In post 1294, teacher wrote:I’ve always rolled town w him. He reads me as town in most games, but hedges. He has a fairly accurate capture of me as a person.
im gonna assume you just forgot my first scum game
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:23 pm
by Vorkuta
In post 1349, Shoshin wrote:I have Nom, Buj, Pika, Dunn, Cinn, Flub, Nero, & Vork as varying degrees of town.
That leaves U2, Teacher, & Salad as scum. Can we lynch in this group today?
In post 1325, Detective Pikachu wrote:Was 1133 about vork or flubber? Tbh I have basically no read of vork, I think I had him as nullscum earlier but I'm honestly ok just taking your read for the day. I probably need to read his scumgames or something
vork
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:26 pm
by Shoshin
A town case on ED (for the non-believers):
Spoiler:
In post 7, EvilDeanius wrote:Please designate your best player so I may vote them to assert dominance
This is absurdly aggressive in ways that scum don't typically play. The level of confidence is unlikely from scum when playing in a new environment with unfamiliar players & meta norms.
In post 143, EvilDeanius wrote:I can see Vork's point about the "Don't know how to play this" comment at the beginning, but the rest of the points I don't really get. Adding the WIFOM of it being a modifier can only help us. If somebody scum reads them, the fact that they've softed PR should mean nothing until they make an actual claim.
In post 7, EvilDeanius wrote:Please designate your best player so I may vote them to assert dominance
You are
(Checkmate)
Oh cool, the whole point was to let you guys know this as it's my first game on this site, but it seems the message has already been received. Excellent.
Very natural & smooth tone, difficult to fake. The nuance in his reply to Vork is very towny ("I get X, but don't get Y) and suggests there's no agenda underlying his approach to the game.
Well-timed question. Pushing back in this way was needed here. If Cinn is town, this is especially towny because it's working to prevent an unnecessary mislynch based on policy.
Annihilates the chances of any scum winning by claiming it.
You can apply that to any role, the only difference is the inability to investigate it.
An investigative role isn't going to be able to check everyone, so you treat it the same as an unchecked VT, lynch them if they're scummy, keep them alive if they're not. Lynching them purely because of the claim doesn't make sense.
Fearlessly pushing in the right direction despite playing in a new environment. This is town more often than not.
In post 261, Vorkuta wrote:I'm saying that "I'm not obligated to BUT I will anyway"
The 2 signals are not mutually exclusive, but COMPLEMENTARY
The literal definition of LAMIST but yeah I'm just having "leaps of logic" lmao
okay bud
You can't apply LAMIST when you're attacking them for scummy behavior, and they counter by saying it isn't scummy. That's not LAMIST, that's just defending yourself.
These are towny responses, getting people to focus on issues with the right perspective, rather than remaining silent or distorting information to push possible mislynches.
Why would scum pick town!vorkuta as a day 1 mislynch? I mean objectively speaking if you were scum here, wouldn't your mind go towards the more lurk-ish people, where it's easier to make a case on? Because that's definitely easier than to go against a player like vorkuta here.
Because you get the loud/good players out of the way early, so you can mislynch the lurky players later with little resistance. You always try to mislynch/kill those with thread presence early.
This is another pro-town push in perspective that helps to prevent mislynches & provides a valuable way of thinking about how scum are likely to play.
Why would scum pick town!vorkuta as a day 1 mislynch? I mean objectively speaking if you were scum here, wouldn't your mind go towards the more lurk-ish people, where it's easier to make a case on? Because that's definitely easier than to go against a player like vorkuta here.
Because you get the loud/good players out of the way early, so you can mislynch the lurky players later with little resistance. You always try to mislynch/kill those with thread presence early.
Why did you choose to make this the subject of your first post after 10+ pages of content?
This was supposed to be closely followed by a reads list I'm half way through. But unfortunately irl stuff got in the way, then I got distracted and it's still only like half done rn.
Main issue I'm having is alot of my reading ability relies on meta, and as alot of you also seem to be quoting meta as reasons to vote each other, I'm finding it difficult to place people. I wanted to challenge myself by coming to a different site where I didn't know anybody to help improve this, but so far it's not gone well. Though I also know that my D1s are typically rather weak compared to my plays later in the game.. I'll work on the rest of the reads list today, but I know it's a fairly busy day for me today, so I can't promise anything.
Just some things of note so far:
Miller claim is v. likely town to me rn.
Vork v Nom reading as TvT to me.
