1) cross voting is in fact something id consider reasonably consistent w bussing, fwiw. Frankly, if ploben was my teammate with that ISO I'd bus him, so your voting there (while IMO correct) is not clearing for you. I'd be mildly surprised your wagon got so much d1 interest if you were teammates, but it's not outside he realm of possibility. Not really a d1 priority sort for me though.
2) if Dunn has been explicit repeatedly, that'd be kinda bad, but if he was pretty strong on you both, compromising on you (the larger wagon anyway) does not seem majorly suspicious. I'm fine w you building a case there, but I'm not really buying it before flips start to happen. Kinda a boring refrain, but not a d1 priority sort for me. In the event that { ploben, kuroi, btd6 } doesn't have 2+ wolves, I might be potentially more interested. But I feel like kuroi is about as far as I'd want to compromise away from ploben on d1. MAYBE btd6 if someone wants to effectively hard sell it.
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:43 pm
by Dunnstral
In post 1082, Dunnstral wrote:I can give you a summary, in a little bit though, I think Ranger is scum and would rather get her then Kuroi today as I'm more confident in Ranger
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:45 pm
by Dunnstral
In post 1095, Dunnstral wrote:Alright without going into Ranger's iso (you can check up on your own if you really want) here is what she's done:
Defensively talks about herself at slightest pressure
Aggressively attacking people who scum read her (Except Florestan)
Goes on and on about other games, makes big walls of text that
don't matter
In addition to above, self meta all day long (more time referencing self meta than this game!)
Reads are horrible, and almost all of them I disagree with
The associations between her, Kuroi, (and now possibly Ploben?) make her VERY likely to be mafia
Again her scum team makes no sense whatsoever and the fact that it's being pushed all around now makes me think that Ploben might be mafia after all and the mafia are slipping up by knowing too much
For that last point I exclude duppin as a link because Chip is really the only one pushing that angle, while Ranger and Karnos (Who I'm still not quite convinced can't be scum) push the other three
I mean realistically if Ranger and Kuroi are both mafia, it's probably not also Karnos just on the basis that one of these lurkers are bound to be mafia as well
Also that theory that the 3 top posters are mafia spamming the thread is laughable and will be quoted in post-game/after flips
Ranger top scum read. Kuroi close behind.
Panther and Chip top town reads
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:54 pm
by mhsmith0
I think Rangers reads are at least defensible, unless you think ploben is a solid town (which you don't seem to think any more).
I think the associations w her slot depend on ploben/kuroi flips anyway, so better to flip them first.
Her wolf team of ploben, Panther, you would be a really weird one (I.e. Super blatant working together, just for one mislynch you'd eat the pressure/blame for anyway). I wouldn't 100% die of shock if it was two of you, but all three seems really reachy. IMO guessing at a team there is probably the reachiest thing she's done.
I don't see much obvious evidence of her bullshitting the thread. Stone-walling at times, yes. Self-meta, defensiveness, yes. But active dishonesty I don't really see. I would much rather the players who are actively bullshitting the thread win their reads/votes (I.e. Ploben, kuroi, btd6), and deal with you, Panther, and / or ranger as/if needed after that point.
It's like playing in a turbo with vigs. Hero shots later, likeliest wolves first.
I like the points that Smith has raised, don't agree with all of them but yeah. They seem to be coming from a well thought out mindset, difficult to fake.
I think I'm beginning to understand how he gets his reads upside down
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:36 pm
by Shadow_step
Chip, what is your read on Kuroi?
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:57 pm
by Chip Butty
Okay, where I'm at ATM:
I still want to lynch plob today. Is there anyone who thinks he is probTown? Anyone who thinks ploc is probScum should vote him so we can move the game forward. Even if you have other scum candidates (Ranger, Kuroi, BTD, whoever), let's lynch plob and decide where to go from there. In particular, I'm not seeing Ranger as a lynch for today, so I want to appeal to the Town on that wagon to come across to plob (provided they think plob is probTown), and let's get this game going again. I agree with whoever said it is stalling. I don't think anything is to be gained by drawing the Day out longer.
mhsmith seems strongly Town to me, he is taking really strong stances, most of which I agree with, and seems to have his priorities right (e.g. plob first, don't worry too much about Panther v Ranger ATM).
