In post 1399, Yates wrote:Notice he specifically pointed out later movers? That's not the same as looking at the counter wagon. That's an accusation. I'm wondering how he can raise a concern without knowing the alignments of either player. This pinged hard.
Meh, I see your point but I could easily see BROseidon, mastin, EtL and others doing that exact shit as town like that. It seems a little un-PV, but I dont think its scummy.
Well... it's not Townie. Anyway, I'd rather he replied since this is about his post and his logic as opposed to something you might think he's thinking.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:33 am
by Snork
AP, since you're here...
Blue below are additions I've made just now.
In post 1064, Snork wrote:The only thing that really bugs me about Luca is the fact that my scum reads are advocating it as an acceptable lynch.
My top town reads right now are you
[Snow]
, MR, AP, Pisskop, Zd and mastin. Second tier would be Yates, DV, 4nx and pmatt.
Adding a third tier of null, maybe town, here: DG, Luca
Top scum reads are Talah, Thad, aptil,
DG,
Nero,
Rach.
Nulls are
nero (for now - his ISO is on my list), Luca,
and PV (who I was originally scum reading, but not sure if correct yet based on other posts).
In post 1398, Snork wrote:But now that you mention it... that's.. a big list. Talk about casting a wide net.
5-6 scum. no one gonna peg all right off the bat. Since its a wider net its more likely to contain the names of scum and scare the fuck out of them.
Is this because these are your actual reads or because you think it's appropriate to have this many?
Nero wrote:
In post 1398, Snork wrote:lol... So, now, because I think you could be scum, I'm scum? Hoo boy...
yes, obviously I just NOW have a scum read on you. I apparently didn't call you scum back in 1300..
Well, must not have been important of a scum read enough to try to pin me down. I mean, with that many scum reads, you'd think you'd want to narrow the list by questioning everyone on there, but this is the first time we've interacted. So... yeah, just now.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:39 am
by Nero Cain
actual reads though some I'm not too confident in.
I liked DV, but some of his recent opinions are less than sensible so Im bumping him into "not willing to lynch Today, someone should probably investigate this"-ville.
Zdenek I really don't know what to make of this game. I sort of like his reads, but not quite comfortable calling him town.
RM, matt, mastin are great targets for investigative PRs right now.
Scummy: Talah, Admiral, aptil, pisskop, Bipolar
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:17 am
by AngryPidgeon
In post 1334, DeasVail wrote:I would be unwilling to lynch the following:
talah (obviously)
Honestly, since Luca seems vaguely scummy and is the biggest non-Talah wagon, I am happy putting my vote there. Basically he's not delivered his promised posting but is not aspiring to be better whatsoever where I think town here would want to try harder, especially considering his comment about being too bad to be scum.
Curb your inner puppy-murdering urges and vote Luca Blight today!
Trimmed his wont-lynch list, but .. This with the following vote hop onto Luca is Sketchy McSketcherson
I liked DV, but some of his recent opinions are less than sensible so Im bumping him into "not willing to lynch Today, someone should probably investigate this"-ville.
Zdenek I really don't know what to make of this game. I sort of like his reads, but not quite comfortable calling him town.
RM, matt, mastin are great targets for investigative PRs right now.
Scummy: Talah, Admiral, aptil, pisskop, Bipolar
I wanted to see your reads for a couple of reasons.
1) I wanted to see the differences between your scumreads and mine, and ask you what you see that I may be missing, and then figure out if I agree or not;
and
2) To see if there's anyone in your townreads that I felt really didn't belong there, and look into why.
I'm satisfied that my read on you is still correct. Questions for you:
- I'm guessing that RM, mastin and matt are your nulls? Would it be appropriate to add DV to your list of "good PR targets"?
- I thought you were pretty accurate reading mastin. Is it just his current V/LA that has prevented you from getting a read on him yet or is there something else?
- Regarding your town read of Nero, do you think his reaction to me the last page or two is alignment indicative at all?
- I can understand why you have aptil and Bipolar in your scum lists. How strong are those reads? If one or both are town, who would you replace them with?
- Talk to me about Pisskop. Why are you scumreading him?
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:28 am
by AngryPidgeon
In post 1410, Snork wrote:1) I wanted to see the differences between your scumreads and mine, and ask you what you see that I may be missing, and then figure out if I agree or not;
I actually kind of glazed over yours at first, but I see Admiral, aptil, Talah are in both, so that is a solid place to be voting imo. I don't see how anyone can have pisskop down as probably town though.
In post 1410, Snork wrote:2) To see if there's anyone in your townreads that I felt really didn't belong there, and look into why.
I see you disagree on PV and moreso Nero. I'd ask you why you think Nero is scum, but I don't particularly care. This looks like town-Nero. Him being abrasive and tunneling on obvtown Rogers for random reasons is pretty par. Its possible hes scum, but I reallllly am not seeing it here.
In post 1410, Snork wrote:- I'm guessing that RM, mastin and matt are your nulls? Would it be appropriate to add DV to your list of "good PR targets"?
