In post 12151, MalcolmTucker wrote:To add to the above - I also tend to be a pretty easy miselimination target when I am town for the most part. If you look through my past history I am often eliminated as town somewhere between three or five days into the game. I tend to be a somewhat hedgy player in how I approach things and once the gamestate reaches a point where I'm not necessarily obvious town based on pushes or voting, I become a useful target when the town struggles to consolidate, perhaps because I'm generally not a town leader type as such. If that's an approach the town wants to take here, fair enough, but it isn't an approach that's going to actually find you scum.
Referring to my previous towncase last turn as well - I feel like this is particularly pertinent given Pooky's vote on me despite their preference for eliminating Rad.
I tend to try and stay relatively calm during games but will be immensely frustrated if my elimination as town here is partially caused by scum basically annoying some townies into giving them another day. I am not scum here and I've presented what I think is a solid and robust case as to why I'm not.
What even is the actual case against me anyway? For the most part beyond one or two people who genuinely suspect me I feel as if it boils down to vibes since I'm not officially cleared yet. It feels a bit like the recurring case against BBT earlier in the game - when it came to actually presenting proper evidence for why BBT was scum nobody was really able to do so.
So yeah, basically a plea not to eliminate me when I'm town and when it's increasingly obvious to me the counter to my own wagon is scum.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:43 am
by MalcolmTucker
Also re last turn - I feel like Rad's positioning on Mala looks a lot worse in retrospect. I was still a viable elimination for much of the turn but Rad moved away from me and onto Mala, and then was pretty comfortable there. This is despite Rad's constant scumread on me and the fact that I was still actually a viable elimination for most of the last turn. What's Rad motivation to move off me here if they're town? It makes much more sense from the POV of scum who was simply looking for the easiest and quickest town elimination.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:58 am
by catboi
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:05 am
by Rad
In post 13670, MalcolmTucker wrote:Rad continually tries to convince Pooky they're being unreasonable for a solid read, Pooky then suddenly changes their vote and Rad gets all nice and apologetic suddenly. Obvious scum, eliminate this slot.
Lol this ignores any and all emotion that went into that exchange before the vote shift as well as the emotion behind the vote shift and instead just paints me to be some scum who feels bad for pushing poor town!pooky too far. Malcolm consistently for the past month has been incapable of interpreting anything I do as anything but scum motivated with a scum agenda.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:11 am
by Rad
In post 13676, MalcolmTucker wrote:Also re last turn - I feel like Rad's positioning on Mala looks a lot worse in retrospect. I was still a viable elimination for much of the turn but Rad moved away from me and onto Mala, and then was pretty comfortable there. This is despite Rad's constant scumread on me and the fact that I was still actually a viable elimination for most of the last turn. What's Rad motivation to move off me here if they're town? It makes much more sense from the POV of scum who was simply looking for the easiest and quickest town elimination.
My motivation was getting a flip on 1 of the 2 slots I scum read and moving the game forward. I had also considered, again, that you and me could be conf biased TvT but saw absolutely no reason to believe mala was town.
In post 13670, MalcolmTucker wrote:Rad continually tries to convince Pooky they're being unreasonable for a solid read, Pooky then suddenly changes their vote and Rad gets all nice and apologetic suddenly. Obvious scum, eliminate this slot.
Lol this ignores any and all emotion that went into that exchange before the vote shift as well as the emotion behind the vote shift and instead just paints me to be some scum who feels bad for pushing poor town!pooky too far.
Malcolm consistently for the past month has been incapable of interpreting anything I do as anything but scum motivated with a scum agenda.
