Mini Normal 2081 — My First Game! [Game Over]

[chennisden]

power play

power play

[chennisden]

meh in like

a week

i will barely post due to irl shenanigans

[chennisden]

so i want to establish a presence early.

[Exilon]

It seems that you're saying you want to reread the game in order to sheep someone or sheep the average, which is pretty bad for what I hope are obvious reasons.

It is not what I said.

I said my reads feel like skews and theyre too far from others to be 100% accurate.

the difference between disagreement with the rest of the playerlist and being completely out of touch with the game is a big gap.



I dont know why this is hard to see? We've all played with a player who omgused everything who said a negative thing about them, and we've all played with tunnelers. We all have likely been the ones to be completely out of touch before, and have probably been ignored at one point or another as a result?

Being able to step back and say 'I want to take a few and come back and relook at the content' isnt saying 'i want to sheep someone' at all. Its possessing the self-awareness to look around.

atlhough this is a very obvious interpretation for any person with a trusting brain, please understand that given your contributions thus far, I quite literally couldn't give myself the luxury of taking that for granted, and had to clarify.
The way you worded it here is completely different from the way you worded it then.

[Exilon]

if by definition you think what Menalque did is townish, it doesn't make any sense to find him scummy earlier for it. You're either faking what you think about Menalque or intently shading me to justify a push.

If each read is independent and each player has motivations that Im reading in the context they occur I dont see how I cant push both players at different times?

Maybe Im just me.

This is an important point for me that I wanna touch bases on

Your answer doesn't really answer my point then which was about your reasons for finding Menalque scummy.

What had happened is that earlier he did something you called as being scummy, but later what you wrote implied that his actions then were townish and you thought acting like that was townish.
So my question was, "if you think doing x is townish, and later you saw him doing x, how could you say it was scummy?"

[Cinnamon]

I do however want to point out that your strategy is poorly executed and may well lead you to getting lynched as town due to no one's fault but your own.
The simple fact you admit that you sometimes make up reasons to push people puts you further in a position to get lynched.

I understand maybe that's not what you literally meant. It doesn't change the fact you said it.

I'm signing off for the night after this, but I have a few things to say. First off, this from Exilon really seems like he's not trying to sort my slot. He cares more about what I said than what I actually meant by it? At the very least, it's what's causing this disconnect between us and at most this is scum who's just looking for holes in my posts because I'm frustrated.

Secondly, chennis if you have meta on LUV I'd love to see a previous game or something. I don't like this lynchpool, but again I haven't liked most of the town consensus stuff so far. There's lynches I prefer here but if there's a case on LUV that he wouldn't act like this here I wouldn't mind putting my vote there.

Cinnamon, could you post your three or four ideal lynches? Ordered as best you can, please.

Sure, my ideal lynch order would be something like skitter/pisskop/chennis/LUV/Exilon. I've been very back and forth on Exilon but right now I think he's townyish? In the event skitter flipped scum I would townread chennis/Exilon more for reasons I've previously described.

[Cinnamon]

I do however want to point out that your strategy is poorly executed and may well lead you to getting lynched as town due to no one's fault but your own.
The simple fact you admit that you sometimes make up reasons to push people puts you further in a position to get lynched.

I understand maybe that's not what you literally meant. It doesn't change the fact you said it.

I'm signing off for the night after this, but I have a few things to say. First off, this from Exilon really seems like he's not trying to sort my slot. He cares more about what I said than what I actually meant by it? At the very least, it's what's causing this disconnect between us and at most this is scum who's just looking for holes in my posts because I'm frustrated.

Secondly, chennis if you have meta on LUV I'd love to see a previous game or something. I don't like this lynchpool, but again I haven't liked most of the town consensus stuff so far. There's lynches I prefer here but if there's a case on LUV that he wouldn't act like this here I wouldn't mind putting my vote there.

