Really not liking the most recent posts, makes me more confident that this is the correct lynch.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:54 pm
by DemonHybrid
Tragedy wrote:Kk. Thanks for lynching a VT then!
I hope Town wins miraculously, then.
Enjoy your luck tonight <3, but you wouldn't really care for an idiot to be lynched anyways. Satisfied, JASON?
Is this AtE to you, Fonz?
I want an answer. Quick.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:02 pm
by Benmage
The answer to some of them should’ve been obvious if you’ve read what I’ve been saying in context.
Like this one:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:This doesn't sound like some martyr trying to preserve the integrity of the game to me. This just sounds like he's pissed off.
I was expecting you to explain how that quote was preserving the integrity of the game.
By holding people accountable to their votes, and by illustrating to them that saying a vote is a pressure vote nullifies the pressure.
And this one:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:If you're voting to obtain information, what's the problem with removing the vote when you get the information you want?
Should be obvious what I'm expecting.
The answer should be more obvious. If someone gives a clause to a vote. The vote is worthless. Scenario: I vote you for XXX…once you perform XXX I’ll unvote you.
So the person can realistically never do XXX.
Because why?
You’ll have to convice everyone that their failure to do XXX is scummy and worthy of lynching (right?). Not an easy task. But even if you do so they can……
at L-1. ………
Perform XXX and nullifiy everything you asked for.
To summarize they can drag their feet hoping you loose interest, or at any point perform XXX and totally nullify your case.
I wasn’t about to waste my fucking time on some bullshit game figuring out a hydra. Seriously…this needs fucking explanation….
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:Don't like this, obviously.
Referring to the "mist have your siblings claim" post.
First of all, you wanted to sacrifice a player in the game for Mist being confirmed town? What?
Second of all, sibling
s
? It wouldn't take more than one.
You also haven't given reasons for voting me, Tragedy, or wanting to vote DBE.
How was I sacrificing a player in game? I’m confused by you’re terminology, or simply not recalling myself or what I felt when I made that post. Everything mist was doing was bewildering, infact my own error was thinking Mist said siblings and claimed Homer when she claimed Family. Not Siblings…(I am fairly certain) My thinking at this point was a slipup by Mist claiming Homer and saying siblings…the asking for siblings claim was a farfetched thought that another scum might get outted. (its hard trying to recall my exact thought process from back then…but I’m pretty sure this was it). I might even have been scoffing at the idea of the possibilities of siblings.
I actually have given reasoning. If you want more you’re going to have to wait…Probably awhile. In the meantime. Is there anyone playing this game for you, other than myself?
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:06 pm
by Benmage
Woooops copied the wrong part over from word...had to reread original quote context to make sure my context was correct...and it wasn't...first section should read:
Benmage wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:
Nachomamma8 wrote:This doesn't sound like some martyr trying to preserve the integrity of the game to me. This just sounds like he's pissed off.
I was expecting you to explain how that quote was preserving the integrity of the game.
By holding people accountable to their votes, and by illustrating to them that saying a vote is a pressure vote nullifies the pressure.
Preserving game integrity if I recall was in reference to withholding information from the town, and that such actions are antitown and would not be tolerated. This quote was, yes me being pissed off, because I wasn't about to let FB drag his feet endlessly with such nonsense.
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:34 pm
by Lowell
Tradegy's behavior since the wagon started on her looks bad, particularly her claim on the last page. The "oh well, GL you guys are lynching a townie" is never pro-town either. Usually scum trying to save face at the last minute rather than town really trying to help.
To answer wraith's question re: tragedy, I don't like the way tragedy has been subtly breadcrumbing names throughout the game (check her bolded font in ISO). I was content to let it go for awhile, but now I'm convinced it's deliberate. With already too many people out there saying "uh, derp, let's only lynch someone who claims a scummy-sounding character," someone deliberately and repeatedly testing the waters with names more than scumhunting rings alarm bells with me.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:39 am
by The Fonz
DemonHybrid wrote:
Tragedy wrote:Kk. Thanks for lynching a VT then!
I hope Town wins miraculously, then.
Enjoy your luck tonight <3, but you wouldn't really care for an idiot to be lynched anyways. Satisfied, JASON?
Is this AtE to you, Fonz?
I want an answer. Quick.
