Marvel Avengers Alliance - Game over

[Thor665]

It's not about an advantage - you simply don't have a case, so it's not a question of when you "reveal" it - there's nothing to reveal. You haven't stated one word of suspicion on why I'm scum, at all, and I'm not going to sit down and let you call me scum with no justification.

I really, really want you to be scum.

So if it makes no difference what day I say it on in your opinion...what's the boggle?

[T S O]

It's not about an advantage - you simply don't have a case, so it's not a question of when you "reveal" it - there's nothing to reveal. You haven't stated one word of suspicion on why I'm scum, at all, and I'm not going to sit down and let you call me scum with no justification.

I really, really want you to be scum.

So if it makes no difference what day I say it on in your opinion...what's the boggle?

You are calling me and smargaret scum together.
I agree with smargaret being scum, but there's not one iota of evidence to suggest we are partners.
I ask you to show this proof.
You refuse to, because you don't have it.
I then deduct you're setting up my mislynch tomorrow.
Thus, you are scum with smargaret.

It makes a difference today because it makes it more likely you're not talking out of your behind today. If you post it today, and I show it's bull, as I will, your credibility drops. Thus, you refuse to show it today because of semantics.

There is not one person in the game at present who would disagree with you posting the case on me today, except you.

[T S O]

At this point, Bulba's scumhunting effort is even more desolate than Smargaret's. It was better before, but it has completely disintegrated today. The reasoning for Smargaret's reads may be questionable, but at least she has reads. The fact that Bulba still won't analyse Smargaret is baffling to me and what little he has to say (Spider-Man being a fake claim would upset him) is bizarre. His TSO read is weak and problematic. He already pushed TSO for defending Zekrom on D1 (i.e. pre-flip) and I think this may have been an attempt to deflect. Considering his own position on Zekrom and the fact that Smargaret has actually been proven to have defended Zekrom based on inconsistent reasoning, that's a very surface level reason to suspect TSO.

I agree with this completely, but smargaret is still more likely than Bulba, and I still maintain Thor is a more likely partner of smargaret.

Bulba claims that he's trying to accomplish a TSO lynch, but he has done preciously little to actually get there. The only thing he's accomplishing right now with his play is to not disrupt a Smargaret lynch. I disagree with Bro that Bulba/Smargaret is a very likely scum team, for this reason and for Bulba's general conduct towards Smarg. Given the landscape of reads and pushes right now, I also see him as more likely scum with one of TSO/Thor than I do Smargaret.

But Bulba's not doing nothing. He's just inactive as fuck.

Smargaret's scum, and I'm not compromising, CTD. I've had it with compromising. I'll admit when I've taken this attitude before I've been wrong, but I'm so convinced of smargaret's guilt I considered faking a Cop guilty today. She's getting roped today or LyLo. And I don't want her in LyLo.

[T S O]

My paranoia levels are starting to notice - it's occurred to me that BRO should have found it suspicious when Thor wasn't dead.

[Thor665]

It makes a difference today because it makes it more likely you're not talking out of your behind today. If you post it today, and I show it's bull, as I will, your credibility drops. Thus, you refuse to show it today because of semantics.

There is not one person in the game at present who would disagree with you posting the case on me today, except you.

None of this makes sense. Even if I wanted to set you up for a mislynch...I'd still need to present a case on you tomorrow to do so. Whether or not you "destroy my credability" on the day I wish to lynch you or the day prior makes no difference.

The only way it makes a difference is if Smarg is town - are you arguing this?

[T S O]

Obviously not.

What is the difference between posting the case on me today or tomorrow to town Thor?

[Thor665]

Laziness and focus of discussion on Smarg.

[Thor665]

But, for the record, I'm not calling it a town tell. You're the one calling it a scum tell for...unclear reasons.

[BROseidon]

My paranoia levels are starting to notice - it's occurred to me that BRO should have found it suspicious when Thor wasn't dead.

I'm not sure what you're gunning at here.

I brought that up as a frustration-crumb that I hadn't blocked a kill.

[BROseidon]

Of the four VT claims, I'm most confident that TSO's is legit.