Ya, those 4 are pretty much middle of the road for me. Mastin hasn't posted enough to be readable yet. RM is rm. I disliked her calling Luca out for voting low-hanging fruit right before hopping on the old wagon, but thats the only thing shes done that I find really interesting. Matt's Yates vote was bad, and his Luca vote is , but I liked some of his opinions about lurkers and play in general. DV's Talah defense is pretty bad, not sure if its scum though.
In post 1410, Snork wrote:- Regarding your town read of Nero, do you think his reaction to me the last page or two is alignment indicative at all?
Yes, town.
In post 1410, Snork wrote:- I can understand why you have aptil and Bipolar in your scum lists. How strong are those reads? If one or both are town, who would you replace them with?
Uhhhhh, one of RM, mastin, DV, matt? I guess RM or DV if I had to sort this list right now.
In post 1269, SnowStorm wrote:Anyone who has doubts should just ISO him. It worked for me.
I don't like this post. Like - at all. Please provide the points that caused YOU to read Talah scum. No one can defend against "read ISO." It's also lazy posting and gives you an easy excuse to jump on a leading wagon while providing no information about your alignment after a flip. Commit to your read.
I didn't vote him to get a reaction, I voted him to lynch him. I don't get how you see that as an easy excuse to jump on his wagon. I mean, it's not like I needed one.
Now, the points that make me think Talah is scum: He is playing a reactive rather than pro-active game. I don't usually find this a very condemning point, but in this case it's pretty worrisome. He had the time and energy to react to every little thing Rogers said about him, why not put that time and energy into something more productive? From what I can tell he doesn't even think Rogers is scum, most of their interaction is pretty pointless. (Btw, I absolutely love the post where he accuses Rogers of cluttering up the game and making it "a really easy place for scum to hide", when he's as guilty (At least Rogers had some good pertinent posts) and a big contributor to Roger's spam.)
I really didn't like Roger's attack at the start of the game and I didn't like Talah's reaction to it either. I didn't what to make of it then. At first I didn't think MR was serious, yet Talah had a serious reaction and MR kept it serious. Right now, I think MR was just eager to get the game started. I don't know if he was as serious as he appeared to be, but Talah's reaction was pretty bad.
Actually I know more folks playing here than I realised, so -general hello- and down to business.
@Mister, not genuine
how
?
The *yawn* to me read as "Whatevs that's just RVS BS", but then he makes that question, which only makes sense if he took the attack seriously. It also shows self-awareness. It's like he wants to look as if he doesn't care and at the same time know what he did wrong. Town would either simply not care and move on or attack MR back to try getting some reactions. MR proceeds with his attack and in the next post Talah just gets defensive for no logical reason. It's like, he realizes MR's attack is bad and makes no sense, but that for some reason he feels the need to defend from it and not fight back. It's purely reactive. It's as if he's only here to be judged and not to judge others. It's scum mentality and it's present throughout all of his posts.
Like wtf is this? Both the spacing issue and that third paragraph just scream of self-aware scum.
Also, why isn't he making a stronger push to lynch MR? (before he replaced out). At some point he lists him in his "would lynch" list, so apparently he does suspect him! So why not push for the lynch of the player who's been throwing the most BS at you, who's spamming the game and who is fooling most of the other players? He's obviously a more dangerous scum than Luca or Aptil or myself (whom I don't even remember him mentioning until that list) or whoever his other suspects are. Well, I'm guessing the reason he didn't push for the MR lynch is the same reason why he didn't attack him at the start of the game, he knows MR is town and that even though some of his points have been bullshitty, he's right about him being scum.
we don't even need to go into particular arguments
,
talah has the second highest post count and all his effort has been put in overreacting to people and generating mostly pointless arguments
. That's not how you play as town.
To the bold - You really REALLY do need to get into "particular arguments."
To the underlined - what would you expect to see from someone trying to defend against "read the ISO?"
No, I don't, that's the point. As for your second question, it's totally invalid since I was talking about all the reactions that occurred prior to my vote, which weren't to attacks based on "read his ISO". I can tell you what I'd expect to see from someone on his position though. If he does suspect his attackers, I'd expect him to attack them too and not just defend from them. Otherwise, I'd expect him to tell us who his suspects are and why; I'd expect him to have some thoughts that are not related to the attacks on him or that go beyond those attacks.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:11 am
by Snork
AP, you think attacking someone for asking others to ISO them is a town reaction?
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:15 am
by AngryPidgeon
In post 1413, Snork wrote:AP, you think attacking someone for asking others to ISO them is a town reaction?
Nero is being indignant and tunnely and it looks town, so yes.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:16 am
by Snork
Mk. It didn't read indignant to me, but if you have experience reading him, I'll keep it in mind. I'm far more interested in Talah flip at the moment anyway.
All of his main scumreads are on probable townies. His back up scumread on me has no development, Luca/RM are easy reads, and his "increasingly Talah" read sounds an awful lot like "Oh shit, Talah's getting lynched. Better get some towncred for it" and it doesnt really make sense with his other stated reads.