The last line is. The first two aren't, they just come across bitterness/frustration.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:50 am
by The Fonz
Oh, and Lowell's totally town.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:26 am
by Consigliere
Really annoying observation about the current suspect:
Tragedy has yet to remove her vote from Jason.
How do you, if you are town, leave your vote on an uncountered doctor claim?
I mean...Isn't that the FIRST thing somebody would do is unvote? That would be my logical reaction.
Things like this give me little pause usually in voting.
However, before I place my vote I have one other observation....
Under the sens' theory, there are 2 scum in these 13 people:
I find it somewhat interesting that these are 10 votes on Tragedy currently:
Steven Hacking
,
diddin
, boberz, Mariyta, jasonT1981, DemonHybrid,
Benmage
,
Wraith
,
Lowell
, ribwich
That's 5 of the 9 people OFF the wagon that are currently voting for Tragedy. Half the wagon. I guess this could be read a few different ways.
Town-sided players doing everything they can to not get lynched themselves.
OR
Mafia-driven plan to pass the heat and hope things turn for the better in light of a big blow by sens' claim.
OR
A combination of both of the above.
Where's all the "most-likely, because they're on the wagon" town players on this Tragedy deal? How do I know there isn't 6 scum on this wagon currently?
Conversely:
Of the 12 non-Tragedy voters...Only 5 of them were on that wagon AND on this wagon.
Does this sound like a united town front to you?
At least 5 town-sided players are not on this wagon even if 2 of those 7 are mafia....
Seems odd to me.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:07 am
by sottyrulez
diddin:
Our case has been laid out as you mention, also the fact you had done extremely little this day had a lot to do with out vote. Zach also built on it some more here:
Spoiler: More on the diddin case
diddin wrote:I believe the polls are unnecessary, Mariyta. Just votes and discussion should be able to do the same job.
ATTN: Sottyrulez
Do you have anything to add on to your case on me from day 1? Do you have any comments on my play since then. I'm trying to make this clear so you don't skip it and run out of posts.
Oh yes we do.
diddin wrote:
Tragedy wrote:
Fuuu claim: I'm the Comic Guy.
No powers? Lynch all 'nilla claims.
Lynch all 'nilla claims huh? What about this one?
DarlaBlueEyes wrote:am I at L-1? Phooey.
I'm Vanilla Townie. My 'Role' as it were is Grounds Keeper Willie which I got in pre-claimed on my first post with a Willie quote. Assuming you've all seen the X-Files ep anyways. I am sorry to bot be more help in this game but I have got no clue who is scum, and in general the whole hydra thing confuses me and I have been lazy with my VTness and not much help. I will understand if you guys wanna lynch me for that... I don't want to replace out, but right now I have been too busy/tired to go back and really scrutinize this game like I ought to be doing.
I have been trying it's just all very difficult and I admit with only being VT and everyone wanting me dead I have been a bit apathetic about it all... /fails
AND WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THIS CLAIM. THY QUOTE SHALL TELL THY TALE.
diddin wrote:
boberz wrote:
SA wrote: Boberz, again, what gives you the impression that Tragedy plays for survival regardless of alignment?
I have done this already. Tragedy has no incentive to deliberately look to want to survive. Tragedy is clearly attempting to appear this way (the shameless OMGUS for example) therefore I conclude that tragedy wants to look like somebody who is a survivalist. Therefore tragedy must have survivalist tendancies. Do not ask again, it is distracting and pointless.
---
On the Darla stuff. A few things:
Firstly that wagon cleared so quickly that if Darla is scum then I am betting that somebody who came off the wagon is bussing scum looking for an excuse to jump off it.
Secondly I do not think it should be treated as a pre L-1 vote, I believe Darla thought it was L-1 and his lack of awareness ingame is evidence to support this theory.
Thirdly Groundskeeper Willy is 'bad' in several episodes (if I remember correctly, my simpsons is a bit rusty) and certainly does not fit what I would imagine as a VT in this game.
Fourthly, for those of us not enlightened, what is so town like about DBE according to those fleeing his wagon?
jasonT1981 wrote:
Emergency V/LA - Some issues have been brewing for the last month and come to a head today that have resulted in me having stacks of paperwork to do, as well as having to explore legal options and am stressed to hell with the situation.
Will reply to Sotty quickly though.
