Mini 706 - Prozacmod 2 -Door Mafia - Over


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Post Post #1325 (ISO) » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:23 pm

Post by strife220 »

Kmd4390 wrote:Strongly leaning Strife/armlx scum team.
Actually think about how much sense this makes please.

Ythill wrote:Strife suspects ?
Ythill + Armlx. I'm considering Shated confirmed town. Though I'm not going to vote until I make sure that KMD's doc-claim would not have come from scum.


Ythill wrote:@strife: Earlier I asked why you were being less argumentative in this game and you said something about having less time. However, I'm not sure the excuse addresses your lack of concrete suspicions. When I played with town-you before, you were very dynamic with your suspicions, right or wrong. Now you seem more interested in clearing yourself than finding scum. Why?
It requires me to do re-reads to come up with strong opinions. It doesn't take me time to defend. In last game we played I was in 3 or 4 games at once making massive posts and doing massive rereads in all 3 - regardless of alignment, if you really want to consider meta.
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Post Post #1326 (ISO) » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:26 pm

Post by Ythill »

The future does not look bright for armlx.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1327 (ISO) » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 pm

Post by armlx »

I mean, at this point its more or less PoE and I can't really argue except to offer alternate hypotheses. I don't really see the strife + Shaft pair, Kmd + Ythill seems viable as Ythill's protection is a stretch IMHO, Strife + KMD is also possible if they feared Ythill would question a guilty.
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Post Post #1328 (ISO) » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:12 pm

Post by armlx »

EBWODP: That means lynching preference is KMD or Ythill.
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Post Post #1329 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:20 am

Post by Ythill »

I've been doing a little bit of rereading, going over the NKs. They all make perfect sense except N2.

Spyrex was suspected by a fair amount of people. He was explicitly in the miller room that night, so there was little chance of him having a power-role. His suspicions were all over the place, though mostly focused on hunting lurkers that were later revealed to be town, and he'd already been a scum-tool on two townie wagons. Spyrex was not targeted by two docs or the bus driver N2, so we can rule out items messing with the kill.

The scum must have selected him for the kill. Many of the obvious reasons are ruled out, above. It couldn't have been because he strongly suspected someone, for two reasons: his top three suspects at the time of his death were town, and he didn't have enough credibility to be seen as a threat. I can only see a handful of reasons why he would have been killed.

(1) Sour grapes. Shaft and strife are scum (or just strife). They tried hard to lynch Spy on D2 but nobody was biting and the day ended with a town willing to lynch any lurker over Spy. Scum may have seen this as an indication that Spy would never be lynched. Thing is, killing Spy was a serious disadvantage to the scum and I don't see the sour grapes theory as being enough of a trade-off, so I doubt this one is the case.

(2) WIFOM #1. The scum wanted to reveal Spy's alignment as town in order to discredit strife/shaft or give credibility to me. This suggests that I am scum, which sucks because I'm not. I doubt the motive was to frame me, since nobody has tried to use it for that. I doubt that discrediting shaft was the motive, since my false guilty was a perfect opportunity for a witch-hunt and none came. Framing strife only works as a motive if you believe I'm scum, because nobody else has pushed him extensively since then.

(3) WIFOM #2. At least one scum can be found in the following: Kmd, strife, and shaft. Spyrex had attacked these three extesively on D1 and/or D2 but had come around to at least leaning town on all three. He was killed as punctuation... get rid of him before he comes back to his senses.

In conclusion, this reread has me a little more open to the possibility of a Kmd-armlx scumteam. Enough that, combined with shaft's argument about wolf not seeing Darox's claim, I'm willing to drop Kmd out of the confirmed townie slot I had him in, even though I'm still leaning town on him. The dynamics of reason #2 above also make a strife-shaft team (ans therefore #1) seem less likely because, why would they swallow a serious disadvantage
and
discredit
themselves
?

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Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1330 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:09 am

Post by shaft.ed »

You forgot my favorite theory. Scum weren't paying any freaking attention.