I want CTD/p5's opinion on this, because if we all get on the same page and we're right, the rest of the game is kind of moot.

[Bulbazak]

Why was my defence of Zekrom scummy? From my recollections, it wasn't even a defence.

How is doing your best to dismantle a Zekrom wagon not a defense?

At this point, Bulba's scumhunting effort is even more desolate than Smargaret's. It was better before, but it has completely disintegrated today.

And I'm sure the early claiming and setup discussions, along with my V/LA, had nothing to do with it. And it's not like I've been pushing my biggest scumread. Nope, I'm obviously doing nothing.

The fact that Bulba still won't analyse Smargaret is baffling to me and what little he has to say (Spider-Man being a fake claim would upset him) is bizarre.

First, the fact that I can't make heads or tails of Smargaret doesn't mean I haven't analyzed her. Second, I feel that at this point in the game it's more beneficial to focus on my actual scumreads, since that will tell me more about this game than going after a non-scumread would. Finally, did you ever consider I'm a big Spider-Man fan and would hate for the mod to use that character as a fake claim? It has nothing to do with my thoughts on Smargaret's alignment, just my fandom of the character in general and part of my overall hesitance.

His TSO read is weak and problematic.

I don't think so. It's certainly stronger than the crap case you're presenting.

He already pushed TSO for defending Zekrom on D1 (i.e. pre-flip) and I think this may have been an attempt to deflect. Considering his own position on Zekrom and the fact that Smargaret has actually been proven to have defended Zekrom based on inconsistent reasoning, that's a very surface level reason to suspect TSO.

I felt that one of the scum was likely trying to dismantle the Zekrom lynch. TSO fits this perfectly. The fact that he's trying to deny it now only increases my conviction that I'm right. Do you not think any of the scum were trying to prevent the Zekrom lynch at all?

Bulba claims that he's trying to accomplish a TSO lynch, but he has done preciously little to actually get there.

Yes, because stating repeatedly that TSO is scum and trying to get people to vote him is doing little to acquire a lynch.

The only thing he's accomplishing right now with his play is to not disrupt a Smargaret lynch.

You got me there. I figure if no one will lynch TSO-scum, then a Smargaret lynch will at least be informative.

If anything, I think they'd want to stick to the lynch that would get rid of the strongest (or rather most active, to be modest) available town player, and that implicates Thor and Bulba.

You've seen me as scum. When have I ever gone out of my way to try to get the strongest town player lynched? Those are my preferred NKs, not my preferred lynches.

Furthermore, are you really saying that I claimed VT as scum, even thought I was going last and knew it was a power light setup? Is your big case really that Bulba as scum is stupid and lurky, even though you've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary?

My paranoia levels are starting to notice - it's occurred to me that BRO should have found it suspicious when Thor wasn't dead.

I thought he did?

Of the four VT claims, I'm most confident that TSO's is legit.

Why is that?

On another note, I looked back over TSO's posts d3, and I'm not sure what it was I saw. There is a big trend of him being very appeasing, especially to CTD. I also didn't like how he misrepped my view on Smargaret, even though I had stated repeatedly what it was. It appears like he was copying CTD's thoughts more than actually advancing his own, similar to what he did with Porkens and Thor on d1. Given that the TSO wagon is tied with Smargaret's and my own, I'm not going to move my vote. I'd appreciate it if more people would vote TSO, though.

[smargaret]

Thor, what meta on Zekrom convinced you that it was time to move from Bulbazak?

Because Bulba looked like he was panicking at being caught on d1.

VOTE: Bulbazak

BROseidon's entrance was incredibly bad, but he sorta got better, so I'm not gonna go after him for now.

Zekrom wagon is shamefully poor. No-one here can read him whatsoever, but almost no-one has admitted they don't have a clue about him. I'd be very surprised if there isn't scum on Zekrom right now, potentially multiple scum.

I don't think Zekrom is more likely to be a Village Idiot than scum. I'm saying he's an idiot no matter what and no-one here can read him for shit. Thus, as I've said before, he's quite literally a coinflip in terms of flipping scum.