This is again a complete fabrication. I TR'd you for most of D1, I then moved to scumreading you, I gradually moved back to town and then later consolidated on you as being likely scum again. Your argument that I have relentlessly pushed your slot to the point where I refuse to countenance the possibility you're town is a genuine lie and other players should be paying attention to that. I've told you this is a lie on multiple occasions now and yet you constantly repeat it in an attempt to make me look unreasonable.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:15 am
by MalcolmTucker
In post 11960, Rad wrote:Well we can hang out together on the malcolm wagon and mala can check his dead red corpse tonight to tell us what he was
2313 - Math just points out corwin's push on frog and asks if it was ever explained 2459 - responds to some joke mala said 2468 - Mala with some NAI claim that math could be scum cause he was scum a couple times before in a replace and Math responding seriously to it 2480 - More nonsense argument about something that's NAI 2570 - friendly banter 3516 - Mala calling BBT a baddie and Math pretending to be angered by it 3540 - Math urges Mala to make a case on Taly instead of Mala just talking about maybe voting Taly (which is actually townie of Math so he should say this regardless of mala's alignment to look townie) 3684 - If Mala flips red, this is Math pushing distance between Corwin and Mala claiming Corwin is attacking both Frog and Mala. 5359 - Calls Mala probably town 5363 - Wants people to vote one of Mala, Frog, Taly, Dunn. He pushes this for a while.
So my takeaway:
- Mostly just NAI banter and soft interactions
- No hard pushing on or supporting of Mala. The push on 4 people later includes Mala because Mala's a top wagon.
- Nothing that jumps out as clearing Mala, and nothing jumps out as damning Mala either
In post 11968, Rad wrote:yeah fuck it. Month long meta switch or just scum?
VOTE: Mala
Yeah you're blatantly lying again here to save your skin. The first two posts here are clearly positioned from a POV where Mala was potential town even if you were uncertain. Then when you decide Mala is the best elimination your vote suddenly goes there. You weren't scumhunting - you were just positioning yourself for the easiest vote.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:16 am
by Rad
How about this Malcolm.
Just about everything I do, the large majority, most of what I do, Malcolm interprets as scum motivated with a scum agenda.
Just about everything I do, the large majority, most of what I do, Malcolm interprets as scum motivated with a scum agenda.
Again you do this thing constantly where you shade other players for scumreading you when they make fair points to make them look inherently unreasonable, tunnelled or biased instead of actually engaging with the point they're making, because when your play is assessed it's likely that you are scum.
The goal of mafia is to find scum. Part of that involves looking at players and uncovering reasons as to why they could potentially come back as scum. When you suspect a player as scum it's therefore natural you're going to find the motivations behind their play as scummy. This exact argument could apply to your read of me, no? Unless your read on me isn't actually that concrete because you fundamentally know I'm town.
2313 - Math just points out corwin's push on frog and asks if it was ever explained 2459 - responds to some joke mala said 2468 - Mala with some NAI claim that math could be scum cause he was scum a couple times before in a replace and Math responding seriously to it 2480 - More nonsense argument about something that's NAI 2570 - friendly banter 3516 - Mala calling BBT a baddie and Math pretending to be angered by it 3540 - Math urges Mala to make a case on Taly instead of Mala just talking about maybe voting Taly (which is actually townie of Math so he should say this regardless of mala's alignment to look townie) 3684 - If Mala flips red, this is Math pushing distance between Corwin and Mala claiming Corwin is attacking both Frog and Mala. 5359 - Calls Mala probably town 5363 - Wants people to vote one of Mala, Frog, Taly, Dunn. He pushes this for a while.
So my takeaway:
- Mostly just NAI banter and soft interactions
- No hard pushing on or supporting of Mala. The push on 4 people later includes Mala because Mala's a top wagon.
- Nothing that jumps out as clearing Mala, and nothing jumps out as damning Mala either
In post 11968, Rad wrote:yeah fuck it. Month long meta switch or just scum?
VOTE: Mala
Yeah you're blatantly lying again here to save your skin. The first two posts here are clearly positioned from a POV where Mala was potential town even if you were uncertain. Then when you decide Mala is the best elimination your vote suddenly goes there. You weren't scumhunting - you were just positioning yourself for the easiest vote.
In post 5311, Rad wrote:Yo nancy if you're town, we just don't pay nicely together. You don't understand me, I don't understand you, and we're both getting scummy reads from it. Let's just back off each other ok? I read your past town games and you focus so hard on anyone who thinks you're scum that I know I'm walking into a town death land mine discussing anything with you. How about I point out stuff I find strange about you, you point out stuff you find strange about me, and we let other people sort us out? Deal?