They saw SpyreX getting town cred at the end of the day, expected the confirmed townie to be protected (indicates possible prior knowledge of the Doc/Busdriver role) and picked a player that was being viewed as town by a decent number of people and had been actively attacked by a decent number of townies (myself and JDodge if I remember correctly). I don't know if the miller room is important here because SpyreX could have changed his room in the interim.
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Post Post #1331 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:27 am

Post by Ythill »

shaft wrote:(indicates possible prior knowledge of the Doc/Busdriver role)
Everyone knew about the bus driver at that point.
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Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1332 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:31 am

Post by shaft.ed »

Ythill wrote:
shaft wrote:(indicates possible prior knowledge of the Doc/Busdriver role)
Everyone knew about the bus driver at that point.
Ah yes. I'm pretty shaky on the early game.
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Post Post #1333 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:48 am

Post by shaft.ed »

OK I don't see my opinion changing.

vote: armlx
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Post Post #1334 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:51 pm

Post by strife220 »

Not really comfortable with a vote out like that in lylo - mind removing that vote until the weekend when I actually get to do some reading shaft?
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Post Post #1335 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 4:16 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

strife220 wrote:Not really comfortable with a vote out like that in lylo - mind removing that vote until the weekend when I actually get to do some reading shaft?
No I don't. I just didn't feel as if you (or others) were motivated to put any more analysis in.

unvote
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Post Post #1336 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:10 pm

Post by strife220 »

shaft.ed wrote:
strife220 wrote:Not really comfortable with a vote out like that in lylo - mind removing that vote until the weekend when I actually get to do some reading shaft?
No I don't. I just didn't feel as if you (or others) were motivated to put any more analysis in.
I'm gonna do some KMD/KMD's predecessor reading to see which is least likely - ythill/kmd or armlx/kmd. Probably sat. morning
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Post Post #1337 (ISO) » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:22 pm

Post by Ythill »

shaft wrote:No I don't. I just didn't feel as if you (or others) were motivated to put any more analysis in.
I'll do whatever analysis I have time for while Kmd catches up, but my time is going to be limited. We're moving out of this house in 13 days and the to-do list is overhwhelming.
Record:
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Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1338 (ISO) » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:05 pm

Post by strife220 »

Did we ever figure out the whole JDodge issue of him saying 'my doctor item had more to it than expected' or whatever? Given the rule that odd numbered rooms are more risky, it seems quite reasonable that one room is a doc room and the other is... something else that could explain Darox's death?
JD seemed to think that his protecting Farside N1 caused Afac's gun to backfire on him.



Farside was, as a whole, quite scummy

Crywolf had one content post:
crywolf20084 wrote:Frist off, Hello Ythill :D nice to play another game with you, and I know what you can do as scum so I wouldn’t put it past you, but like always you strike me as the most town.

RAWR I hate the PR room. Looking back on strife he too strikes me more to towards the town side of neutral, and I’d love some play time with him when he’s NOT drunk.

Shaft.ed is too pushy IMO, sorry I couldn’t get to the game sooner… I just couldn’t.

Armlx, I’ve played a game with in the past and I don’t remember him posting so infrequently, but I dunno, i could be recollecting wrong. It is after all 2 AM for me.
(quoting only content about living players)

The crywolf speaking of Ythill part seems more scum-pair than crywolf speaking of Armlx



Here's where crywolf supposedly clears herself
crywolf20084 wrote:
Ythill wrote:
wolf wrote:*Gets down on her knees...
Wow, that's mighty pro-town of you.
...and bows down to you guys*
Oh sorry, I thought... you know, because we caught scum and all... um... nevermind.
:oops:
HAH i wouldn't give in THAT easy, even if I was scum. (And I refuse to go to where you're mind was going....)

At a quick read, I will
Vote: Shafted
, and what I’m kinda finding odd is I too had a stethoscope in my room last night, in which I found in my bag. I didn’t N1 so…I dunno. I agree with this lynch.
She sounds a little... confused. "had a stethescope in my bag last night, but not n1." Of course, she chimes this in less than 90 minutes before deadline, and still through a vote on Shafted. So she certainly didn't risk 'saving' Shafted or JDodge with her vote. But... confusing



KMD - Why did you choose room 4 last night when you knew where a doc room was?
Ythill - Did you get room 9 - a doc room - by chance last night? Or did you pick it after rooms were claimed?
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Post Post #1339 (ISO) » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:07 pm

Post by strife220 »

p.s. - I think I'd choose a Ythill lynch over an Armlx lynch.
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Post Post #1340 (ISO) » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:11 pm

Post by shaft.ed »

FWIW, I got bandages with my Doc kit last night.
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Post Post #1341 (ISO) » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:30 pm

Post by Ythill »

strife wrote:Ythill - Did you get room 9 - a doc room - by chance last night? Or did you pick it after rooms were claimed?
It was by design.
strife wrote:p.s. - I think I'd choose a Ythill lynch over an Armlx lynch.
Of course you would. You wouldn't actually want to bus your buddy, just list him as your second suspect in case we hang him today. It's interesting to me because, considering this post...
I'm gonna do some KMD/KMD's predecessor reading to see which is least likely - ythill/kmd or armlx/kmd. Probably sat. morning
...it seems like you should be most interested in a Kmd lynch. Keeping your options open, huh?
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1342 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 am

