Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:41 pm
In large part thanks to me not screaming anything at all. In fact, I barely whisper!↑ Anatole Kuragin wrote:Mastin isn't screaming town to me
Mafiascum.net
https://forum.mafiascum-staging.net/
The Wire Season 1 Mafia: Baltimore Police and Omar Victory!
Page 55 of 88
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:48 pm
(I really, really should be giving this game more, but am slightly apathetic and HIGHLY tired. As in, for some reason absolutely physically exhausted. It being nearly 2 am may contribute, though I wasn't expecting that 'til much later. Sooooooooooooooo, sleep needed.)
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:52 pm
yeah so part of my scum read on you is thor-like logic. for all this bluster and confidence in your ability to correctly read and analyze the players here you haven't been able to lynch a single scum. and while your arguments sound well thought out, they lack a specific focus. You're shooting down certain pushes, but not offering a concrete direction that town should go in. Your offense is scattershot, you have a pool of players that are "lynchable" but no one in particular seems to stand out. This reads scum since the high number of suggested scum lynches clogs the town up. High number of lynchable people => no clear target for town => stalled game => high likelihood of mislynch
where was your helpful mind when we needed to push a lynch through yesterday? if you had such a good read of vezok, why didn't you come in and give us the numbers needed to push through a SKOT lynch?
plus, I will note that a lot of your arguments defending players are meta based. this means the quality of your argument completely relies upon you being town. as scum, tossing out meta based town reads and scum reads for every player is a good way to plant wifom seeds.
I'm revoking my previous revoking of my right to make decisions
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mastin
where was your helpful mind when we needed to push a lynch through yesterday? if you had such a good read of vezok, why didn't you come in and give us the numbers needed to push through a SKOT lynch?
plus, I will note that a lot of your arguments defending players are meta based. this means the quality of your argument completely relies upon you being town. as scum, tossing out meta based town reads and scum reads for every player is a good way to plant wifom seeds.
I'm revoking my previous revoking of my right to make decisions
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mastin
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:57 pm
In the next day or 2 I plan on reviewing your iso
but a quick glance shows some inconsistencies
but a quick glance shows some inconsistencies
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:03 pm
Well, that's new.
The day Thor and I have similar logic is the day that he shaves his beard and abdicates from drinking.
Nobody has. And trust me, I'm quite aware.For all this bluster and confidence in your ability to correctly read and analyze the players here you haven't been able to lynch a single scum.
You're telling me this as if you expect me to not know it.And while your arguments sound well thought out, they lack a specific focus.
This is one of those games where townreads are easier to get than scumreads. But I AM voting SKOT, you'll note.You're shooting down certain pushes, but not offering a concrete direction that town should go in.
(For the record, this is a BIG FREAKIN MASSIVE WHOPPING HUGE towntell of mine since scuMastin is many things, and chaotic/disorganized are not among them; laser-focus can actually be something of a scumtell.)Your offense is scattershot, you have a pool of players that are "lynchable" but no one in particular seems to stand out.
At the time of the lynch? V/LA. I wasn't around. Never logged in a single time near deadline. Before the time of the lynch? Did exactly that, pushed that vezok was town and that lynching him was a Very Bad Idea. If I was around to have switched to SKOT, I would have, but I wasn't.where was your helpful mind when we needed to push a lynch through yesterday?
No, not meta, just understanding of the players, something that transcends meta. I keep things to a game-by-game basis for the most part. /theorydebate #goreadmymd.plus, I will note that a lot of your arguments defending players are meta based.
...Which is a given anyway? I mean, I CAN make arguments that are from an objective (rather than subjective) view if I REALLY feel like it, but for the most part...kinda worthless arguing about something that is from a viewpoint I don't actually have?this means the quality of your argument completely relies upon you being town.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:04 pm
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:13 pm
see, my theory is that you are scum and playing a very good stalling game
there are reasons for this of course, and they'll come when i write up a big argument
but with 87 posts to go through, its going to be a long one
unfortunately i cant trust your self meta claim though. if you are a schemer type of scum player, i have no problem believing that you could conform to your town meta while deliberately sabotaging town.
its a thor-like read in the sense that im judging you based on your ability to catch scum this game.
there are reasons for this of course, and they'll come when i write up a big argument
but with 87 posts to go through, its going to be a long one
unfortunately i cant trust your self meta claim though. if you are a schemer type of scum player, i have no problem believing that you could conform to your town meta while deliberately sabotaging town.
its a thor-like read in the sense that im judging you based on your ability to catch scum this game.
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:18 pm
Oh, heck with it.
Since you're clearly not familiar with me and are therefore ACTUALLY newish to the site, let me give you the rundown of what you need to know about me.
A handy little flowchart I developed.
