostly favors the scum. The mechanics for this game are some of the most swingy I've ever invented, and I felt uncomfortable saying that they favored the town.

tl;dr version, I feel the

setup

in of itself is scumsided, but with proper utilization of the mechanics it could become balanced, or even potentially favoring the town--and yet, relying on a self-evidently swingy mechanic which would only help the town if properly utilized felt like something I simply couldn't in good conscience use to call the

game

balanced.

So the game was probably balanced or close to, albeit highly swingy; the roles were undeniably favoring the scum.

Hope the players had fun with the game. Running blitzes are hard, even with help. But the punny name/theme was just too good to pass up on.

Id try hosting here but i fear it would go horrible considering im used to quicker games and alot of assistance from a module.

[EeveeLution Army]

Whats wim btw

"Want it more"

basically just like... a general feel of the game

if you are apathetic/lazy/bored thats generally "low WIM"

but being energetic and enthusiastic and hyped for the game is "high WIM"

I always love cs based themes. Cause they are the most fun to dissect. XD.

[Eragon]

ARGH i was right about Slaxx's confusion about the nightkill being scum-indicative

although thats a stupid argument and still feels stupid even though it was correct

[EeveeLution Army]

I like being scum cause i can be looser. As town im too nervous about scumhunting. xD

[mastina]

As someone who still struggles to keep a game theme cohesive, I have to say the mechanics and the roles around them were just excellent and well implemented.

I did try to be original as I could be. I wanted to run a bit of an inverse to succinct mafia, which promised one investigative and one protective and being otherwise mountainous (which was, also, publicly announced as being slightly scumsided a setup because cop-jk vs. encryptor as a semi-open is a little harsh on the town), thus the promise of no investigatives and no protectives.

Because I wanted the town to not have investigatives or protectives, I needed to get creative in giving the town actually

useful

roles that didn't violate those guidelines. I originally considered, for instance, the romantic being a masonizer of sorts, but felt that edged dangerously close to being an investigative. I wanted the town roles to work with the dance mechanic, because I felt like I needed to give the town some incentive to dance, and also, some punishments from NOT utilizing the mechanic (thus, the matchmaker and vig mechanics relying on it not being used).

I also originally had the klutz's "I'm too clumsy!" as a passive immunity to being dueled, no roleblock at all, but scratched the idea when I realized that it clashed with the Dueler's forced-duel mechanic, changing it to its current form. (Which, mind you, still produced an ugly potential interaction, but it was an ugly potential interaction that had an obvious solve which I worked out in advance; passive immunity would've been more awkward in my opinion.)

Inversely, a role I scrapped from the game was a town counterpart to said original-klutz, a role that would have passive immunity to being partnered up, scrapped for the same exact reason; it clashed with the Romantic, a role I considered more essential to the town.

I really did want to give the town more because I really didn't want the town to be at a disadvantage setup-wise, but there wasn't much more I could think of at the time that integrated well with the existing roles/mechanics, and I also didn't want to bounce the town from being underpowered to being overpowered.

My hope was actually in part that announcing the scumsidedness of the setup combined with it being a blitz game would attract Creaturesque players who seem to be of the opinion that longer deadlines hurt the town and that setups run in the Normal queue that are passed as balanced are way too townsided--my game being the antithesis of both, I was hoping to attract a crowd of players catering to the mindsets of that type, to give them a game totally opposite of my normal style. (Where I give 21-day deadlines, or even NO deadlines, and have games notoriously criticized as favoring the town.) With that specific crowd of players, I knew this game would be a roflstomp in favor of the town, but obviously I couldn't

rely

on those types of players signing up; I could only HOPE that they would.

[Eragon]

I like being scum cause i can be looser. As town im too nervous about scumhunting. xD

damn i feel exactly the opposite

[Eragon]

also im a huge fan of shorter deadlines, just because im used to it from homesite with 20+ player games that have 3/4 day deadlines(sometimes 5) and can get up to 100 pages Day 1

its often a lot, and i dont put the same "catch-up effort" in, but i follow my gut a lot more.

the way this just like... overall felt was really blegh to me(not setup or anything, just game-state) and i wasnt feeling into the game so my interest just kinda petered out.