You keep saying your thoughts aren't reaching me or that I'm not trying to sort your slot but I have a feeling that's because you feel it isn't working as you wanted rather than the actual truth. You have repeated several times already and I'm sure people got that point across already. In fact, that's the whole basis for me going "i don't think you can convince me here, if someone can help me get a different take that'd be stellar".

I really don't know why you feel the need to keep repeating that same thought, to different quotes and different times, and we also don't know if it means anything behind "we're on different wavelengths". Am I more scummy for it? Am I not? Does it change your readslist in any way?

Because I feel like I'm flip flopping between you purposefully not understanding me to you gamesolving and just getting an impression from my posts that I wasn't trying to get across. It does change my readslist a lot whether you're seriously trying to figure me out here, as you can see from my most recent desired lynch order.

[Cinnamon]

As a semi out of gameish aside - I did try to post in this game more by just letting my thoughts flow as I got comments from my Newbie that it might make me towntell harder than editing my posts a bit. I didn't realize why my game here was so much worse but that's probably a big reason my game looks so confusing to some people.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Let's get to business.

Menalque,

can you outline your scumcase and progression for

Lil Uzi Vert

? Quoting some of your older posts would help.

Lil Uzi Vert,

can you tell me why you doubt the

pisskop

claim? If anyone were to counterclaim him in any capacity, I would doubt it too; but is there any reason he is scum without the counterclaim? Is there a good reason to kill him D1? I understand that the

doctor

is not actually an investigative and that putting us to MyLo with a protect isn't helpful anyways, so it's not too important a PR.

Mainly when and how he claimed. The first thing I do when I look at a role claim, especially one that’s made under duress, is evaluate. I evaluate to see whether it’s more likely to come from town or scum. What I mean by that is, the best fake claim is the one with as many grains of truth in it as possible. PK’s claim has exactly that potential, and does nothing to make me less likely to want to lynch him.

The argument that he claimed under duress doesn’t hold much water for me. I think those that were on his wagon at the time, (Cinnamon and Exilon) approached and interacted with him sensibly and in good faith. And, those that didn’t, such as Dan, were already voting Skygazer. The only person that I feel could fit the bill, would be Mena, as he kind of lazily agreed with the suspicions others had of PK in 318 and the pocketing reason given is really bad.

Take a look at Cinnamon’s interactions with PK before the claim. 291, 294, and 303. I don’t think that’s wrongful pressure being bought upon him in any of those posts. The first post is fair because Cinnamon has direct experience with Mena as opposed to PK. Cinnamon then accuses PK of calling the kettle black in the next post due to the first read list he had posted. Now I can see why PK reacted the way he did shortly after but if you look at that reads list again, you’ll see that there are a few null reads along with the lack of stances that Cinnamon takes issue with so I don’t see anything wrongful about the accusation.

The only thing that could be considered from his point of view threatening is the detailed case that Exilon gave in 335 and 336, just before putting him to L-1. But, I don’t see anything that’s not valid there other than saying PK admitted to making noise.

Now as for how he claimed, I expect a lot more anger and vigor in his tone if he was truly frustrated and done with the game. I’d even argue he replaces out there if he’s that demotivated. We have a claim that comes off to me as scum who are sort of laughing at how they got caught. There are times where you rolled scum and you just have to laugh at how you were caught because you thought you were playing well or you thought there’s no way you would be close to getting lynched amongst the table. I think it’s different than being caught for the wrong reasons but I can’t really articulate it well.

Now the timing of his claim is faie on the surface when you consider he’s was at L-1, but consider that intent wasn’t given and that whoever were to hammer without giving intent or a claim would be met with heavy scrutiny.

Also consider that doctors specifically don’t really have a reason to claim. Like, investigative roles have results to out, fruit vendors have targets who can confirm them, jail keepers and role keepers can claim who they blocked. A doctor outing doesn't give the town any incremental information, and just gets the power role shot.

So in conclusion, I think he’s just scum who’s ran with the claim due to the rest of the town being hesitant on lynching him. He’s pushing either nothing regards to Exilon or pushing things that aren’t alignment indicative in regards to me and not showing why those things are more likely to come from scum.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I don’t think you’re doing much sorting at all here. Just stating what you want to believe is true.