Since you're clearly not familiar with me and are therefore ACTUALLY newish to the site, let me give you the rundown of what you need to know about me.
A handy little flowchart I developed.
Spoiler: it's long enough for spoiler tags
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:35 pm
I don't stall as scum. That doesn't mean I won't stall with a scum role PM, but I assure you, any stalling I do is RL-induced. I tried stalling. 2009-2011 called; it wants its VI scuMastin back. Stalling intentionally is just about the worst possible scum tactic in the book that goes against literally everything I teach my scum players to do. (What with the whole, y'know, mafia theory thing kinda being my specialty and with me writing multiple guides on exactly that.)
I CAN stall. It can happen. RL gets in the way, particularly mental health worsening. (It's in my sig for good reason: because it actually HAS become detrimental to my play in some circumstances.) But said stalling is never done with an alignment attached; it's stalling as a person, not a player.
For the record, I'm probably just gonna ignore it when you post. Right now, I'm mostly just engaged in casual banter out of boredom and apathy. Just so you know. (And as arrogant as it sounds, I can afford to do so 'cause you're never gonna get more than one or two other votes there. Maybe you could squeeze a fourth if VERY lucky, but that's the peak of any hypothetical wagon on me.)there are reasons for this of course, and they'll come when i write up a big argument
Also for the record, if you make anything actually *lengthy*, nobody's gonna bother actually reading it. 'Specially since they already know my alignment for the most part. (They might read it to get a bearing on yours, though.) There's a reason I advocate short, sweet, and simple cases. Long ones are full of holes and nobody actually pays attention to 'em. So just sayin', it'll be a waste of time. ('Course, you don't believe me when I SAY it'll be a waste of time, but after you've actually spent the time making the case and frustratingly find that people are reacting exactly as I'm telling you they're gonna react, you'll realize I was right.)but with 87 posts to go through, its going to be a long one
Oh, nobody does. Doesn't stop them from later finding out it was true!unfortunately i cant trust your self meta claim though.
Oh, you have NO idea. Literally writing the book on scumplay, here. Aiming to be Don Mafia to contrast Vi's Professor Paragon. I'm not an invincible tycoon as scum, but I'm preeeeeeeeeeeeetty dang close.if you are a schemer type of scum player, i have no problem believing that you could conform to your town meta while deliberately sabotaging town.
Right, so BOP.its a thor-like read in the sense that im judging you based on your ability to catch scum this game.
I have bad news for ya:
Much as I LOVE to present myself as being a competent scumhunter in-thread, post-game I'm ALWAYS humble for good reason and highlight in just how many ways I tended to be wrong. This game in particular I know I'll have plenty for. That being said, will probably have better bearings when someone I actually want lynched is lynched. They don't have to even flip scum, though obviously that'd be preferable. Players getting lynched I don't want lynched gives me speculation about wagon formation. Scumdriven lynch wagons, for instance. Players getting lynched I advocated the lynching of gives me hard information, town or scum and EXACTLY what the wagons mean.
(To some extent, you could say that I get much better as the game progresses. I know for a fact that I'll actually be much better tomorrow than I am today. Might not have a great track record, but if I live, tomorrow's a fine day to start improving it.)
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:42 pm
(Though I suppose it is reassuring a bit that there's at least some suspicion on me.
I mean, if there were none, then the scum might think I'm worse of a threat than I am and actually *nightkill* me over players that're objectively better targets.
And while that's objectively a good thing, subjectively, I actually kinda WANT to live. Yeah, if I die, that means I can't screw up future days, but it also means I won't have contributed anything EXCEPT my screw-ups, either. I'm a much stronger lategame player than I am early-game, AND I'm typically a force to be reckoned with after I "flip the switch" so to speak, so the longer the live, the more damage I do to the scumteam, so it'd be a shame for me to die. And being universally townread is a good way to ensure that. But by scum thinking I'm full of hot air [to be fair, I am], combined with lingering hope in a mislynch of me, suspicion on me generated by you helps me live, so thanks for that.)
I mean, if there were none, then the scum might think I'm worse of a threat than I am and actually *nightkill* me over players that're objectively better targets.
And while that's objectively a good thing, subjectively, I actually kinda WANT to live. Yeah, if I die, that means I can't screw up future days, but it also means I won't have contributed anything EXCEPT my screw-ups, either. I'm a much stronger lategame player than I am early-game, AND I'm typically a force to be reckoned with after I "flip the switch" so to speak, so the longer the live, the more damage I do to the scumteam, so it'd be a shame for me to die. And being universally townread is a good way to ensure that. But by scum thinking I'm full of hot air [to be fair, I am], combined with lingering hope in a mislynch of me, suspicion on me generated by you helps me live, so thanks for that.)
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:49 pm
Oh, right.