This feels like an odd post. It's as if Rad wants to back off from earlier Puppets reads/interactions a bit but wants to articulate a reason for doing so that seems overly townie on the off-chance anyone calls them out about it.
Malcolm, do you feel like you might read into things too much? Just curious if you've run through that sort of introspection. Cause town!Malcolm is reading into it too much and just inherently disbelieving me at every turn. I couldn't help but read you scummy for it before until I got a chance to read your ISO and see how consistent you are with it.
town!Rad is pointing out that town!Malcolm is overthinking things, because that's literally the case if Malcolm is town.
Could scum!Rad be trying to AtE town!Malcolm? Sure.
Could town!Rad be missing scum!Malcolm pushing more shade? Sure.
I think it's town!Malcolm here and I'm trying to reason with him. Fucking vote me if you think I'm scum already.
Again this feels like a post where you're just frustrated at being suspected because until now you'd been widely TR'd. DP is correctly pointing out that criticising a player for overthinking things is an odd approach to take when playing mafia.
I've not voted for you because I'm personally more confident on Johnny coming back as scum and because Johnny is a more viable wagon - I doubt people would be willing to vote you out and no point in starting a complete vanity wagon at this point in the day.
Dude I'm not criticizing you. I'm pointing out what town!Malcolm is doing right now. Assume I'm town!Rad for a moment instead of some sneaky scum!Rad. Is that not what town!Rad's doing?
This has been Rad's approach for most of the game so far. Whenever suspicion is directed towards them they immediately start trying to pad it off by suggesting the person scumreading them is looking into things too much instead of actually engaging with the argument being put forward. This, again, ignores that town is uninformed and part of the game is coming up with theories and reasons as to why other players could be scum. The point Rad is making could literally be put to any townie who is coming up with reads and views while being uninformed.
Note how Rad TR's me at this point as well. My play since then hasn't changed substantially but Rad gradually altered their read of me because it was more convenient to scumread someone suspecting them in case it ended up being helpful down the line. Rad knows I'm not scum here and so initially wants to bargain with me and convince me I'm misguided town; when that doesn't work their approach grows more confrontational.
They floated this in earlier turns with players like Luke and Pooky - Rad wouldn't outright suspect either because both slots are obvious town but they'd always throw in little "what if" suggestions on the off-chance some townies might buy it. Rad's team eliminated Luke because they perceived Luke as a threat and now Rad is working to get rid of another townie who thinks they are scum. This is just so painfully transparent at this point and the town shouldn't fall for it.
2313 - Math just points out corwin's push on frog and asks if it was ever explained 2459 - responds to some joke mala said 2468 - Mala with some NAI claim that math could be scum cause he was scum a couple times before in a replace and Math responding seriously to it 2480 - More nonsense argument about something that's NAI 2570 - friendly banter 3516 - Mala calling BBT a baddie and Math pretending to be angered by it 3540 - Math urges Mala to make a case on Taly instead of Mala just talking about maybe voting Taly (which is actually townie of Math so he should say this regardless of mala's alignment to look townie) 3684 - If Mala flips red, this is Math pushing distance between Corwin and Mala claiming Corwin is attacking both Frog and Mala. 5359 - Calls Mala probably town 5363 - Wants people to vote one of Mala, Frog, Taly, Dunn. He pushes this for a while.
So my takeaway:
- Mostly just NAI banter and soft interactions
- No hard pushing on or supporting of Mala. The push on 4 people later includes Mala because Mala's a top wagon.
- Nothing that jumps out as clearing Mala, and nothing jumps out as damning Mala either
In post 11968, Rad wrote:yeah fuck it. Month long meta switch or just scum?
VOTE: Mala
Yeah you're blatantly lying again here to save your skin. The first two posts here are clearly positioned from a POV where Mala was potential town even if you were uncertain. Then when you decide Mala is the best elimination your vote suddenly goes there. You weren't scumhunting - you were just positioning yourself for the easiest vote.
It's a clever post and works well as a potential case for Mala - only we know Mala was not scum, so in retrospect why should I not believe this was constructed by scum to find a reason to vote out Mala? Scum who felt Mala was a good elimination would want to find a reason to justify why they have gone onto a wagon that was going to end up being town. The goal of scum is to convince town they are townie and a well thought-out case that ends up being wrong is something that can come from a scum MO.