Porkens calling it a policy lynch and a scum lynch as well really irks me.

if their priority was to protect a PR, I could see them trying to derail the lynch.

Agreed. Which is why I'm voting off the wagon today. If I'm scum in this situation I'm doing one of two things:

1. Hard defending so when he flips scum people are like "Yates was defending him too hard to be his scum buddy"
or
2. Finding *ANY* excuse to be on another wagon [in the hopes we can force a no lynch] while commenting as little as possible on my buddy going down

it's the going out and looking for a meta example where he misread zek that really gets me. That's where it crosses the line between responding to a question and overreacting.

It's you, isn't it? You're Zek's scum buddy, aren't you?

VOTE: smargaret

It feels like I'm shooting myself in the foot here, but I feel the need to point out that I was probably the one most defending Zekrom.

Though, I do agree with your vote.

Thor, you're probably gonna mock me at some stage. Better now than later, I guess.

More to the point, I think you're mistaking Zekrom being an absolute moron for Zekrom being scum. You have a lot of interactions with him which are just him being supernaturally dense as opposed to scummy.

Is this a policy lynch or a scum lynch

PEdit: Why would you ever suggest that?

TSO, this is you defending Zekrom.

And in the interests of full disclosure, here's every D1 post in my iso mentioning my read on him:

cxinlee is massively antitown. Post content or don't post, but posting just for the sake of hearing yourself type is essentially doing the prod dodge thing. Scorpion is town. If one of the thor/porkens/bulbazak mess or zekrom is scum, then the other one isn't - I don't see scum trying to distract from distancing like that. Actually, if thor/porkens/bulbazak are town,then zek probably is too because scum want mislynches, and those don't happen if scum draw attention to themselves by blatantly not commenting.

That said, wtf? RVS is not inherently protown.

VOTE: cxin. Have opinions. Express them.

My reasoning wasn't totally clear. It was 3 am local time, in my defense.

Basically, there's a big mess that I wasn't really up to sorting through at 3 am between Thor, Porkens, and Bulbazak. It looks likely that one or more wagons could conceivably come out of that. If T/P/B are all town, then scum would like to encourage those wagons - and not draw a lot of attention to themselves and risk derailing the hypothetically building wagons by trying to start RQS once the game has actually begun. On the flip side, if any of T/P/B are scum, or are distancing, then presumably scum-Zek would know that and would have a planned out response, and I really, REALLY doubt that any entire scumteam would argue for randomly starting RQS. It's WIFOMy, but I don't see any reason why scum-Zek would play that way.

That said, given the lack of a daystart PM, it's probable that the list of currently-active players is disproportionately scummy. Presumably scum would have been told to stop talking in the qt, so they'd all be aware day had started while town players had no idea.

Thor - what's the difference between lynchbait and low-hanging fruit? Specifically re: your reply to me about cxin and your reply to Yates about Zek. I'd quote, but ipads are annoying and I don't feel like switching to the real computer.

Porkens - Do you still think Thor and Bulbazak are scum? Do you think Zek is scum with them? Why?

Bulbazak, though - I don't know that I'd call it a flinch per se, but definitely overly defensive. Do not like.

Zakk - anything else to say? Because calling someone out around one post when we have seven pages of actual stuff to go on (as opposec to questions about emotional state) and then nothing else? That's a bit fence sitty.

cxin - It means don't active lurk. If you're going to post, respond to the thread or actually draw conclusions, don't just post "OHAI, I'm here, nothing to say!". If you don't have an opinion, reread the thread and develop one. What is your read on Zek? In fact, who are your top three scumreads and why?

Not sure bout TSO/bulb. Will reread later.

I don't like the zekrom wagon. I dont like policy lynches in general unless they're on scum.

Also guys, stop pressurising me to get reads/opinions, I scumhunt at my own pace.

cxin, no, you scumhunt at a pace that lets town read you. To do otherwise is antitown at best, scummy at worst. Speaking of which, you still haven't answered me - who are your top three scumreads? And how would you know that zek isn't scum, unless you are?