It's hard to do when any attempt at sorting and putting on pressure is met with hostility.

Are you aware my vote is the type intended to sort (1), rather than the type intended to lynch /(2)?

It’s met with hostility because you’re making stuff up about my meta and then stating information about my activity and my post count without any analysis. If you wanted 1251 to happen sooner, you should’ve just said so.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

interesting gamma is on the pisskop wagon.

I don’t know whether Gamma is choosing to actively ignore this game or just forgot he replaced in. Just saw he asked if PK claimed and I would say scum would be more on top of that sort of thing but it’s clear he hasn’t read based on the way he asked in my opinion.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

On to other shores:

On a skim LUV really doesn't strike me as scummy here?
Menalque case isn't very strong. There's better lynch candidates.
If we want to lynch a lurker slot, there's one better candidate too.

Like the points he's been making are ok from my point of view, and he seems to be a guy that doesn't write walls of text like yours truly.
I'll reread with more attention.

I could post walls like I just did but I don’t think they’re better than short and concise posts. They’re also really annoying to format but I’d be damn if I wasted time on a post for people to not read or understand any of it all.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

i want gamma to play

We all do. We desperately need a pair of fresh eyes.

His claim doesn’t read frustrated to me though.

'frustrated' is the wrong term.

irritated sure
survivalistic yes
sure in its stength, of course

but frustrated? No.

You got one of those right.

[pisskop]

uzi is going get lynched if he is town.

day 3 or 4

[chennisden]

Let's get to business.

Menalque,

can you outline your scumcase and progression for

Lil Uzi Vert

? Quoting some of your older posts would help.

Lil Uzi Vert,

can you tell me why you doubt the

pisskop

claim? If anyone were to counterclaim him in any capacity, I would doubt it too; but is there any reason he is scum without the counterclaim? Is there a good reason to kill him D1? I understand that the

doctor

is not actually an investigative and that putting us to MyLo with a protect isn't helpful anyways, so it's not too important a PR.

Mainly when and how he claimed. The first thing I do when I look at a role claim, especially one that’s made under duress, is evaluate. I evaluate to see whether it’s more likely to come from town or scum. What I mean by that is, the best fake claim is the one with as many grains of truth in it as possible.

PK’s claim has exactly that potential, and does nothing to make me less likely to want to lynch him.

The argument that he claimed under duress doesn’t hold much water for me. I think those that were on his wagon at the time, (Cinnamon and Exilon) approached and interacted with him sensibly and in good faith.

And, those that didn’t, such as Dan, were already voting Skygazer. The only person that I feel could fit the bill, would be Mena, as he kind of lazily agreed with the suspicions others had of PK in 318

and the pocketing reason given is really bad.

Take a look at Cinnamon’s interactions with PK before the claim. 291, 294, and 303. I don’t think that’s wrongful pressure being bought upon him in any of those posts. The first post is fair because Cinnamon has direct experience with Mena as opposed to PK. Cinnamon then accuses PK of calling the kettle black in the next post due to the first read list he had posted. Now I can see why PK reacted the way he did shortly after but if you look at that reads list again, you’ll see that there are a few null reads along with the lack of stances that Cinnamon takes issue with so I don’t see anything wrongful about the accusation.

The only thing that could be considered from his point of view threatening is the detailed case that Exilon gave in 335 and 336, just before putting him to L-1. But, I don’t see anything that’s not valid there other than saying PK admitted to making noise.

Now as for how he claimed, I expect a lot more anger and vigor in his tone if he was truly frustrated and done with the game. I’d even argue he replaces out there if he’s that demotivated. We have a claim that comes off to me as scum who are sort of laughing at how they got caught. There are times where you rolled scum and you just have to laugh at how you were caught because you thought you were playing well or you thought there’s no way you would be close to getting lynched amongst the table. I think it’s different than being caught for the wrong reasons but I can’t really articulate it well.