Just about everything I do, the large majority, most of what I do, Malcolm interprets as scum motivated with a scum agenda.
Again you do this thing constantly where you shade other players for scumreading you when they make fair points to make them look inherently unreasonable, tunnelled or biased instead of actually engaging with the point they're making, because when your play is assessed it's likely that you are scum.
The goal of mafia is to find scum. Part of that involves looking at players and uncovering reasons as to why they could potentially come back as scum. When you suspect a player as scum it's therefore natural you're going to find the motivations behind their play as scummy. This exact argument could apply to your read of me, no? Unless your read on me isn't actually that concrete because you fundamentally know I'm town.
Malcolm, consider I'm town rad here a moment and I'll speak to you like you're town Malcolm, k? Everything you're saying about me is wrong. Nothing I'm doing is scum motivated. And most of your reads on me focus on me being scum with scum motivation. That's not town rad shading you, that's town rad pointing out that you're wrong because you are. You take just about every action and apply the scum angle to it. It's so consistent that it's maddening. Again you're either conf biased town here or scum, there's no other option from my perspective.
Nothing changed so much as the thought expressed was incomplete. I limited it to two names for tactical reasons, but Rad was also a major contender for the elimination and equally implicated by wagon dynamics. I would be surprised if {Mala, Malcolm, Rad} did not have a scum.
~Cytosine
Just about everything I do, the large majority, most of what I do, Malcolm interprets as scum motivated with a scum agenda.
Again you do this thing constantly where you shade other players for scumreading you when they make fair points to make them look inherently unreasonable, tunnelled or biased instead of actually engaging with the point they're making, because when your play is assessed it's likely that you are scum.
The goal of mafia is to find scum. Part of that involves looking at players and uncovering reasons as to why they could potentially come back as scum. When you suspect a player as scum it's therefore natural you're going to find the motivations behind their play as scummy. This exact argument could apply to your read of me, no? Unless your read on me isn't actually that concrete because you fundamentally know I'm town.
Malcolm, consider I'm town rad here a moment and I'll speak to you like you're town Malcolm, k?
Everything you're saying about me is wrong. Nothing I'm doing is scum motivated. And most of your reads on me focus on me being scum with scum motivation.
That's not town rad shading you, that's town rad pointing out that you're wrong because you are. You take just about every action and apply the scum angle to it. It's so consistent that it's maddening. Again you're either conf biased town here or scum, there's no other option from my perspective.
Again though this could apply to literally any player in the game. Scum lie, that is literally the point.
From my POV as a townie my town neighbour who strongly TR'd me has died and the main counter to my wagon (being town) is someone I have suspected for most of the game and who had the perfect motive to eliminate Luke.
Your argument here that we could still both be town looks like a hint towards a compromise elimination, but there are a couple of problems with that solution:
1. It's literally what we did last turn and we were wrong.
2. You are aggressively pushing for my elimination anyway.
Why am I expected to be reasonable and townread you simply on your word when you consistently push for me to be eliminated from the game?
Consider you're willing to compromise on someone else here - where do you plan to vote? And if you're still willing to consider me as biased town, why aren't you pushing anywhere else? To me the answer is quite simple - you're scum and I'm the most viable elimination so you're going for me.
2313 - Math just points out corwin's push on frog and asks if it was ever explained 2459 - responds to some joke mala said 2468 - Mala with some NAI claim that math could be scum cause he was scum a couple times before in a replace and Math responding seriously to it 2480 - More nonsense argument about something that's NAI 2570 - friendly banter 3516 - Mala calling BBT a baddie and Math pretending to be angered by it 3540 - Math urges Mala to make a case on Taly instead of Mala just talking about maybe voting Taly (which is actually townie of Math so he should say this regardless of mala's alignment to look townie) 3684 - If Mala flips red, this is Math pushing distance between Corwin and Mala claiming Corwin is attacking both Frog and Mala. 5359 - Calls Mala probably town 5363 - Wants people to vote one of Mala, Frog, Taly, Dunn. He pushes this for a while.
