Mafiascum.net

In post 267, Titus wrote:Ok. I realized my error and read deeper. I think that we should look at two phases with different leaders. People good at townblocking should lead at assigning artifacts. Those good at scumhunting should lead bronzing. These are separate people. I'd defer to Tammy on the artifact (assuming she's town) and LLD (same assumption) leading the afternoon phase. It's harder to scumhunt here without pressure.

Catching up.

This seems really off here.

I guess what I am having trouble jiving is if Titus had issue with the mechanics why not say so here? Or do her mechanics diving.

Like she’s still insisting on LLD lying despite having proof that PTs exist (more so than just scums likely PT) because of an artifact. Like I know I was trying at some point to obfuscate it but I mean at some point you just gotta give the jig up when it’s obvious and no scum is gonna buy any crazy theory about LLD not being a mason. If LLD wasn’t a mason then she would possibly get counterclaimed.

I think Titus’s reads are kinda scum driven hoping I get into paranoia mode same with Mastina trying to sell Prism scum.

She’s instead asking about flavor instead of mechanics that’s off for her.

And if she is town her voting town me and not looking for a scumread is horrible.

Titus:

You've been way too caught up with seeing only the worst of MathBlade this game, patronizing him even as he makes novel and interesting contributions to the game. You've been obsessed over the page count, and how it prevents you from playing, when it really doesn't have to be that way. You've let your bias against LLD convince you that she's spent the entire game shutting down others and shutting out voices, when in reality she has taken a major backseat and has been eager to lift up and encourage other players when needed.

All three of these things-seeing only the worst in Math, cynicism at the page limit, and strong bias against LLD-have combined to create a really insidious divorce from the reality of the game that makes it difficult to tell the difference between demotivation/cynicism and malice. Your posts aren't awful, your reads in my book are eh, but so are mine. The game is not lost, though, and assuming it is lost, unplayable, etc. is your worst enemy right now.

In post 1349, Titus wrote:I might be depressed.

Don't be surprised if I don't post tomorrow. I'm trying to sort that out.

X post all games.

Okay, my previous post was made before this, I hope you feel better and I hope you can take a step back and recenter.

In post 1352, Prism wrote:

In post 1349, Titus wrote:I might be depressed.

Don't be surprised if I don't post tomorrow. I'm trying to sort that out.

X post all games.

Okay, my previous post was made before this, I hope you feel better and I hope you can take a step back and recenter.

Ditto mine too.

<3 Deploying hugs.

In post 1346, Prism wrote:sangres, if it isn't obvious I honestly have no fucking clue who is scum this game, suggestions are welcome, looks like you kind of concur on Titus but do you have any others? iirc you also scumread Dunn for that weird ass interaction with us

Titus in general has been a delusional/cynical mess all game long, so I agree with you, there's just one or two posts that give me doubt.

I don't have a solve, and i'd be shocked if I did. My playstyle usually is more about townreads/POE, but I occasionally do get strong scumreads.

Titus moonlogic used to be a thing. I don't know if it still is. She wasn't totally off the deep end with her reads in the Tenet game IIRC, but we weren't in the same thread and I didn't pay as much attention to her as I would have if we could interact more directly. But, her moonlogic used to annoy me, not immediately make me think she was scum in most of the games I recall. I can't even call this moonlogic, really. I think some of what she posts is manufactured.

Her post about the dysfunctional townblock, it seems like we at least agree on some reads, though I don't agree we're in a hopelessly dysfunctional situation atm.

I'm scumreading Titus and Mastina.

I'm POE-ing Battle Mage.

Quiet is in this strange place where I think he's scum, I think he's going to get replaced, and and I think there's a really good chance a strong player could turn that slot around as either alignment and if that happens I sure hope they're town because I'll have trouble holding onto a read based on 8 posts.

I'm probably wrong on at least one of these reads if for no other reason than the size of the game.

Titus wrote:@sangres, Everything flowing isn't how I read you. In fact, one could argue consistency is scummy.

Your position on me has been tunnely nonsense. I get some of the votes on me. Yours, I struggle to see a town perspective on. It feels like a chainsaw from my earlier posting. You never took me head on and said your problem imo but you were perfectly ok to sheep other opinions.

I play conversationally too but if everyone plays conversationally we get a deadline elimination on town. I suck day one (usually) so it's best to let others take charge with such bullshit in place.

The problem is that letting others take charge shouldn't lead to opinions being treated as bullshit or ignored. I felt compelled to reply to this post because this reachout from whichever head is talking feels rather genuine and caused me to reconsider that read.

I agree with the game pace being fine. The problem is it's because slots are silenced. Tammy and mastina have nothing memorable. I can't push on the Prism/Cakez issue because it would take too many posts to pressure the thread and demand that read from Cakez while fending off "confirmed" town. Fighting confirmed town when you suck at day 1, defending yourself takes valuable resources, and you can't get a solid person to sheep is hard. It's hopeless when I can't see who to get to work together.

