I'm getting tired btw, if I sound kinda crazy and my arguments start becoming crap just ignore me. I feel like Rock is scum by just his overall look (what has he done that strikes towny to you) whether as Lavar actually had some towny moments.
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:20 pm
by Rockhopper
In post 1347, ben dover123 wrote:You voted BM, then unvoted, then voted again. That was probably the most crazy part of your D2.
Wait, BM self-hammering wasn't necessary after my post? I didn't expect you to turn back so quickly. It didn't look good imo.
You laid your plan down and I had nothing more to offer.
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:41 pm
by Rockhopper
*I didn't think more convo was necessary.
It was up to you if you wanted to unvote and talk more about the plan.
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:44 pm
by ben dover123
In post 1356, Rockhopper wrote:*I didn't think more convo was necessary.
It was up to you if you wanted to unvote and talk more about the plan.
Like, what I am surprised about is your progression to BM. You switched off of Chumbo so quickly, I could say this is scum realizing that the Chumbo wagon wasn't going to get any traction but I'll take in any town perspectives as well.
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:47 pm
by Rockhopper
Yeah, I was pretty confident that Lunar was scum D1, with Chumbo.
I wouldn't expect both scum to be on my wagon at E-2 and E-1, so {Lavar, Chumbo} was unlikely FMPOV.
I voted for Chumbo because I wanted to believe I was right, but BM was more likely.
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:50 pm
by ben dover123
In post 1358, Rockhopper wrote:Yeah, I was pretty confident that Lunar was scum D1, with Chumbo.
I wouldn't expect both scum to be on my wagon at E-2 and E-1, so {Lavar, Chumbo} was unlikely FMPOV.
I voted for Chumbo because I wanted to believe I was right, but BM was more likely.
. . .
So you thought that Chumbo was scum D1 but he was E-2 on your wagon
and then you don't think Chumbo could be scum now on D2
but you still voted Chumbo in the beginning of D2, and then you voted BM because why? Just because all of us were saying it was BM?
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:54 pm
by ben dover123
Something about the line of thought in the above post feels wrong
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:57 pm
by Rockhopper
No. To be more precise,
{BM, Chumbo}
{BM, Lavar}
{Lavar Chumbo}
were my final solves after Lunar's flip.
I explained why I thought Chumbo was independently scummy D1, but the third pair made little sense which implied a higher chance of scum!BM.
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:10 pm
by ben dover123
In post 1361, Rockhopper wrote:No. To be more precise,
{BM, Chumbo}
{BM, Lavar}
{Lavar Chumbo}
were my final solves after Lunar's flip.
I explained why I thought Chumbo was independently scummy D1, but the third pair made little sense which implied a higher chance of scum!BM.
Like I get this but there isn't much reasoning to vote Chumbo in the first place after Lunar's flip if this is your thought process...
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:16 pm
by Rockhopper
I didn't give it much thought.
BM wasn't in my PoE the previous day and I thought I had to be right about at least one slot in {Lunar, Chumbo}
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:20 pm
by ben dover123
In post 1363, Rockhopper wrote:I didn't give it much thought.
BM wasn't in my PoE the previous day and I thought I had to be right about at least one slot in {Lunar, Chumbo}
. . .
tbh with a hang PoE of {Lavar, Rock} we win either way but I want to be accurate here. Both of these players are weird: Lavar had a really towny start and now is just really scummy, Rock had a scummy start but his responses here are actually kind of towny. smh
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:26 pm
by Rockhopper
In post 1340, Rockhopper wrote:
I do want us to analyze {Chumbo, Lavar, Lone} better before my elim.
In post 1340, Rockhopper wrote:
I do want us to analyze {Chumbo, Lavar, Lone} better before my elim.
Lone is very town in my eyes, Chumbo is town based on interactions before BM's flip.
Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:49 pm
by LoneMarkhor
It is either rock or lavar.Eliminate one today one tomorrow and we win.
Though I also think rock's responses are town somewhat but there is only one way to find out the truth. VOTE: Rockhopper
Attention:E-1
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:31 am
by ben dover123
In post 1367, LoneMarkhor wrote:It is either rock or lavar.Eliminate one today one tomorrow and we win.
Though I also think rock's responses are town somewhat but there is only one way to find out the truth. VOTE: Rockhopper
Attention:E-1
If Lavar hammers he is confscum. Chumbo, don't hammer please.
Incorrect, and it would be helpful if you gave reasoning.