So my takeaway:
- Mostly just NAI banter and soft interactions
- No hard pushing on or supporting of Mala. The push on 4 people later includes Mala because Mala's a top wagon.
- Nothing that jumps out as clearing Mala, and nothing jumps out as damning Mala either
In post 11968, Rad wrote:yeah fuck it. Month long meta switch or just scum?
VOTE: Mala
Yeah you're blatantly lying again here to save your skin. The first two posts here are clearly positioned from a POV where Mala was potential town even if you were uncertain. Then when you decide Mala is the best elimination your vote suddenly goes there. You weren't scumhunting - you were just positioning yourself for the easiest vote.
It's a clever post and works well as a potential case for Mala - only we know Mala was not scum, so in retrospect why should I not believe this was constructed by scum to find a reason to vote out Mala? Scum who felt Mala was a good elimination would want to find a reason to justify why they have gone onto a wagon that was going to end up being town. The goal of scum is to convince town they are townie and a well thought-out case that ends up being wrong is something that can come from a scum MO.
I dunno, maybe you could attempt to apply a town angle on something I've done instead of just assume it's scum motivated?
Can you fathom this post and thought process coming from town!Rad?
Nothing changed so much as the thought expressed was incomplete. I limited it to two names for tactical reasons, but Rad was also a major contender for the elimination and equally implicated by wagon dynamics. I would be surprised if {Mala, Malcolm, Rad} did not have a scum.
~Cytosine
Consider the positioning on Mala's wagon last turn.
I was a major candidate for elimination but never pushed Mala all that strongly even though it'd have been in my interests to do so as scum. Because despite some uncertainty I was never all that convinced Mala was scum and didn't want to deceive the town by fabricating a case on them even though I was willing to fight for my place in the game.
Rad was initially uncertain on the slot but then came up with a convenient argument as to why Mala was scum which we now know in retrospect was wrong.
2313 - Math just points out corwin's push on frog and asks if it was ever explained 2459 - responds to some joke mala said 2468 - Mala with some NAI claim that math could be scum cause he was scum a couple times before in a replace and Math responding seriously to it 2480 - More nonsense argument about something that's NAI 2570 - friendly banter 3516 - Mala calling BBT a baddie and Math pretending to be angered by it 3540 - Math urges Mala to make a case on Taly instead of Mala just talking about maybe voting Taly (which is actually townie of Math so he should say this regardless of mala's alignment to look townie) 3684 - If Mala flips red, this is Math pushing distance between Corwin and Mala claiming Corwin is attacking both Frog and Mala. 5359 - Calls Mala probably town 5363 - Wants people to vote one of Mala, Frog, Taly, Dunn. He pushes this for a while.
So my takeaway:
- Mostly just NAI banter and soft interactions
- No hard pushing on or supporting of Mala. The push on 4 people later includes Mala because Mala's a top wagon.
- Nothing that jumps out as clearing Mala, and nothing jumps out as damning Mala either
In post 11968, Rad wrote:yeah fuck it. Month long meta switch or just scum?
VOTE: Mala
Yeah you're blatantly lying again here to save your skin. The first two posts here are clearly positioned from a POV where Mala was potential town even if you were uncertain. Then when you decide Mala is the best elimination your vote suddenly goes there. You weren't scumhunting - you were just positioning yourself for the easiest vote.
It's a clever post and works well as a potential case for Mala - only we know Mala was not scum, so in retrospect why should I not believe this was constructed by scum to find a reason to vote out Mala? Scum who felt Mala was a good elimination would want to find a reason to justify why they have gone onto a wagon that was going to end up being town. The goal of scum is to convince town they are townie and a well thought-out case that ends up being wrong is something that can come from a scum MO.
I dunno, maybe you could attempt to apply a town angle on something I've done instead of just assume it's scum motivated?
Can you fathom this post and thought process coming from town!Rad?
I've outlined above why this is a flawed argument, and anyway it's a complete and utter lie - I've TR'd you at various points in the game. And anyway, why don't you apply the same leeway to me when you expect it for yourself?