I'll read through this one more time by Saturday at noon. Then eliminate me or not.

The popularity contest for artifacts encourages the lying for power. Then the post limit creates a tradegy of the commons situation with posting.

Every post I make takes a post from someone else. Players like Math don't get that. He sucks day 1 too and he spams. He doesn't work with others. I think his level of crazy is town this game but I have been burned before.

I guess what I need is hope. I don't see where it is.

This is ffery. If you were reading my posts, you'd know that because I've mentioned a couple times that Nacho's last post was on Monday night and our hydra chat has gone dark since then too, except for a quick explanation and apology for his inability to play right now due to work.

Everything flowing from my wincon is not consistency. In fact it tends to be inconsistent because I react.

A LOT.

to the gamestate changing.

I agree though that consistency can be a scum marker. It's part of what I look for in trajectory analysis.

Your stance on Mathblade looked really opportunistic and just...fake...to me. The idea that you'd townread someone and be willing to write them off so early on day 1 as a liability if they're town anyway is alien. I have run into players who I think are so bad as town that it's probably better to policy them, but it's almost impossible to follow through. If they're town, they're on my team.

I've been reluctant to engage you directly because we have ALWAYS clashed in games. I don't think you have ever played with scum-me. If you did, you'd know that I generally don't do traditionally strategic or tactical stuff as scum, like chainsawing. Or if I do, it's completely accidental because it's not where my focus is at.

This is also why your VCAs never speak to me when I'm town, too, and I wind up yelling at you about them until one of us is dead when you make eliming one of my strongest townreads your entire focus because of your VCA.

See that game where everyone had a post restriction that Serene 2 ran in 2015. Our conflict on AP was intractable. If you could have been reasoned with on that we might have been able to work together on reads where we agreed or where you were correct and I was wrong about another player.

------------

I see your post about depression and I hope some time away helps you feel better.

I considered deleting some of the above because I hate berating people who are in a bad place.

I'm leaving it because if there's any chance of you and I working together effectively in this game or in any future game, understanding where I come from as town and why I'd prefer to just not step into the huge pothole that seems to happen in every game we play together has to be a start. There is no doubt work I need to do to read you better and to play around the stuff you do that is antithetical to how I approach games. It's not like I'm always 100% right, or the final arbiter on how mafia should be played or something.

I wish I could hug you and Prism right now.

Whatever your alignment I needed that as a person that both y’all see I am really trying to improve.

It’s a plus that sangres’s reads mirror mine pretty well.

Prism, I forgot to talk about Dunn.

I feel to some extent like I'm chained to Nacho's and my scumread of Dunn from very early, but I've moved on and personally am not scumreading him now.

I don't know what Nacho will think of the stuff that made me feel better about Dunn being town. I probably won't go all in on that read without a sync.

Afternoon Vote Count 1.09

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (5): Bell, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, Battle Mage, GreyICE
Titus (5): sangres, SirCakez, MathBlade, Kitty Trauma Team, borkjerfkin
SirCakez (3): mastina, Dunnstral, Titus

Not voting (2): Tammy, Prism


Mod notes: 53/85 pages used

In post 1354, sangres wrote:I'm scumreading Titus and Mastina.

I'm POE-ing Battle Mage.

Quiet is in this strange place where I think he's scum, I think he's going to get replaced, and and I think there's a really good chance a strong player could turn that slot around as either alignment and if that happens I sure hope they're town because I'll have trouble holding onto a read based on 8 posts.

I'm scumreading Battle Mage

I think quiet has a real decent chance of being scum just based on meta other people brought up about them being a new player and activity

Titus is sort of scummy but IDK

Mastina is neutral

There’s a lot of mildly suspicious slots (like you) that REALLY don’t want to go Titus, or won’t discuss why they don’t want to elim Titus other than IDK despite noting her scumminess, but are a-okay voting elsewhere, so that means we go Titus.

I believe that was your argument in 829 to have me voted.
Please explain to me why you’re not voting Titus and why you think this applies to me but not Titus.
Please also explain if Titus flips red why you’re not scum with her.

Kinda thinking Titus / Dunn / BM / Mastina / Quiet << All scum in there in priority order.

Greetings Gentlebeings!

I am almost caught up on grading and actually no longer paying the sleep gods for the weekend deficit I incurred, both of which have me in a really good mood.

I'm sorry you're feeling depressed Titus. <3 Depression and mafia don't mix well. i know.

Anyway, I'm feeling a lot better about Kitty. No longer in wait and see mode there I don't think. I've liked mala's recent posts quite a lot and really like the way that she was looking at and analyzing the morning.

Think I see a reason that pooky is probably town? Maybe?