Lynch pool for me as of rn is Teacher/Pika. I've not really disliked anyone on teacher's wagon so I can see it being pure, whereas Pika is kinda just gut atm. There's not alot there that I particularly dislike but there was a point where people seemed to start talking about him for lack of proper content, at which point he then switched to pushing on others who also hadn't done anything/alot. The timing just seems like a deflection to me, it seems off.
Again, very natural & smooth tone, difficult to fake. This isn't the type of post that scum make very often.
I agree strongly with the main points (miller is likely town, Vork/Nom as town, and Teacher/Pika as scummy at this point). The specific point he makes about timing seems very town to me as well, as scum don't typically read this closely or pay attention to timing in this way. The transparency about not having much to dislike was also very towny, unlikely to come from scum.
In post 735, EvilDeanius wrote:There's not alot there that I particularly dislike but there was a point where people seemed to start talking about him for lack of proper content, at which point he then switched to pushing on others who also hadn't done anything/alot. The timing just seems like a deflection to me, it seems off.
This is a good observation insofar as people pushing me for content when I don't really feel like doing things on day 1 tends to work, but I don't think it's a great reason to "gut" scumread me
Can you expand on your Vork townread (given you list him as TvT with nomnom)? That's been the basis for a good part of Dunn's iso so it would help me if you could comment on whether you see Dunn's push as townie if Vork town is one of your stronger/only reads.
Vork seems town because I feel like they would be more cautious about their pushes as scum. I don't think scum immediately attacks a miller claim in the way that they did, they just sort of let it sit for a while. They've also been very self assured of their pushes, and I think that comes with someone who cares more about lynching scum than just appearing townie.
Excellent explanation on why Vork is town.
I don't see anything scummy in any of ED's posts. I'm not sure why anyone ever scumread him, and I'm confident there's at least one scum voting him (and according to process of elimnation, two scum in U2 & Teacher).
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:27 pm
by Shoshin
I have a lot of respect for both U2 & Teacher as players. The fact they'd get ED so wrong when he's played quite well is very concerning.
In post 1294, teacher wrote:I’ve always rolled town w him. He reads me as town in most games, but hedges. He has a fairly accurate capture of me as a person.
im gonna assume you just forgot my first scum game
I was talking my rolls, not yours, which is what skitter asked.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:35 pm
by u r a person 2
In post 1356, Shoshin wrote:I have a lot of respect for both U2 & Teacher as players. The fact they'd get ED so wrong when he's played quite well is very concerning.
I bet you really did read ED that way when you chose to replace in
But I think that's where the truth ends. None of your interpretation there is actually town indicative, and I have a feeling that you probably replace into more scum slots than you'd like =P
I'm feeling like I'm playing a pretty good game rn, and I'm kind of wondering if this play by you means im right on one or two other scum slots as well
In post 1294, teacher wrote:I’ve always rolled town w him. He reads me as town in most games, but hedges. He has a fairly accurate capture of me as a person.
im gonna assume you just forgot my first scum game
I was talking my rolls, not yours, which is what skitter asked.
oh my apologies
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:49 pm
by Shoshin
I've never replaced a scum slot.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:50 pm
by Shoshin
I've also never incorrectly townread someone with conviction behind the read, except for Irrelephant one time.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:50 pm
by Shoshin
But like, 99% of my townreads have been correct across my games.
@sho - we’ve only played once together and you misread me that game too. And hardtowned scum. here (also 955/960).
Um, no. The one game we played together, everyone in the game thought you were scum EXCEPT me. I called you town all game. Then Irrelephant randomly hammered you in LYLO before I had a chance to fully weigh in.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:04 pm
by Vorkuta
Yes, let's dive into all of shoshin's games and dig up all of her wrong reads ever.
Let's do that- it's more fun compared to playing and solving this game.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:06 pm
by Shoshin
I had by far the best reads of any townie in the game Teacher's citing. You can check the game for this if you don't believe. Also, Vork, you were in 2058. You should know for a fact my reads are good.
Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:47 pm
by NerfedBuJ
Shoshin who are you and what have you done with shoshin?
Shoshin has never townread me AND agreed with such a high proportion of my reads before. We seem to disagree only Pika right now. Hell has frozen over, it's armageddon, the site and the world will end, but if shoshin is town here, which she probably is, then scum might as well concede right now they're caught.
Heck even if she's scum I'm not even mad. It's so much more pleasant not being called 'out of touch with reality' by her.
we’ve only played once together and you misread me that game too. And hardtowned scum. here (also 955/960).