Nacho, late D2 basically everyone was around and we were able to move the wagon around a few times.
I'll grant that Benmage is sublucid and maybe even scum, but I still don't believe in the notion that we collectively have spent almost all our time driving wagons on different towns with an army of strong town players all with town role PMs.
Funny you, because if you're not scum there's even less room for CES to not be scum.
↑Llamarble wrote:You're a funny one to say that. Pose to me how we get to our current situation without CES being scum.
You mean to tell me a town containing Vi, CES, Tierce, me, and various other good players mislynched twice against a scumteam of Benmage, OGML, and DV? I don't think so.
I know my alignment, I don't know his, I'll at least ACCEPT that lynch because there's a chance he's not town.
my reads are public, try to use them later I guess?
whatever
Before my hammer.
Also you dont seem to mention that it was what?? 12 hours to a deadline if I recall... we were gonna change wagons???? ZZZZ
↑OhGodMyLife wrote:How much more refuge in audacity does Benmage have to take before people get their heads out of their asses?
Tunnel blinds.. pretend for one second you aren't as bad as you appear to be.
News flash, if I don't flip scum, then what??!? BAM mindfucked dumbasss scub. (Remind me in the next invitational to take OGML off... fucking scrubs in this game, disgusting..) Go fluff another 50+ pages with less than 20 posts, you are USELESSSSSS
Your play is pretty feeble too Benmage.
We'll get to which of you two dies later.
You can help it be not yourself by voting CES.
Exactly... feeble Benmage = ???
Why did I remove Llamarable from scumlist?
His pigheaded-ness is EXACTLY like that from WF... I get it, he has to have me for a mislynch. It just has zero chance of success.
And yes, I only really played D1 of this game. But let's look at mafia 151. I coasted until the end of D3, and all we did was mislynch. The Dragon awoke, and I went on to lead to to so much success that I was NK'd over 2 confirmed cop innocents going into mylo. Boom goes the dynamite!
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:08 pm
by Benmage
It's funny that Naho is voting Llamarable... Foreshadowing fakedistancing, you heard it here first!
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:45 pm
by DeasVail
Vote: Nachomamma8
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:24 am
by Shadoweh
prod dodge, will post later today after work.
I really don't think Llamarble is being pigheaded here.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:46 am
by Empire
↑Llamarble wrote:Also for all the town-assuming we're doing for Tammy/Empire/Tierce, I would like to see a lot more out of them.
Empire's effort level is decidedly medium and contains a lot of 'look at me reading all this meta about people' and basically zero "I have found a convincing scumbag guys let's lynch them for the following decent reasons."
Tierce
Benmage
DV
Tammy
Nacho
3 of the 5 people on Empire's NEVER LYNCH EVER list have solid chances of being scum. Good Jorb.
And come on. What is 990.
I'll take Tierce and Tammy and deadVi's word for it, but yeah.
Oh my god, I swear it's like people aren't actually reading my posts. I've explained over and over and over again that I've been incredibly busy the past couple of weeks and that my posting rate won't be as high as it's been in other games (despite this, I'm
still
among the most prolific posters in the thread). And I think it's fucking great and fantastic that you're so confident and you think you've got this game solved but guess what? Not all of us actually feel this way. I've explained a million times that I have no convincing scumreads to push and if you've bothered to look at any of my past games, I put a lot of weight into meta and that it's a large part of how I read people.
And thanks for chiding for something I posted many, many pages ago. If you've actually, you know, read anything I've posted since then, you'd have learned that my reads on DV and Benmage have both wavered (though I do still think they're town). I've rejected the Nacho read because it was based on that big wallpost which I didn't think would come from him as scum -- DV referenced Always On, where he did something very similar as scum so that made me scrap the read. My only two non-negotiables right now are Tierce and Tammy. Fucking tired of having to read posts like this.
Anyway, CES stuff coming up right now after I go over his ISO.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:11 am
by Llamarble
Sometimes people need to be chided / annoyed.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:08 pm
by Empire
Ok so I got distracted but I did manage to comb over and think about CES's posts and I'm still pretty conflicted (shocker) but he does seem like a possible PoE-scum candidate. Trying to look for affirmatively scummy stuff from him though seems pretty impossible and that just reminds me of what past-Llamarble was saying about it being really hard to "case-make" about CES.
Going over his ISO, there are some posts that do come across as nothing but empty posturing -- I don't really see the point to stuff like #275, #548, #736-#737, #794 and overall it just gives the impression that he hasn't been genuinely scumhunting but just pushing a set of three mislynches the entire game. His reasoning for FoSing Nacho in #835 is ridiculous given that I really don't see any reason for being wrong about the scumteam being any sort of scumtell. Then there's the whole argument against Vi and I'm increasingly getting to the point where I'm not sure I buy him trying to lead off with the arguments he had for rhetorical effect (#870) being genuine.