I'm still leaning Town for both karnos and Ranger. I guess throughout the game I have been suspicious of those who were first on the karnos wagon and then on the Ranger wagon. I'm also leaning Town for Florestan, but I don't put much stock in his reads. Have some worries about Ranger, but not lynchable for today imo. I think Shadow is Town too.
Dunn, duppin, Panther: I waver a bit on these three, individually. Wouldn't be surprised at all to find one or maybe two scum in there.
Persivul: Pretty sure he is the Mod. So far, most of his posts have been VCs or responses to questions addressed to Mod.
Kuroi: I waver between scum (depending on whether I have a slot available for him) and not very useful Town. Agree he is shootable. Don't want to lynch just yet.
BTD: strong lean scum. Shootable.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:17 am
by ploben
In post 1396, mhsmith0 wrote:Seriously, at some point you may want to engage with the robust form of peoples cases against you (as crunkus would say). Or you could keep just picking around the edges and make sure that you will get yourself lynched. Since I think you're a wolf I'm fine with the latter.
But on the off chance I'm wrong, feel free to actually try digging out of the hole you've dug for yourself. Your call.
For context, mhsmith is addressing me. This just feels like he knows I'm town due to perfect information as scum and it's like he's setting himself up on D2 (if I get lynched D1) to say "Well I tried to give him a chance to prove he was town but he was just too scummy not to lynch. Let's move on!"
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:18 am
by ploben
In post 1413, Chip Butty wrote:I still want to lynch plob today. Is there anyone who thinks he is probTown?
I like the sound of plobTown
In post 1413, Chip Butty wrote:I agree with whoever said it is stalling. I don't think anything is to be gained by drawing the Day out longer.
This is literally quoted 5 posts above your post. Distancing from Dunnstral? Hmmmmm.
In post 1413, Chip Butty wrote:Persivul: Pretty sure he is the Mod. So far, most of his posts have been VCs or responses to questions addressed to Mod.
In post 1413, Chip Butty wrote:I agree with whoever said it is stalling. I don't think anything is to be gained by drawing the Day out longer.
This is literally quoted 5 posts above your post. Distancing from Dunnstral? Hmmmmm.
WTF??? I've had Dunn on my list of possible scum virtually throughout the game. Even in the list of reads I just posted, he is in the group about which I say I would not be surprised to find contains scum. And you point to THIS for your example of "distancing"??? I think you are not even really trying to convince people anymore.
Also, really, you are trying to paint mhsmith as scum now?
In post 1413, Chip Butty wrote:Kuroi: I waver between scum (depending on whether I have a slot available for him) and not very useful Town. Agree he is shootable. Don't want to lynch just yet.
What about compromising and agreeing I am shootable and lynching Kuroi instead?
In post 1413, Chip Butty wrote:I agree with whoever said it is stalling. I don't think anything is to be gained by drawing the Day out longer.
This is literally quoted 5 posts above your post. Distancing from Dunnstral? Hmmmmm.
WTF??? I've had Dunn on my list of possible scum virtually throughout the game. Even in the list of reads I just posted, he is in the group about which I say I would not be surprised to find contains scum. And you point to THIS for your example of "distancing"??? I think you are not even really trying to convince people anymore.
Also, really, you are trying to paint mhsmith as scum now?
To both of your points: As town I have the obligation to point these kind of things out.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:25 am
by karnos
Lets do this, ploben will plobably flip scum.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:28 am
by ploben
In post 1421, karnos wrote:Lets do this, ploben will plobably flip scum.
Oh yeah, Karnos getting in on the action.
Can you maybe put a plocentage on me flipping scum?
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:37 am
by KuroiXHF
I'll hopefully respond more soon tonight but I'm lolling at the whole, "I could get behind a Kuroi lynch" while... voting anyone else OTHER than a Kuroi lynch.
I think you are not even really trying to convince people anymore. 