Yiley, we're past 300 votes. Do you have anything to say about the game, or are you just going to bandwagon away? I mean, Zek is pretty anti-town, but it looks more like anti-town than scummy. The join date, for one, and the question about emotional state? That sounds like transitioning from IRL mafia to online mafia. I'd much rather lynch the anti-town player who looks scummy (cxin). Or Bulbazak. Or for that matter, Yiley, for shamelessly sheeping.

Thor, I asked about the lynchbait vs low-hanging fruit because it sounds like you're in favor of a cxin wagon and less so a zek wagon (specifically, the reasonable to lynch lynchbait vs low-hanging fruit isn't alignment indicative).

Porkens, I actually did have a couple of opinions in the post with the questions, specifically that Bulbazak was overly defensive and Zakk was failing to take a position on practically anything, which for the record is scummy, but I want to see more of what he has to say.

Sorry for disappearing; some stupid person decided to stupidly spray stupid perfume on the stupid pool deck (instead of, y'know, in the LOCKER ROOMS THAT WERE LESS THAN 50 YDS AWAY) Monday night and my asthma objected. Vehemently. Protip: If you're going to get taken by ambulance to the er in nothing but a wet swimsuit, don't do it in the middle of February in New England.

cxin, with the amount of stuff that's happened in this game, if you can't come up with any content except a townread on Thor, well, that's why the meta is relevant. Because it shows that you can come up with content - heck, you can BS content if you have to - and you just don't care enough to. And players who don't care enough to play the game are a liability that, regardless of alignment, town cannot afford to have in lylo.

And yeah, to some extent the same is true of Zek. That said, the meta doesn't show that he's being willfully obtuse, and I think cxin is more likely to be scum than Zek.

So basically, there's defending a scumbuddy by calling the entire wagon scummy and actively trying to derail the lynch, and there's wanting to lynch a scumread instead of a townread. It's the instead of that's key here. And I have reasons for my vote - they're in my post immediately before the one with the vote.

Speaking of voting, Bulba, wantt to vote TSO with me?

Thor, I 'd like to see your case on TSO too, please.

[Bulbazak]

Speaking of voting, Bulba, wantt to vote TSO with me?

I thought I was. I never unvoted.

@Mod: Why isn't my vote on TSO anymore?

[jasonT1981]

Day 4 Vote Count 7

Smargaret 2 - T S O, Thor665,
Bulbazak, 2 - CrashTextDummie, BROseidon,
TSO 2 - Bulbazak, smargaret,

Not voting

PeregrineV,

V/LA

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

(expired on 2014-04-24 15:11:00)

till Day 4 Deadline

@Mod: Why isn't my vote on TSO anymore?

Fixed - Sorry. I missed your vote.

Note - Everyone is on V/LA until Tuesday. Happy Easter

[BROseidon]

Day 4 Vote Count 7

Smargaret 3 - T S O, Thor665,smargaret,
Bulbazak, 2 - CrashTextDummie, BROseidon,
TSO 1 - Bulbazak,

Smargaret's vote should also be on TSO. It should be 2/2/2

We have a day left. p5 needs to check in and drop a vote. I feel most confident about Bulba, but would be willing to go with Smarg. I'm not okay with the TSO wagon.

[BROseidon]

Oh hey it's my scum day.

Also, as to why I'm most confident that TSO is town, it's gut.

[T S O]

I might switch to Bulba. Might. Might not.

Hint: vote smargaret.

[T S O]

Also, my wagon is ridiculous. Smargaret's OMGUS and Bulba's ...bullshit, quite plainly, is all they've got.

[T S O]

Actually, I have spare time, I'll refute smargaret and Bulba's posts.

At least Bulba made an effort.

[CrashTextDummie]

Of the four VT claims, I'm most confident that TSO's is legit.

I want CTD/p5's opinion on this, because if we all get on the same page and we're right, the rest of the game is kind of moot.