Sotty, yes I have played DTM before, but without going looking through past games I do not actually have a meta on him.. Sorry, but I just don't remember everything people have done in past games that I have played with as town or scum. So if your asking do I have meta on DTM, no sorry I don't...just because I have played before with them does not mean I have a meta read.. especially with it being two people on the account also and not only DTM..
the only people in this game I actually have any sort of Meta on is yourself and Zach as I have played you both so much. I still do say you are town
Anyway, I do agree on Darla. I have had my say on her and my reasons are clear.
unvote
vote: Darla
^proof the Darla wagon is stinking of scum.
Boberz's wagonvote based on Meta is awful. Jason's is an obvsheep. I'm ok with a lynch on either of them.
What? No lynch all 'nilla claims? You do even worse than that, formulating suspicions based on bandwagon analysis of an unflipped player, all while stating this previously about Darla preclaim:
diddin wrote:
DarlaBlueEyes wrote:What I think we have here is a problem with genders. I am a woman. Women are bound to be more emotional over things and clearly that's been miscontrewed in my posts as taking this too seriously. I assure I ain't bovvered one bit, and any perceived irritation or hostility from me is, again, sarcasm. mmkay?
PS that quote post is coming, had to run to the store and just now got back. Expect it in the next 10 mins or so.
Other than this defense which is utter crap I really don't see anything too scummy about Darla. Neutral-leaning scum, but we have bigger fish to fry IMO.
Neutral-leaning scum, and you're attacking people who were wagoning her. Neutral leaning scum, and no declaration to lynch all 'nilla claims when she claimed vanilla.
diddin wrote:
LlamaFluff wrote:
diddin wrote:
Tragedy wrote:
Fuuu claim: I'm the Comic Guy.
No powers? Lynch all 'nilla claims.
Which is why you wanted to lynch DBE's claim of VT?
I never really found DBE scummy. I meant that a Vanilla claim never changes my mind about a lynch.
X
We're pretty sure you are going to flip scum.
Steven Hacking:
Please explain your diddin town read. Which posts read as
“competent town”
?
Tragedy's last few posts have felt a bit scummy, her not knowing we were restricted for example kinda sticks out. Still, we're still getting noob town from her. We think diddin is an infinitely better lynch today, so our vote stays.
~Sotty + Zach a tag team effort (Post 4)
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:22 am
by Wraith
I think diddin should be the lynch tomorrow, it's pretty clear Tragedy's the dead person today.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:53 am
by Consigliere
That's a pretty convincing argument on diddin...I'd vote for him based on that...
Startin' to add up on the off the wagon train for me...nacho...Tragedy...diddin....
Nobody takes pause on our vote leader after my last post?
Just checkin'.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:03 am
by boberz
Tragedy wrote:Meh, you know the drill, there'll be less scums on the smaller wagon now.
Exactly so that is why we are going to lynch you.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:32 am
by The Fonz
Wraith wrote:I think diddin should be the lynch tomorrow, it's pretty clear Tragedy's the dead person today.
Would you draw any inferences as to diddin's alignment from Tragedy's?
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:46 am
by Wraith
The Fonz wrote:
Wraith wrote:I think diddin should be the lynch tomorrow, it's pretty clear Tragedy's the dead person today.
Would you draw any inferences as to diddin's alignment from Tragedy's?
I think he's scum either way.
Okay, HONESTLY, I'd prefer to lynch diddin today, but he's not the one at L-2 and I'm kind of tired of trying to convince people to move anymore.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:11 am
by Mariyta
You had me up til here, then I got confused.
Consigliere wrote:Conversely:
Of the 12 non-Tragedy voters...Only 5 of them were on that wagon AND on this wagon.
Does this sound like a united town front to you?
At least 5 town-sided players are not on this wagon even if 2 of those 7 are mafia....
Looking at the diddin case after dinner.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:32 pm
by Benmage
SENSFAN
can you ask the mod if there could exist an investigative-like immune role, that could not be shown in your power.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:34 pm
by SensFan
Pay the hell attention, this is like the third time someone has asked me. There is absolutely no wiggle-room, exactly two anti-town roles exist on the Mist wagon; no false positives, nor false negatives.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:39 pm
by boberz
SensFan wrote:Pay the hell attention
This is true of so many people over so many things. People should spend a greater % of time reading.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:41 pm
by Steven Hacking
Re: Sotty
isoing pre-case review:
Day1
I'm agreeing with a lot of his reads (Eg: Jasonscum (at the time) and DarlaTown(at the time)). Points on play and theory seem solid/sound, but going over them this time, they do seem to be occurring more often than necessary, possibly in order to avoid real posting (missed this).