Just about everything I do, the large majority, most of what I do, Malcolm interprets as scum motivated with a scum agenda.
Again you do this thing constantly where you shade other players for scumreading you when they make fair points to make them look inherently unreasonable, tunnelled or biased instead of actually engaging with the point they're making, because when your play is assessed it's likely that you are scum.
The goal of mafia is to find scum. Part of that involves looking at players and uncovering reasons as to why they could potentially come back as scum. When you suspect a player as scum it's therefore natural you're going to find the motivations behind their play as scummy. This exact argument could apply to your read of me, no? Unless your read on me isn't actually that concrete because you fundamentally know I'm town.
Malcolm, consider I'm town rad here a moment and I'll speak to you like you're town Malcolm, k?
Everything you're saying about me is wrong. Nothing I'm doing is scum motivated. And most of your reads on me focus on me being scum with scum motivation.
That's not town rad shading you, that's town rad pointing out that you're wrong because you are. You take just about every action and apply the scum angle to it. It's so consistent that it's maddening. Again you're either conf biased town here or scum, there's no other option from my perspective.
Again though this could apply to literally any player in the game. Scum lie, that is literally the point.
From my POV as a townie my town neighbour who strongly TR'd me has died and the main counter to my wagon (being town) is someone I have suspected for most of the game and who had the perfect motive to eliminate Luke.
Your argument here that we could still both be town looks like a hint towards a compromise elimination, but there are a couple of problems with that solution:
1. It's literally what we did last turn and we were wrong.
2. You are aggressively pushing for my elimination anyway.
Why am I expected to be reasonable and townread you simply on your word when you consistently push for me to be eliminated from the game?
Consider you're willing to compromise on someone else here - where do you plan to vote? And if you're still willing to consider me as biased town, why aren't you pushing anywhere else? To me the answer is quite simple - you're scum and I'm the most viable elimination so you're going for me.
Nono, I don't mean "let's just TR each other from now on", I meant for the sake of understanding why I might be coming across as shading you left and right, consider everything that's gone on as from town!Rad's perspective. Everything you've said about me and my actions, consider why town!Rad might have issue with that.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:41 am
by MalcolmTucker
In post 431, MalcolmTucker wrote:I think Dunn is town so far. I agree with them that the early wagon on Cephir isn't particularly useful, and I'm not sure I like how quickly a lot of votes mounted up on said wagon, jokey or not.
I reckon Luke and Rad is probably TvT. I don't agree with Rad on the read but they are making a genuine effort to solve early on even if their conclusions aren't necessarily correct. Attempts to drive the game forward earn townpoints from me and Luke doesn't strike me as the type of player to go after if you're scum wanting to appear busy.
I'm not convinced Frogster is town though, potential scum slot.
In post 3015, MalcolmTucker wrote:My strong TR on Rad from earlier in the game has softened significantly. Perhaps it's due to my SR on Dancing Puppets softening as the game goes on, but I thought Rad's post there was particularly weak.
I understand there's not always a clear direction of thought registered in the thread when your take on a player shifts, but Rad's game for me has largely been logic-driven to a degree and it's interesting they got very defensive when they were unable to point out exactly why they were scumreading Puppets.
In general I don't think Rad's posts over the past couple of days have been as strong as they were initially.
I feel like it's also the type of post that can quite feasibly come from good/experienced scum? A lot of the time you assume scum maybe don't want to draw any attention to what the makeup of their team could be, but in a big game like this making associatives can be hard and I can see scum being more willingly to openly comment on what the scumteam may be like, even if only to misdirect.
In post 2089, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I can see why wagons sprung up, because you would expect someone who clearly has a reputation for being decent at this game to be a leader here, but this game is hard and I don't have much direction either. Yes this could be faked and they're clearly self aware, but i'm tempted to call this slot town.
My problem with Ceph right now is his post 929 where he claims he hasn't even started playing yet.
When will Ceph start playing? Has he started now? Why hadn't he started then?
Clearly Ceph isn't going to be a town leader. By choice. Is that scummy? I dunno but it feels anti-town, as does his post about me at 1493
What do you think of Ceph's 2301? I feel sort of convinced by it.