Now the timing of his claim is faie on the surface when you consider he’s was at L-1, but consider that intent wasn’t given and that whoever were to hammer without giving intent or a claim would be met with heavy scrutiny.

Also consider that doctors specifically don’t really have a reason to claim. Like, investigative roles have results to out, fruit vendors have targets who can confirm them, jail keepers and role keepers can claim who they blocked. A doctor outing doesn't give the town any incremental information, and just gets the power role shot.

So in conclusion, I think he’s just scum who’s ran with the claim due to the rest of the town being hesitant on lynching him.

He’s pushing either nothing regards to Exilon or pushing things that aren’t alignment indicative in regards to me and not showing why those things are more likely to come from scum.

I agree on this point; his claim is absolutely disgusting.

Pisskop

might have felt that it would've swung around to him anyway and not claiming would be wasting time. Can you verify/deny this, pisskop?

Part of the reason I initially pushed him. I agree Menalque's case on pisskop leaves a lot desired, and so does his scumread on you.

Cinnamon's interactions with pisskop feel the most townie out of any interactions Cinnamon has had early game.

His early game play feels extremely defeatist and not game solving at all, that is true. But hasn't his late game play been more genuine, especially if we consider he hadn't caught up yet?

Largely why it might be a good idea to keep him alive for another day. If he dies, then that matter is resolved. If he lives, the we know 1) either his reads are off and scum still think they can lynch him or 2) he's scum, in which case the course of action is similar.

Completely agree in regards to Exilon; will have to look at his case on you.

This post is really town-motivated and genuine. It's not surface level and it shows LUV hasn't been making shit up; the views expressed either have been held for a long time or have a sensible progerssion. Frankly, I don't think this is inside LUV's scumrange.

[chennisden]

I do however want to point out that your strategy is poorly executed and may well lead you to getting lynched as town due to no one's fault but your own.
The simple fact you admit that you sometimes make up reasons to push people puts you further in a position to get lynched.

I understand maybe that's not what you literally meant. It doesn't change the fact you said it.

I'm signing off for the night after this, but I have a few things to say. First off, this from Exilon really seems like he's not trying to sort my slot. He cares more about what I said than what I actually meant by it? At the very least, it's what's causing this disconnect between us and at most this is scum who's just looking for holes in my posts because I'm frustrated.

Secondly, chennis if you have meta on LUV I'd love to see a previous game or something. I don't like this lynchpool, but again I haven't liked most of the town consensus stuff so far. There's lynches I prefer here but if there's a case on LUV that he wouldn't act like this here I wouldn't mind putting my vote there.

Cinnamon, could you post your three or four ideal lynches? Ordered as best you can, please.

Sure, my ideal lynch order would be something like skitter/pisskop/chennis/LUV/Exilon. I've been very back and forth on Exilon but right now I think he's townyish? In the event skitter flipped scum I would townread chennis/Exilon more for reasons I've previously described.

my thoughts on your lynchpool:

this resolves itself later/maybe/in your dreams/im not feeling it/absolutely never

the skitter and pisskop reads aren't bad. though my reasons for doubting skitter may be different from yours

i townread exilon to the point where if i was in 3 way with him, i'd auto vote the other person

[chennisden]

uzi is going get lynched if he is town.

day 3 or 4

dont disagree

[Exilon]

I'm townreading uzi for those two posts

[chennisden]

arent we all

[chennisden]

LUV is definitely townie and seeing as Menalque still hasn't responded to my request to case him, I've got a feeling the simple answer is right: LUV is town.

[skitter30]

how are there 12 pages ...

[skitter30]

Right, Ill be around asp to read.

You guys wouldnt be dumb enough to lynch a doc . . . would you?

i mean the fact that your'e relying on this to not get lynched is slightly gross so

[pisskop]

so vote me.

[skitter30]

of skitter

ambivalent

well then

[skitter30]

catching up first, but i might, yeah