This is such a weak opinion. It looks like doing something for the sake of looking busy.
He was apparently scumreading Rogers, then later unvotes and drops some awkward tidbit about not having meta on anyone. Annnnnd its gone! His scumread on Rogers is just gone after that.
And I dislike that hes trying to mislynch Yates for ~reasons~.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:23 am
by Snork
The Yates scumreads don't make sense to you? I disagree with them, but I can understand them, so the pushers on that one aren't as scummy looking to me, I suppose. (I'm lazy or I'd be more specific with names, but I'm a pothead and don't remember).
If you go back to where Pisskop posted 847 there and read how he reacted to my poking, that's when I started to get a town feeling from him, but if you want to talk about indignant tone - that post definitely has it. (Actually, let me go look at that and tell you exactly why - brb)
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:25 am
by Snork
And Talah started off really strong, and quickly descended into insane scum. At least that's the way it looked from my POV, so his "increasingly Talah" could be either town coming out of tunnel mode or scum prepping to bus, so I don't think it's a good tell.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:28 am
by AngryPidgeon
In post 1417, Snork wrote:The Yates scumreads don't make sense to you? I disagree with them, but I can understand them, so the pushers on that one aren't as scummy looking to me, I suppose. (I'm lazy or I'd be more specific with names, but I'm a pothead and don't remember).
Uh? Yates looks pretty town and Pisskop swoops in to wagon him with no reason after Matt votes him [yates] for no reason.
He hasn't really talked about Yates (other than his catchup?).
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:30 am
by AngryPidgeon
In post 1418, Snork wrote:And Talah started off really strong, and quickly descended into insane scum. At least that's the way it looked from my POV, so his "increasingly Talah" could be either town coming out of tunnel mode or scum prepping to bus, so I don't think it's a good tell.
Eh, fair enough. I'd feel better about him if he weren't voteparking Yates
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:37 pm
by Snork
Spoiler: this post by pisskop AP
Context: just before this post, I told him I thought his 4nx vote was opportunistic.
In post 520, ThAdmiral wrote:Instead of yourself how about joining me on the anxiety wagon?
The bonus is he's actually scum!
How can I be the only person voting him?
In post 522, pisskop wrote:BeetleJuiCe is fitting Stop your nonsense and make contents.
I think I can go for an anxiety wagon.
vote: 4nxi3ty
and still dont feel completely safe around Rogers.
Annnd look at that. I wont claim there wasnt oppurtunity; oppurtunity is awsome.
You cant say im trying to hide my votes when I have already cast more votesthan some will all game. It counter-intuitive to pretend Im trying to to be any sort of guileful by voting so noticeably. bad.
There's a lot there so it's a bit hard to nail it down, but basically.. he was accused of something, and instantly showed his own history. It's kind of a soft and subtle tell for me, but it works so well in conjunction with others. Scum spend most of the time trying to blend in, move with the town, and hope to end up with a mislynch at the end of the day. That takes focus. It takes reacting to town's whims - not initiating their own motives (mostly). When you're reacting, you aren't planning who you're going to poke at next, or who you're going to watch, or what you "reads" are. You're simply trying to make it look like you are. In short, scum aren't going to be able to refute accusations as fluidly as town are. And this post shows pisskop being able to do just that without breaking a sweat. And you know what? He didn't even attack me in the end. He just showed me his evidence and moved on. <<< That's a townie attitude.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:04 pm
by AngryPidgeon
In post 1421, Snork wrote:There's a lot there so it's a bit hard to nail it down, but basically.. he was accused of something, and instantly showed his own history. It's kind of a soft and subtle tell for me, but it works so well in conjunction with others. Scum spend most of the time trying to blend in, move with the town, and hope to end up with a mislynch at the end of the day. That takes focus. It takes reacting to town's whims - not initiating their own motives (mostly). When you're reacting, you aren't planning who you're going to poke at next, or who you're going to watch, or what you "reads" are. You're simply trying to make it look like you are. In short, scum aren't going to be able to refute accusations as fluidly as town are. And this post shows pisskop being able to do just that without breaking a sweat. And you know what? He didn't even attack me in the end. He just showed me his evidence and moved on. <<< That's a townie attitude.
Except all he did was a quote a shitload of posts by himself and point out that he had poked at Anxiety before. That isn't town? If he had organically coughed up a lot of reasons for thinking Anxiety was scummy from memory then Id say its more likely, but him quoting his ISO and saying "Lol, ya I guess you COULD be right" isn't town. I mean its not explicitly scummy, but its not town either.
And I don't know what you are smoking (weed apparently) but "trying to blend in with the town" != reactionary play. When Im scum, Im typically pretty aware of who Im pushing, CERTAINLY enough so that I could ctrl+f my iso for posts about "Anxiety" and link them if my vote on Anxiety got called opportunistic.
, but I liked some of his opinions about lurkers and play in general. DV's Talah defense is pretty bad, not sure if its scum though.