Post by strife220 »

Ythill wrote:
I'm gonna do some KMD/KMD's predecessor reading to see which is least likely - ythill/kmd or armlx/kmd. Probably sat. morning
...it seems like you should be most interested in a Kmd lynch. Keeping your options open, huh?
What? I think Armlx + KMD is the least likely team. And I think Shaft is town. How is that 'keeping my options open?'
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Post Post #1343 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:00 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

strife220 wrote: Crywolf had one content post:
Exactly what she was mislynched for in Medieval Mafia. Large theme. Want the link?
strife220 wrote: KMD - Why did you choose room 4 last night when you knew where a doc room was?
I was told when I replaced in that I was vanilla for the night. Must have been Cay's choice..
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Post Post #1344 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:03 am

Post by Kmd4390 »

Here's Medieval. Cay's only real post in that game was a case on Stark. She was mislynched Day 1.
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Post Post #1345 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:26 am

Post by Ythill »

strife wrote:What? I think Armlx + KMD is the least likely team. And I think Shaft is town. How is that 'keeping my options open?'
In #1325 (on the evening of tax day) you say your suspects are "Ythill + Armlx." Then, in #1336, the very next evening, with no new information, you say, "I'm gonna do some KMD/KMD's predecessor reading to see which is least likely - ythill/kmd or armlx/kmd." This implies that you believe either myself or amlx is scum, not both, and that Kmd is your primary suspect. In #1338, you confirm that you think Kmd is scummy. Yet, in #1339, you boil it all down to prefering my lynch first.

Your evidence of the relationship between myself and Kmd is entirely circumstantial. The reason wolf was so cordial to me in her content post was that she was in two of my last four games. Did you forget that my prime suspect when I replaced in was Farside? Did you forget that she gave me a post restriction because she was annoyed with me for attacking her? These belie your cordial=buddy non-evidence. And you have yet to cite any reason why
I
am scum.

This latest maneuver -suspecting then clearing armlx while buddying to shaft and keeping your options open on the rest of us- has confirmed my suspicions. I'm ready to end the day when the rest of you are. And I no longer see a reason to be stubborn about hanging strife first.

Kmd, let me know when you're ready to vote. Shaft, apparently, already is.
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1346 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:33 am

Post by strife220 »

Ythill wrote:
strife wrote:What? I think Armlx + KMD is the least likely team. And I think Shaft is town. How is that 'keeping my options open?'
In #1325 (on the evening of tax day) you say your suspects are "Ythill + Armlx." Then, in #1336, the very next evening, with no new information, you say, "I'm gonna do some KMD/KMD's predecessor reading to see which is least likely - ythill/kmd or armlx/kmd." This implies that you believe either myself or amlx is scum, not both, and that Kmd is your primary suspect.
"Shaft is town. I think Ythill and Armlx are the most likely scum-pair. In case I'm wrong, and KMD is scum - who would be his most likely partner? Probably Ythill. Therefore, Ythill is the better lynch today." Follow?
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Post Post #1347 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:37 am

Post by strife220 »

P.S. - I did forget about your attack on Farside early game. More reading...
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Post Post #1348 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:26 am

Post by Ythill »

strife wrote:"Shaft is town. I think Ythill and Armlx are the most likely scum-pair. In case I'm wrong, and KMD is scum - who would be his most likely partner? Probably Ythill. Therefore, Ythill is the better lynch today." Follow?
I guess I wasn't looking at it from that angle. How do you fit your
farside was quite scummy
post (#1338) into this view?
Record:
Town 10W/15L
Scum 4W/1L
Other 2W/2L
Newbie 1L


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Post Post #1349 (ISO) » Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:41 pm

Post by strife220 »

Ythill wrote:
strife wrote:"Shaft is town. I think Ythill and Armlx are the most likely scum-pair. In case I'm wrong, and KMD is scum - who would be his most likely partner? Probably Ythill. Therefore, Ythill is the better lynch today." Follow?
I guess I wasn't looking at it from that angle. How do you fit your
farside was quite scummy
post (#1338) into this view?
It was a consequence of me re-reading Far/Crazy/KMD looking for when they pseudo-cleared themselves by claiming doc (ctrl +f 'doc' didn't help at all). In particular, her giving away post restrictions jumped out to me as scummy. No, her giving you a PR doesn't make you less likely to be partners - as you've mentioned, PRs are not particularly bad for scum.
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