[mastina]

Btw. Take a look at how post 1 is now compared to how it was here, so that you have some context for what I say:

And actually, the mafia might indeed not have a chat

End of Game Content[/u]:[/b][/size]

• Game Topics
  • Mod PT
    
    
  • Dead PT
    
    
  • Spoiled Dead PT
    
    
  • Etc.

it’s not listed in there, so either there is none, or the mod didn’t include it on purpose
(which I personally haven’t seen anone do yet, but again, I have veeeeery little experience with closed games, so idk)
lol it would be rather fun if the mafia didn't have a chat

I couldn't comment/clarify at the time, but that "Etc." appears in

every

single game of mine, REGARDLESS, while it is ongoing. My games will ALWAYS have a mod PT; my games will ALWAYS have a dead PT; my games will ALWAYS have a SPOILERED Dead PT, but beyond that, what my games have is entirely up in the air--that very same "Etc." appeared in every single game I've modded recently (barring Succinct Mafia which had a mechanical reason not to), from Lynch the Wolves to The Mod is Mafia to Night and Day to my last modded mini normals.

Each and every single one of them had pretty much the same identical formatting, albeit slowly improved/more or less standardized as time went on, and if you look at the mod PTs for those games, you'll see the "Etc." in each of them.

[Vedith]

Thanks Mastina \o/ was a fun game
And thanks to everyone in the game.
Well done you naughty Scum!

[EeveeLution Army]

I like being scum cause i can be looser. As town im too nervous about scumhunting. xD

damn i feel exactly the opposite

Partly cause as scum you can fakeclaim almost anything while as town you're stuck w/ whatever role you might have

[LabRat01]

Btw. Take a look at how post 1 is now compared to how it was here, so that you have some context for what I say:

And actually, the mafia might indeed not have a chat

End of Game Content[/u]:[/b][/size]

• Game Topics
  • Mod PT
    
    
  • Dead PT
    
    
  • Spoiled Dead PT
    
    
  • Etc.

it’s not listed in there, so either there is none, or the mod didn’t include it on purpose
(which I personally haven’t seen anone do yet, but again, I have veeeeery little experience with closed games, so idk)
lol it would be rather fun if the mafia didn't have a chat

I couldn't comment/clarify at the time, but that "Etc." appears in

every

single game of mine, REGARDLESS, while it is ongoing. My games will ALWAYS have a mod PT; my games will ALWAYS have a dead PT; my games will ALWAYS have a SPOILERED Dead PT, but beyond that, what my games have is entirely up in the air--that very same "Etc." appeared in every single game I've modded recently (barring Succinct Mafia which had a mechanical reason not to), from Lynch the Wolves to The Mod is Mafia to Night and Day to my last modded mini normals.

Each and every single one of them had pretty much the same identical formatting, albeit slowly improved/more or less standardized as time went on, and if you look at the mod PTs for those games, you'll see the "Etc." in each of them.

Whoa, so different :0
And tbh I looked for the last game you modded, but they looked a lot different, so I thought it's a new idea
Cool

The setup was really interesting and really well designed imo :)
It's such a shame the town didn't try to use the dance mechanics to get a double-lynch d4, it was such an obvious thing to do... xd
But gg
Mcqueen made a huge mistake by dancing with eragon as town
And slaxx played well xd
reading my post about trusting them with their reads must have been funny

[mcqueen]

Okay, thoughts time!

First off, I just want to say I'm sorry to the town. The loss I feel like squarely lands on my shoulders, and while I feel my logical strategy to utilize the mechanics is not entirely worthless, I did misuse and attempt to overuse it.

Sorry to McQ if I made you mad I just was doing my wincon

I'm not mad, I think you played well and did fool me throughout the game. However, when I first offered you to dance, admittedly I don't recall having a strong read on you. I banked on the fact that you just "were" town, and I let that thought process fool me repeatedly throughout the game. It's my fault for not being an active participant earlier on, and while I wasn't intentionally gamethrowing at any point, telling you to dance with me or I'll replace out is cutting it close. I'm sorry for that.

Certain suspicions I had about you, Slaxx:

• You said you were a roleblocker. I've never seen that role as town (solely roleblocker, not jailkeeper).
  
• Your flimsy scumread of DD. I was definitely swayed by their pressure on me, but there were points where I thought they were town and you went back to their scumminess on Day 1. I kind of forget why, because they pushed you for voting no lynch? Whatever the reason, I thought you overplayed it, and you did.
  
• You went absent for a long time Night 3 in our PT, after I told you I'd be there in light of my absence Night 2. You said you were busy, so I played it off, but something just felt off about it.

Otherwise, I messed up asking Eragon to dance in the final day. If any of you read my ability, I was planning to discuss with Eragon who I'd use it on, but notice after I offered a dance to Eragon, I wouldn't have been able to use it that day phase. However, there's a chance Slaxx keeps me alive Night 4 if it came to it? So maybe I'd have gotten lucky there. Anyhow, yeah that was not a good play by me.