The "if Jason=scum, then Trag=Town" and subsequent analysis isn't a good idea, but the logic is sound given the reads/assumptions he's making. At the time, I agreed with the individual reads, the connection and assumptions to jump to the logic argument were not strong.
Possible over-reaction/over defensive about Wraith's paranoia comment, could go both ways, I still can't read his subsequent flailing as panicking town vs panicking scum. I just read flail.
Day2
Deer's death comment is close to the "oh that sucks"/commenting on night events tell, but it had enough content for me not to think too much of it. Even if I think the logic behind "so-and-so died, and was suspicious of what's her face, therefore, let's kill what's her face" is utter failure.
The case(s) between Hiraki and others read as overexcited town v town to me. I still think Hiraki is town, and I remembered diddin being involved in that exchange, so he was considered townish due to the aforesaid town v town read. Upon review, diddin wasn't leading the Hiraki case as much as I seemed to be under the impression at the time. I only associated it with diddin strongly, because that was the counter case Hiraki was pushing.
In light of your case:
I didn't get much out of the "lynch all nilla claims" argument, as I found it exceedingly dumb. Though with this recent review, I did notice the paradoxical "neutral leaning scum but not scum" darla position. I didn't put it together quite as soundly as you did, excellent work. (though the crux of this argument came after my assertion of competence).
To summarize, my impression of competence was early on, and future reading was in light of that preconception. I was clearly mistaken. It's likely I put too much focus on the first impression. I clearly overlooked slight scumslips and things that should have thrown up a scum flag. Upon re-reading, there are some clear inconsistencies in play. In the post where I referred to him being worth anything, he was in my #2 scum slot, so applying an erratum to said clause puts him solidly in a #2 scum slot.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:47 pm
by Benmage
SensFan wrote:Pay the hell attention, this is like the third time someone has asked me. There is absolutely no wiggle-room, exactly two anti-town roles exist on the Mist wagon; no false positives, nor false negatives.
Yow.
SensFan wrote:My role pm is phrased such that the results are guaranteed unless the mod lies outright to me. Regardless, I sent him a PM to confirm this.
SensFan wrote:*sigh*
Regardless of the fact that my PM contains absolutely zero ambiguity or room for misinformation, the Mod is now saying he 'cannot deny or confirm' if my results are guaranteed to be accurate.
SensFan wrote:Alright, just got confirmation from the Mod. There are exactly two players who were on the Mist wagon that have wincons that go directly against that of the Town. No sanity/immunity issues to worry about.
I forgot about this last one. Pondering the game I would've thought a GF/SK would've been hidden from this, and I had forgotten you had full mod clarity.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:08 pm
by diddin
I hear talk about my potential lynch tomorrow. All I can say is I shouldn't have said ALL vanilla claims. As I said before I am meaning that the vanilla claim does NOT change my opinion on someone. I read frustrated town on Darla before and after her vanilla claim. I just simply used the wrong words.
I will semi-claim for thought fodder though.
I have a vote restriction of some variety
.
Interesting to note that sottyruelz's new case is pretty much exactly what LlamaFluff posted a few pages back, and while they posted new additions, they added nothing to their case on me from the time BEFORE my post asking them if there was anything new.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:10 pm
by diddin
Wraith wrote:
The Fonz wrote:
Wraith wrote:I think diddin should be the lynch tomorrow, it's pretty clear Tragedy's the dead person today.
Would you draw any inferences as to diddin's alignment from Tragedy's?
I think he's scum either way.
Okay, HONESTLY, I'd prefer to lynch diddin today, but he's not the one at L-2 and I'm kind of tired of trying to convince people to move anymore.
^If Tragedy flips scum and when I flip town this post pretty much confirms Wraith as scum.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:31 pm
by SensFan
FWIW, if I had a daykill, diddin would be dead for the complete idiocy of his dumbass softclaim.
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:36 pm
by Nachomamma8
It's too late to post an ISO right now, but I'm REALLY not liking sottyrulez right now. I'll get a post in why tomorrow.