In post 180, Pragdoid wrote:I'm sorry about my inactivity, I wasn't expecting the game to move as quickly as it has. And from my pov the game started wednesday night, so I didn't think missing 1 full day would be as detrimental as it has been.
I am going to do a full re-read tomorrow morning, but my preliminary reads are that Ben and Chumbo are the most likely town, based on Ben's proactiveness and well thought out reasoning, as well as his change of stance on Chumbo. My view on Chumbo is similar to his, I think he was genuine in his read of Ben. Trendall I could go either way on. clidd gives a a bit of a scumread, but this is entirely based on gut alone. Everyone else hasn't posted enough to get any kind of read on.
I will do my best to get back to anyone's questions tonight if they ask any, but with the weekend here I should be more active.
That's most probably a scum stance IMO. It's just a reflection of the consensus with lazy reasoning.
clidd is first mafia on the basis that he supposed loves to use meta, but didn't check back to see if this is just something I commonly do and instead thinks it's like a generalised 'tell'. These two lines of thinking aren't compatible with each other so mafia.
VOTE: clidd
I don't think there is a tell for "hello" that confirms that someone is a mafia.
And I feel like you're doing mental gymnastics by assuming that I "love" using meta (I never said I do, only that I used it in the past often), as well as ignoring the context of me being away from the site and the influence that would have in the way I'm playing.
Honestly your earlier interactions with Trendall only strengthens my slight scumread on you. In this series of interactions you claim that there is a tell for "hello" without a vote, he responds with what looked like an omgus vote to me, and then you contradict yourself with your response, claiming that you don't think there is a tell for "hello". So which is it? I need to re-read the thread completely when I have a clearer head, but this seems disingenuous to me. Also, your take on Trendall saying "first mafia" seemed like you were grasping at straws.
It's also pretty scummy to automatically equate contradictions to scumminess. The same argument holds true for a major portion of RVS votes, so if the SR did stem from here, it reinforces my read.
This is bad logic, but I don't think it is an automatic tell by itself.
In post 335, Rockhopper wrote:
Sure, bad reads != scummy in a vacuum, but my readlist in the previous page should appear to be obv!scum to any towny reading it. I state my opinion on how I think it's scummy to go along with the consensus, and immediately proceed to make a polarizing readlist with the most unsubstantiated garbage reads. That should look like maf trying not to contradict themselves while failing to give good reasoning in this context, and the fact that you didn't notice this points to you being scum more often than not due to TMI.
In post 336, ben dover123 wrote:Woah, woah, woah, watch where you swing that TMI hammer around my dude.
In post 304, Rockhopper wrote:Town - {BM, bend, clidd, Trendall, NAJON}
Scum- {Lavar}
This are just bad reads. How many times do I have to say that bad reads =/= you are scum. Also why the actual f*** would you purposely make bad reads. That makes absolutely no sense from a towny perspective.
Seems a bit out of proportion. I did say that I only had a scumlean. VOTE: bendover123
In post 336, ben dover123 wrote:Also why the actual f*** would you purposely make bad reads. That makes absolutely no sense from a towny perspective.
Why not? And how does that matter as a response to my read?
Back and forth between me and Rock. I'll show my meta research on Rock to see whether this is classic town Rock behavior or if this is something weird.
I hardly accept AtE but don't you guys think that this is a bit of a stretch for Rock? (Rock has never had a scum game before)
In post 1057, Rockhopper wrote:It seems unnecessary for scum!him to risk it and ruin his image (he was thought to be pretty towny, this would be perceived poorly) for a very unlikely VI hammer.
I would also expect scum!him to come up with some excuse in case he did decide to take this route.
This attempt at sorting Lavar's alignment gives me townpings.
D2 was already analyzed and Rock replied, so no need to put D2 here.
Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:41 pm
by Chumbo
I've looked at everyone's ISO multiple times along with some old games of Lavar and Rock. I'm not exactly sure how to use meta like this, but things seem off. It's one or the other, I'm just not sure which.
So basically, nothings changed with my thoughts.
Things have gotten stagnant here.
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:24 am
by LoneMarkhor
So what do we do now?
I don't think we are gonna get anything by wasting time.The best way is to eliminate rock so we win.Or otherwise it has to be Lavar.I am really sure.So somebody should vote.
Back and forth between me and Rock. I'll show my meta research on Rock to see whether this is classic town Rock behavior or if this is something weird.