Mostly accurate.
Not quite inclusive, though.
AP can, has, and actually DID vouch for it, though. (You can see AP vouching for me in a ton of our previous games and he vouched for me here as well.)
zMuffinman can, has, and IS vouching for it as well.
I've always had a bit of a 'love triangle' with the two. I read 'em well, they read me well. Just replace 'love' with 'instinctively know the alignment of' and you get the idea.
(My zMuffinman radar this game isn't entirely *broken*, but since I'm currently having a BIT of an off game, he's not locked down.)
Point of clarity. I said that nobody believes it, I don't expect them to, but that doesn't stop it from being shown true.
Mostly accurate.
Not quite inclusive, though.
AP can, has, and actually DID vouch for it, though. (You can see AP vouching for me in a ton of our previous games and he vouched for me here as well.)
zMuffinman can, has, and IS vouching for it as well.
I've always had a bit of a 'love triangle' with the two. I read 'em well, they read me well. Just replace 'love' with 'instinctively know the alignment of' and you get the idea.
(My zMuffinman radar this game isn't entirely *broken*, but since I'm currently having a BIT of an off game, he's not locked down.)
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:50 pm
(The reason it's a love triangle is that while they have that intimate connection with me, when it comes to each other, no such bond exists. They CAN work together as the same alignment, and CAN read the other as being scum, but not consistently or with the same history of having done so.)
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2014 11:11 pm
The Titus wagon definitely does not suck.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:34 am
Guys if she wouldn't lie to us about her alignment...
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:34 am
I mean, would a scum just go on the internet and say they are town? Surely not.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:27 am
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:43 am
UNVOTE:
VOTE: SKOT
VOTE: SKOT
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:45 am
↑ mastin2 wrote:
I have bad news for ya:
Much as I LOVE to present myself as being a competent scumhunter in-thread, post-game I'm ALWAYS humble for good reason and highlight in just how many ways I tended to be wrong. This game in particular I know I'll have plenty for. That being said, will probably have better bearings when someone I actually want lynched is lynched. They don't have to even flip scum, though obviously that'd be preferable. Players getting lynched I don't want lynched gives me speculation about wagon formation. Scumdriven lynch wagons, for instance. Players getting lynched I advocated the lynching of gives me hard information, town or scum and EXACTLY what the wagons mean.
see here's the thing
this is exactly how i play
hell everything you've said about your play is exactly how i play
so really im scum hunting you for doing things that i would do as scum
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:13 am
before my tunnelling of mastin starts, 1 last thing i want to check:
we have a doc and a vig in this game. you say Enabler lets town PR's act uninterrupted, but what happens if the town PR's interrupt eachother? im thinking a doc protects player x, vig shoots player x scenario
↑ Xisiqomelir wrote:And I normally do this at L-1, but we're tight on time here.
I am, Avon'sBrianna Barksdaleimouto, and the non-street face of the family.
Crumb:
↑ Xisiqomelir wrote:@mastin2:
So you ain't gonna say nothing on it?
Which ought to have been obvious from the disconnect from my usual grammatical style, but apparently practically no one has watched the show this game.
From this ep, after Dee dies courtesy of Stringer's string-pullery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 5M1C5Q#t=7
I was originally our town Conditional Enabler, which let me provide substantial support for our PRs every night, like letting them perform night actions without the possibility of interruption or cancellation or interference, but the condition hinged upon Avon being alive in the game. Since he died, there is an "I've done all I can for you" clause in my role PM which triggered, and I became town 1-shot Enabler, hence:
this:
lead to this:
↑ Xisiqomelir wrote:Salamence's game-ruining skills are unparalleled.
I still have my shot. With my role dropping to 1-shot before I even got to post, I wanted to be sure of my PR-guesses before I used it.
we have a doc and a vig in this game. you say Enabler lets town PR's act uninterrupted, but what happens if the town PR's interrupt eachother? im thinking a doc protects player x, vig shoots player x scenario
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:21 am
That scenario doesn't mean the vig is being interrupted; interruption is stopping the action from happening but with a doc protect the vig's action still happens.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:06 am
ok, i feel better about that claim then.
now, lets play the mastin chart game!!!
conclusion: mastin is scum. note that im not going to include the inconsistent part since thats specifically tailored for this situation
now, lets play the mastin chart game!!!
↑ Slice of Life wrote:How To Read Mastin:
Are you zMuffinman?N
Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->Are you AngryPidgeon?N
Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->Are you a player who has hydraed or has otherwise worked well with Mastin?N
Yes-->You likely don't need the chart, but because you're not that familiar with her, you should probably go through it anyway as a precaution.
No-->You REALLY need to go through the chart; proceed! But fair warning in advance that it's only about 90% accurate.