I did still have fun, this game really picked my brain without being overly complicated. The mechanics are definitely a breath of fresh air as opposed to regular mafia, and I hope you'll mod something like this again, mastina.

[mastina]

I hope you'll mod something like this again, mastina.

Well, I can mod a game utilizing the dance mechanic, but if I ran it right now, it wouldn't be a Blitz. My next planned nodded game is an 18p large theme, multiball setup, the sequel to Lynch the Wolves called Lynch the Scum.

Since it's difficult to run JUST a blitz, and I expect Lynch the Scum to be time intensive, I can't run a Blitz game until that game finishes.

Also, I need time to be inspired.

[EeveeLution Army]

Okay, thoughts time!

First off, I just want to say I'm sorry to the town. The loss I feel like squarely lands on my shoulders, and while I feel my logical strategy to utilize the mechanics is not entirely worthless, I did misuse and attempt to overuse it.

Sorry to McQ if I made you mad I just was doing my wincon

I'm not mad, I think you played well and did fool me throughout the game. However, when I first offered you to dance, admittedly I don't recall having a strong read on you. I banked on the fact that you just "were" town, and I let that thought process fool me repeatedly throughout the game. It's my fault for not being an active participant earlier on, and while I wasn't intentionally gamethrowing at any point, telling you to dance with me or I'll replace out is cutting it close. I'm sorry for that.

Certain suspicions I had about you, Slaxx:

• You said you were a roleblocker. I've never seen that role as town (solely roleblocker, not jailkeeper).
  
• Your flimsy scumread of DD. I was definitely swayed by their pressure on me, but there were points where I thought they were town and you went back to their scumminess on Day 1. I kind of forget why, because they pushed you for voting no lynch? Whatever the reason, I thought you overplayed it, and you did.
  
• You went absent for a long time Night 3 in our PT, after I told you I'd be there in light of my absence Night 2. You said you were busy, so I played it off, but something just felt off about it.

Otherwise, I messed up asking Eragon to dance in the final day. If any of you read my ability, I was planning to discuss with Eragon who I'd use it on, but notice after I offered a dance to Eragon, I wouldn't have been able to use it that day phase. However, there's a chance Slaxx keeps me alive Night 4 if it came to it? So maybe I'd have gotten lucky there. Anyhow, yeah that was not a good play by me.

I did still have fun, this game really picked my brain without being overly complicated. The mechanics are definitely a breath of fresh air as opposed to regular mafia, and I hope you'll mod something like this again, mastina.

Town rber is a little common where i play. Unsure about here

[Eragon]

I see town roleblocker a lot too 0.0

[Slaxx]

Yeah.

I saw an opportunity to legitimize my fakeclaim by coming to bat for TGP.

I also totally got Pr-pinged my Moments cooperation and unvote then completely forgot about it.

[Slaxx]

Yeah I didn’t really have any strong fake reads.

Sometimes I really don’t have strong real ones though. I scoop up a few townreads, see who is really unlikely buddies, and start there.

My Evee lylo vote would probably come from town Slaxx who has just given up.

I also would have heavily scumread Aronis as town.

[Darkwing Duck]

I feel like I cannot comment on the setup because I feel like we didn't even play the setup. The only duel in the ballpark of town strategy was day 1 and then there were so many indifferent town that the uncc'd tpr got lynched. After that town just refused at every turn to do anything protown when it came to dance lynches. At least redtea was scum. The others.... smh

Sorry for that hostile vote post mcqueen but I was pretty frustrated with how this game played out. Anyway I don't think I'll out my main... I'd have to be a crazy diva to want to be associated with my play here.

Lgd

[mastina]

Also, I need time to be inspired.

Turns out, an hour later, I had enough to create a full setup! One which may be ever so slightly townsided, but oh well.

Point about not being able to run it while running Lynch the Scum remains, tho. Since that game'll probably take 1-3 months, and it'll take time for the sequel of this game to fill, expect Ballroom Blitz 2: Bugaloo to come in 2-4 months from now. <3

[LabRat01]

Also, I need time to be inspired. :P

Turns out, an hour later, I had enough to create a full setup! One which may be ever so slightly townsided, but oh well.

Point about not being able to run it while running Lynch the Scum remains, tho. Since that game'll probably take 1-3 months, and it'll take time for the sequel of this game to fill, expect Ballroom Blitz 2: Bugaloo to come in 2-4 months from now. <3

:DDD

[MariaR]