At the same time, though, there are some things I still like. The putting Llamarble at L-1 and the line of questioning that accompanies it does seem like he's genuinely trying to get a read on him especially given #259. And there's the bit in #896 about not wanting to look hypocritical as scum that does ring true given that I think he does put a bit more image-conscious care into his posts as scum.
Meh, I'm going out but I'll be back tonight to look over this stuff again and also get to Benmage's ISO. I might also look into CES's meta but every time I've done this I never get anything out of it so bleh.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:11 pm
by Empire
Now that I think about it...
Town: Zach (confirmed town via role result), Tierce, Tammy, [gap], DV, Benmage, Llamarble, OGML (maybe)
That leaves {CES, Nacho, Shadoweh}
I'm not sure the game is this easy though.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:27 pm
by Cogito Ergo Sum
Yeah, those posts are basically pointless (except #737). If I have a dream that's relevant to a mafia game, it seems remiss not to mention it, really. You misunderstood #835; I was just giving both my Top 3 and my pick for scum team.
↑Llamarble wrote:I think that if the scumteam does not contain CES, and we're not wrong about TET, any scumteam composed of the remaining options should be in tatters by now.
CES is good at town, and so are lots of others. We haven't lived up to our expected collective proficiency, which I find much more likely if one of our highest-potential-usefulness players is scum.
Again, generalities. I've definitely played worse than this regardless (ADwD being the obvious example.)
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:31 pm
by Nachomamma8
↑Llamarble wrote:Nacho, late D2 basically everyone was around and we were able to move the wagon around a few times.
I'll grant that Benmage is sublucid and maybe even scum, but I still don't believe in the notion that we collectively have spent almost all our time driving wagons on different towns with an army of strong town players all with town role PMs.
Funny you, because if you're not scum there's even less room for CES to not be scum.
this is stupid.
↑Benmage wrote:Also you dont seem to mention that it was what?? 12 hours to a deadline if I recall... we were gonna change wagons???? ZZZZ
that's the point.
V/LA for a couple of days.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:57 pm
by Llamarble
My post was entirely reasonable. Everyone posted in the last couple days of D2; there were votes enough to move where we wanted (and we did move a lot).
The primary sources of total nonsense in this game have been you and Benmage.
CES:
Generalities are like, how humans process the world or something. If you want to fight a general argument, specify why it doesn't apply here.
You not being a force for town increases the odds you are scum. Town collectively not having success yet increases the odds that not all of our best players are town.
Limited access this weekend.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:25 pm
by Cogito Ergo Sum
Contemplating generalities is a decent starting point but you have to connect it to the thread at some point. If you look at the mislynches, penguin_alien getting lynched over N certainly wasn't my doing and I wasn't here for the UTmislynch (that example might be a little unfair since Konowa softclaimed to me but eh); looks to me like we definitely could've lynched scum at either deadline and I had nothing to do with it not happening on either Day.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:28 pm
by Tierce
>.>
<.<
Well, at least the other game is over now. Empire, any new thoughts on CES from it?
Will DEFINITELY try posting tonight, as I've done most of my share of organizing life stuff and the other half won't be around so no distractions other than those I make for myself.
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:39 pm
by Shadoweh
What other game are you referring to?
Empire: Rereading I'm pretty sure CTD and Nacho arguing about CTD's terrible everything wasn't scum on scum and it reaffirms how I feel about his case on N, he was arguing with a suspicious townie about the case on his totes scumspect. Also Nacho is my waifu. And I'm not scum. I supose the point about PoE on CES makes sense though.
- tierce empire tammy nacho llamarble zach ogml
= three of Benmage Cogito Ergo Sum DeasVail
##Unvote
##Vote: CES
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:51 pm
by Tierce
↑Shadoweh wrote:What other game are you referring to?
↑Tierce wrote:Well, at least the other game is over now. Empire, any new thoughts on CES from it?
Aside from the fact that I think CES can be obvtown when he wants to be, not really anything I can articulate. I had him as a weak townread even before the cop quickhammer thing (the read basically exponentially increased after that). I do feel like he played way differently in that game but it's more of a general vibe/gut feeling type thing looking at the way he approached the game and I hate that kind of thing so whatever -- I think maybe because he was just generally a lot more forthcoming with his reasoning and his back-and-forths with people came off as if he was genuinely scumhunting (think Sherlock).
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:14 pm
by DeasVail
No Shadoweh. You're supposed to townread me when no one else can!
You're supposed to townread me when no one else can!