What do you find particularly convincing? Worth noting my suspicion of Roden didn't come out of nowhere - I'd already been a bit unsure on the slot but their responses to Toad made me feel more confident they could be scum.
The whole post. All his points. Like, not convincing enough to move you from town to scum and vote you right here, but enough to make me want to reread your ISO (which I'll do when I get a chance, either tonight or tomorrow... going to a concert tonight so it'll be late if I do get a chance).
In post 2794, Rad wrote:Some comments I wrote up while catching up.
In post 2383, MalcolmTucker wrote:Re 2368 Johnny - I'd not noticed Frog's posts you're referring to. Understandable reason to leave a SR alone for a while, I get that.
It's also AtE from Johnny to get players off his back.
How was it AtE? Genuinely not seeing it.
In post 2411, Frogsterking wrote:Johnny is well within his right to play this way if he would like to, I just believe it makes him a good candidate to get booted off the island first.
Ok but how does that make him scum?
In post 2571, Malakittens wrote:Me, lukie, the Marci hydra, bbt, maybe pengy (even tho he’s evil and stole my PURRfect page top)
Got it, so whoever reads you as town is most likely not scum. Cause town reads are so reliable. Makes sense.
Re Rad, who I mentioned above I'm softening on TR wise, some of their progressions here I'm not keen on - it feels a bit unnatural and as if their view of certain players flipped entirely without much justification.
For a while they seemed to be agreeing with some of my points and had me down as town. At the same time they were largely scumreading Cephrir and didn't appear to particularly trust the slot. But it didn't take much for them to suddenly agree with Cephrir's scumread of me which led them to doing a bit of a 180.
There'd been some disagreements between Ceph/Roden on Saturday but that faded away a bit once Ceph turned their attention to me - Rad's sudden turn from suspecting Ceph to suspecting me doesn't feel particularly natural and strikes me as somewhat coordinated in light of that, as if they decided I was suddenly a better target from the POV of being scum as my reads developed.
Rad is regularly suggesting I have done nothing but scumread them all game but you only need to look at the early game to know this is a lie.
Rad was one of my strongest TR's for a lot of D1. But as I allude to in the posts above I became less confident of them as town as time went on. I think the evolution of my read here is perfectly natural to be honest. But either way know that when Rad says I am being unreasonable and I'm hyperfixated on the slot it's just a complete lie.
Even when I started to suspect Rad I still voted for Johnny, because Johnny was my primary scumread at the time.
Just about everything I do, the large majority, most of what I do, Malcolm interprets as scum motivated with a scum agenda.
Again you do this thing constantly where you shade other players for scumreading you when they make fair points to make them look inherently unreasonable, tunnelled or biased instead of actually engaging with the point they're making, because when your play is assessed it's likely that you are scum.
The goal of mafia is to find scum. Part of that involves looking at players and uncovering reasons as to why they could potentially come back as scum. When you suspect a player as scum it's therefore natural you're going to find the motivations behind their play as scummy. This exact argument could apply to your read of me, no? Unless your read on me isn't actually that concrete because you fundamentally know I'm town.
Malcolm, consider I'm town rad here a moment and I'll speak to you like you're town Malcolm, k?
Everything you're saying about me is wrong. Nothing I'm doing is scum motivated. And most of your reads on me focus on me being scum with scum motivation.
That's not town rad shading you, that's town rad pointing out that you're wrong because you are. You take just about every action and apply the scum angle to it. It's so consistent that it's maddening. Again you're either conf biased town here or scum, there's no other option from my perspective.
Again though this could apply to literally any player in the game. Scum lie, that is literally the point.
From my POV as a townie my town neighbour who strongly TR'd me has died and the main counter to my wagon (being town) is someone I have suspected for most of the game and who had the perfect motive to eliminate Luke.
Your argument here that we could still both be town looks like a hint towards a compromise elimination, but there are a couple of problems with that solution:
1. It's literally what we did last turn and we were wrong.
2. You are aggressively pushing for my elimination anyway.
Why am I expected to be reasonable and townread you simply on your word when you consistently push for me to be eliminated from the game?