Is/Are zMuffinman/AP in the game?Y, but im gonna do the chart anyways
Yes-->Sheep them on their read! Never doubt it.
No-->Think like them and continue on.
THE FLOWCHART:
Is it D1?
Yes-->...And you're suspicious of Mastin?!?I was not suspicious of mastin day 1
She's town.
No-->Is it D2? Yes-->She's prob-town.
No-->Is it D3 or later? Yes-->Proceed.Y
Does Mastin look town?Y
No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed to next step.
Trust her as town.
What does she do?
Get paranoid of you-->She's town.
Enthusiastically work with you-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.Y
Nothing-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Milk your townread and bully you-->Proceed.
Suddenly pressure her.
What does she do?
Freak out-->She's town.
Show concern, but subdued-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Brush it off-->Proceed.Y
Is she posting up a storm?sort of
Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.
Is she gloating how good her scumgame is?
Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.Not until now
Does Mastin have delusions of grandeur?
Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Is she waffling...
...A lot?
Yes-->She's town.
Sorta?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.Sorta
No-->Proceed.
Does she look like she's trying to leave a legacy?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Is she antagonizing everyone?
Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.N
Has Mastin rambled at all on MD theory?
Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.N
Is Mastin making a case for why she could be scum?
Yes-->She's town.
Kinda?-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Is Mastin making very strong reasons why she's town?
No-->She's town.
Kinda-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.Y
If applicable, did she 'crumb her role and/or claim it openly and immediately?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Do the circumstances behind her play and/or claim look town?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Is she irrational?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Is she spewing random illogical theories?
Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Does her posting look intentional?
No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed.Y
Is she spontaneous, random, and/or whimsical?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.N
Is her tone flat?
No-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.Y
(BONUS:
If Mastin is behind, does she demonstrate knowledge of thecurrentgamestate she could not reasonably have at her supposed point of reference?
No-->She's town.
It's hard to say...-->She probably does know, but not much, having likely skimmed offline, not logged in, and chose not to get the full context to spoiler her as probable-town.
Yes-->Proceed.)Y
And finally...
Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?
Yes-->She's town; defend her!
...Maybe?-->You've gotten this far and the best you've got is a "maybe"?!? You dummy, run through it again! (But she's probably town anyway.)-->All other factors equal, if you're having this much trouble reading Mastin, just freakin' assume she's town. (She likely is, anyway.)-->FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, SHE'S TOWN, DANG IT.
No-->She's probably scum...but you should run through the flowchart one more time just to be sure, as a precaution.N
conclusion: mastin is scum. note that im not going to include the inconsistent part since thats specifically tailored for this situation
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:18 am
Well I can't argue with cold hard flowcharts.
VOTE: Mastin
VOTE: Mastin
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:23 am
I think the Enabler is a way around roleblockers and (something I'm wondering if the scum has as it would make sense flavor-wise) Jailkeepers.
I don't really see Mastin being scum. I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.
I don't really see Mastin being scum. I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:44 pm
titus-town is a different kind of awful posting though. titus-town makes her presence known, makes her thoughts and feelings on different players known, is actively trying to figure out the game in her own... special way... even if it's nonsensical there are elements of town play that shine through in the way she approaches the game
i mean, since you're using organic chemistry as an example, compare even the first 20 posts in that game to her entire ISO here
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:48 pm
Just sayin'.
My townplay recently has degraded to mediocre-at-best from the upper-mediocre it was before. (Mainly thanks to repeatedly getting lynched early game or apathetically flaking mid-game.)
But if you think your scumplay could ever touch mine.
You're wrong.
I'm so dang good at scum that
getting lynched furthers my own scum agenda
. (L4D.) There's only one or two other scum players who can claim that to their credit. I took out the parts that you answered correctly for the game. However, other things that I almost took out but left in anyway, "delusions of grandeur" hasn't happened that much but it
sorta
is there, albeit subtly, in my thinking. I'm not antagonizing everyone
, but I'm antagonizing a buncha people that it's really stupid to antagonize. (You, for instance. If you think my posting isn't antagonist towards you, don't really know what to say; I'm holding back from making it MORE antagonistic than this but I can clearly tell it IS antagonistic even in spite of that.) Almost removed the "case for why she's scum", but since the flowchart is a guideline and not an absolute rule, I left it in since the points of failure can be used to paint me as scum rather well.All the points I've left in the post are the points which're wrong. (To varying degrees.) If I'm bored enough, I'm sure I could spend extra time on 'em, but I'm not exactly in the mood for it. Though that does remind me, I need a point in there about focusing on scumhunting.
Right, that's another one I need to add in. (Adrien's not getting town points for coming to my defense, though.)↑ TheAdrienC wrote:I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.
The least-sucky name on it is yours.