I don't share your confidence. I'm actually increasingly paranoid that the scum team is TSO/Thor. Their recent arguments feel faintly fabricated to me. Mislynch smarg together, crossbus tomorrow, mislynch bulba the day after seems like a straightforward plan for that particular team. I particularly dislike that TSO, in stating that he wasn't willing to compromise on Bulba, said that Smarg is either getting lynched today or in lylo, which he couldn't say without inside knowledge about Bulba's alignment. Currently contemplating whether that was a slip.

[CrashTextDummie]

Bulba, I'm on the phone, so you're not getting the wall treatment.

You have not been pushing TSO or trying to get people to vote him. You haven't even presented a proper case against him. I've already pointed out that your setup spec is problematic in itself and not a good substitute for actual scumhunting. "Concentrating on your scum reads" has to be a joke; you have one scum read and you haven't even properly outlined that read. It's kind of a big deal for me that you properly assess the others and I seriously don't get why you refuse to indulge me.

You say that one of the scum was defending Zekrom and that TSO fits the bill and I say that Smargaret also defended Zekrom and also fits the bill and your refusal to address that bothers me to no end. The only remaining suspect who didn't on some level try to discourage the Zekrom wagon is Thor. How about you share some thoughts on that? Do you think Zekrom was bussed?

The fact that you went last in the massclaim and claimed VT does nothing for me.

[CrashTextDummie]

mod: I request a deadline extension. The holidays have killed the pace of this game. Please and thank you. <3

[T S O]

A slip? Please. My point is it's literally impossible for smargaret not to be lynched this game because she's a) scum and b) hounded by me. There is no reason we should potentially mislynch today when we have her here, and give ourselves a potential mislynch tomorrow as opposed to fucking ourselves today.

Please don't let your paranoia get the better of you, CTD.

[T S O]

Seconding deadline extension.

[Bulbazak]

You have not been pushing TSO or trying to get people to vote him.

I've constantly been saying that I have a strong scumread on TSO, and I'd rather vote him today. That's pretty strong for me. I tried to talk Thor into a TSO vote earlier, but he made it abundantly clear that he was not going to move his vote before I even got there. I've stated repeatedly that I'd rather lynch him, and I've even outlined the case. Given my overall access this day phase, I'm not sure what more I could do.

You haven't even presented a proper case against him.

Mine is the strongest case that has been presented on anybody, imo.

I've already pointed out that your setup spec is problematic in itself and not a good substitute for actual scumhunting.

Agreed. I kinda got sucked into that one and felt I had to defend my position.

"Concentrating on your scum reads" has to be a joke; you have one scum read and you haven't even properly outlined that read.

What do you call my previous post? I pretty clearly stated why I thought he was scum.

It's kind of a big deal for me that you properly assess the others and I seriously don't get why you refuse to indulge me.

I can't help it that I don't scum hunt quite like you. Smargaret was a blind spot for me. I was admittedly focused on other players more than I was on her, so I don't have a decent feel on her either way. Thor was a townread for most of the game, and I still have those vibes from him, so I'm not interested in lynching him today. Meanwhile, I only have one strong scumread left, and I'd rather lynch him and then reevaluate from there.

You say that one of the scum was defending Zekrom and that TSO fits the bill and I say that Smargaret also defended Zekrom and also fits the bill and your refusal to address that bothers me to no end.

TSO defended Zekrom a lot harder than Smargaret did. It looked off to me then, and it still looks off to me now. Why do you think Smargaret is more likely to be scum defending Zek than TSO?

The only remaining suspect who didn't on some level try to discourage the Zekrom wagon is Thor. How about you share some thoughts on that?

That's the only thing that's making me paranoid about Thor atm. My belief was that one scum was defending Zek and one was pushing him. I might need to reevaluate that, but it seemed like the ideal scum strategy when I saw the Zekrom flip.

Do you think Zekrom was bussed?

Probably. I thought at least one was pushing for his lynch. I would be surprised if both scum were defending him.

The fact that you went last in the massclaim and claimed VT does nothing for me.

I just found it strange that you were one of the ones making a big deal about that, and then you magically forget about it when you push me as scum. I'd expect you to at least consider it in some capacity.

I also wouldn't mind if the deadline was extended.