I do not know on Titus. I do think she's scummy, but I don't know if it just Titus doing things I don't like or understand which would be on brand or if it's Titus being scum. I still do not like the way Titus is interacting with and around Mathblade, and that feels off, and complaining about not being able to scum hunt with constrained pages feels off too. We have 30 pages left to go, so that feels off. With Math it's just uh yeah I get policying people. I've happily policied people before who were actively behaving in detrimental ways to the town, and I don't get that with Math. So, it just feels odd. I get taking a more pragmatic approach, like this game is getting polarized about the math situation and the people who scum read him probably aren't going to stop, so might be best to remove the distraction so that town can focus, which is where I find myself a lot of the time and there yet because I think we can find scum instead.

I wish that spiffeh was talking about someone other than just dunn. Who I'm also unsure on.

Think my biggest suspects right now are battle mage and unquiet though.

You'll have more of my attention once my work is done and I get back home, so stay tuned for the next installment of Tammy's Day One Mediocre Thoughts.

pedit: oh yeah forgot about mastina. Don't know about her yet either :/

Yeah Tammy, my goal today is to catch up today/tomorrow and talk about non-Dunnstral things.

Dunn is still my desired lim but no one seems to care that much and it's not helpful to keep screaming into the void.

I'll be paying special attention to Titus when I catch up as I had mixed feelings about her and she seems to be the only counter wagon to obvtown MathBlade at this point.

Tammy, there is no distraction.

I just have been on defense and building a town block all day while likely delivering multiple scum in Titus and BM.
Spiffeh and I agree it’s likely Dunn as well.

You agree on Battle Mage and Quiet being possible scum.

The only reason I am even still a wagon on death’s door is that LLD is not wanting to see I can be good town. Pooky said he’s sheeping LLD so there’s two votes. Battle Mage is scum three votes and the way he did it was bad. And GreyICE is well Grey and he respects my scum game but that’s admittedly all his vote is per his words of “You manipulated me onto Mastina” (paraphrase)

If we still have a game after those 5 are dead then I would go Grey but more than likely Grey is just being Grey here and it’s a personality/respect thing.

Pedit: Spiffeh I do want Dunn especially if Titus is red but Titus is a really good way to prove Dunn scum (see prior post for a few examples)

Where is this idea that Mathblade is a policy yeet come from?

Math is a scum read and is perpetuating that thing to try and save himself. Nowhere did anyone call math a policy vote but himself.

Math is scum. It's not a vote this townie because they aren't helpful.

In post 524, Titus wrote:What is Math doing that helps him survive? I am moderately TRing him and even I am considering a policy elimination.

@LLD here’s an example. There’s plenty more in thread.

*sigh* LLD sometimes you’re just wrong. Why do you think I am scum? Like elaborate, because besides scumreads and Bell you’re the only one. Bell I don’t think has seen town me so he’s predisposed to scumreading me so I get him. Pooky is just sheep the outed mason. And you really really can’t see why I do what I am doing and that I am the Spooky big bad then you really need to explain or try to read between the lines here.

Not only have I stopped several IMHO TvT wagons at a detriment to my own survival I think we finally have a scum wagon here that blows the game open.

Who would I be scum with? You really need to sit down and think and case me if you honestly believe it. Because I don’t think you do or you have deluded yourself into thinking you do.

For example why would I beg Prism to fight me? That seems really odd if I am scum. That seems detrimental to your whole point of me being survivalistic no?

Find me another example. One I posted. Since you use my name so much.

Go.

Now.

Do it.

In post 1366, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Where is this idea that Mathblade is a policy yeet come from?

Math is a scum read and is perpetuating that thing to try and save himself. Nowhere did anyone call math a policy vote but himself.

Math is scum. It's not a vote this townie because they aren't helpful.

Titus has repeatedly characterized it as policy. Which is a chunk of my reasons for scumreading Titus.



And yeah, there's nothing policy about the wagon to you.

Also I don't need to case you?

Lmfao

What is this logic

Why do I need to case anyone? Especially for the person I am scumrrading?

And even here, she's calling all the non-Cakez wagons "policy".

That bit was my commentary, not the original post.

In post 74, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:

In post 70, MathBlade wrote:

In post 65, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:What no quick response to that one Math?

Have to talk to your scum QT about the implications of it first?

I am playing Shadowrun while typing here. I will be necessarily slow. This is not an IRC chat. Slower is better.

Yeah except you were able to respond to the easier points I made within 2 minutes.

And that one took you a tick. Besides, once you're engaged in a conversation I doubt you drop it like that. The spacing of the posts being incongruent is a minor thing, but you taking the time to RESPOND TO IT LIKE THIS

Well that's a much more major tell~

You don’t say the word policy but here you are saying because I don’t meet a policy in your head of how fast I should respond I am scum.

You’ve had it out for me since the start of the game. This is either a predetermined bias because you think I suck something you have explicitly told me or you’re tunneled.

Casing me helps you see that and see your I am trying to deflect the elim point as invalid when there’s a certain image that really disproves it that I think you can find.

In post 1371, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Also I don't need to case you?

Lmfao

What is this logic

Why do I need to case anyone? Especially for the person I am scumrrading?

If you want me to be the elim you’re going to need to because quite frankly I am obvTown here LLD.