Consider you're willing to compromise on someone else here - where do you plan to vote? And if you're still willing to consider me as biased town, why aren't you pushing anywhere else? To me the answer is quite simple - you're scum and I'm the most viable elimination so you're going for me.
Nono, I don't mean "let's just TR each other from now on", I meant for the sake of understanding why I might be coming across as shading you left and right, consider everything that's gone on as from town!Rad's perspective. Everything you've said about me and my actions, consider why town!Rad might have issue with that.
Okay but I know I am town and from that POV you are relentlessly pushing for my elimination. You ask me to be less fixated on trying to eliminate your slot but the reality is you are no less determined to vote me out - you may hint at being more uncertain but what matters is where you vote and your vote appears to be locked in on me. Given I am town there is little reason for me to see this as anything other than scum motivated for reasons I have outlined repeatedly unless you genuinely believe we both could still be town. The problem with the town Rad argument here is that it just doesn't work - if you think I am scum, why are you posting in a way which is intended to convince me otherwise? If I'm scum it surely wouldn't matter?
In post 9261, Rad wrote:I don't think it's a bad take at all.
The way Malcolm describes my play is heavily descriptive on the scum!Rad side. I'm the sneaky snake scum and every single thing I do can be explained by some sneaky snake scum motivation. Read through Malcolm's content about me and tell me it doesn't read like a fucking mystery novel describing events in detail that assumes my scummy emotions at every turn.
I haven't concluded why he's approaching his cases about me like this, but I think it's probably 1 of 2 options.
1. town!Malcolm is conf biased as fuck and can only view my actions through the Rad Is Scum FOR SURE lense.
2. scum!Malcolm is bloating his cases on me with all the nonsense that Mislim Bait has spotted.
My scumread on you has weakened on the basis of your recent posting, feel like it's a lot more townie and to be honest it's possible I was tunnelled when a few of your posts pinged me as potential mafia.
But I don't think there was anything wrong with the read in itself. The point of this game is to theorise players and either come up with reasons for them being town or mafia. When I don't have decisive reads I'm often accused of being hedgy. When I do come up with a decisive read (typically once the game is more developed) I'm accused of being too tunnelled or too hyper-focused on one player. It's just an easy way to bat off accusations.
Here's another example of when my read on Rad evolved back to them likely being town. Again this false idea I have been completely hyperfocused on the slot and this idea I'm trying to twist anything they do into being scum motivated is a complete lie. I have consistently shown a willingness to reevaluate slots in the game including Rad when new info comes to light or when they post in a way I like or dislike.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:57 am
by ProfessorDrapion
I think it’s obvious Malcom flips wolf and I think it’s Obvious Rad is never with them.
He doesn't have access any longer, but he is almost certain the the first posts were asking whether or not Malcolm had seen Lost and stating he hoped Malcolm was town because he didn't relish the thought of spending the game with scum in a PT.
Not sure how this helps you, but there you go.
Hey Malcolm...can you confirm this? And also that after Luke made this post:
So as I have just been laying here thinking about this game, I realized that if I leave this as is, since we don't actually flip in this game it might actually cause issues if I die night 1.
I don't actually need to find my dad.
That's all I really want to say on the matter
he told you it was his gift to you, you responded that you were confused, and he explained that he made that post because if he died N1 he hadn't claimed and he didn't want you to have any issues due to your flavor?
He doesn't have access any longer, but he is almost certain the the first posts were asking whether or not Malcolm had seen Lost and stating he hoped Malcolm was town because he didn't relish the thought of spending the game with scum in a PT.
Not sure how this helps you, but there you go.
Hey Malcolm...can you confirm this? And also that after Luke made this post:
So as I have just been laying here thinking about this game, I realized that if I leave this as is, since we don't actually flip in this game it might actually cause issues if I die night 1.
I don't actually need to find my dad.
That's all I really want to say on the matter
he told you it was his gift to you, you responded that you were confused, and he explained that he made that post because if he died N1 he hadn't claimed and he didn't want you to have any issues due to your flavor?
Yep I've not seen Lost hence I forgot that detail - my flavour is Michael, Luke's was Walt.