Mini 1802: Paint Mafia Sequel - Game Over!

[pieguyn]

I meant the point about the miller claim not making sense with the setup. I'm more than open to other reason for him being scum.

[pieguyn]

his vote on Aris looking like a bus is something that I thought myself a while back when I went to look at it again, actually. it read as "I'll stall out to see whether this gains traction", and then him joining after dwlee voted Aris almost immediately afterward. I think I forgot to mention it, though.

[TellTaleHeart]

also I'd be interested in hearing if you think S_S has made a single reasonable point in his interactions with people about me. the vast majority of what he's written recently has been overly semantic, and read more like he's nitpicking on minor things in order to look like he has a point than actually doing anything - which maybe he's just really illogical, but he's doing things like asking me random questions about irrelevant things or getting in an argument over how TBG's reason for town reading me not being "enough to warrant a strong town read", instead of just trying to explain to people why I'm scum. the focus here is just all wrong and off.

I haven't read all your points on S_S and I will do that now. But I'll give you my first impression of him.

I think he's either town or he's playing a total "refuge-in-audacity" scumgame. There's not really evidence of planning ahead or scheming. Going after you as a busser as opposed to one of the weaker links of the Ari wagon (e.g. Bella) seems like a suboptimal scum play. Going for a Katsuki color flip and then

not

pushing that lynch once it came up red doesn't seem like a play scum would make either.

If he's scum here, then frankly I'm pretty impressed at the balls it took to play a scumgame like this.

[kraska77]

^ I agree with this
He's being too transparent about his thoughts and not making much effort to look consistent so he's town probably

[pieguyn]

Going after you as a busser as opposed to one of the weaker links of the Ari wagon (e.g. Bella) seems like a suboptimal scum play. Going for a Katsuki color flip and then not pushing that lynch once it came up red doesn't seem like a play scum would make either.

mm, I'll wait for you to look at the rest of what I wrote before making that huge of a point over this but S_S seems pretty clearly lined up to vote on the Katsuki wagon if his push on me doesn't go anywhere. I don't think there's much of a reason he'd hard push the Katsuki lynch when in most gamestates Katsuki would have been the de facto lynch regardless of whether he put any effort into it or not. the only reason it wound up like it is now is because I stalled out the Katsuki lynch really hard and then RC replaced out.

I agree that him pushing me would be an unusual scum play, but that's exactly why that kind of thing works. "push the most town player and get people to think what you're doing makes no sense as scum" isn't an unheard of strategy, and I actually don't put something like that past him.

[TellTaleHeart]

His push on you was

never

going anywhere, pie, and you'd have to pretty delusional to think otherwise.

[pieguyn]

I mean, that's the point: he went off and pushed me after the Katsuki colorflip, yeah, but it realistically likely wouldn't have mattered. his vote for all practical purposes was going to Katsuki at some point or another.

sorry if that was unclear, I'm pretty exhausted rn.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yet here we are with an unlynched Katsuki.

[pieguyn]

I could be wrong, but I _really_ do not think he or anyone else would have expected me to be as successful at stalling the Katsuki lynch as I was.

I think the plan was always "Katsuki will get lynched after he flips red, and that's that".

[TellTaleHeart]

also I'd be interested in hearing if you think S_S has made a single reasonable point in his interactions with people about me.

Not really, but I don't think anything he's said has been

really

out there. I also don't think rationality is tightly connected with alignment.

I say this knowing your definition of what you think is "reasonable" very likely differs from mine. For example,

not enough to justify a strong townread, especially given that immediately afterward she used the towncred she got from the first lynch to push through another lynch onto town.

I find this fucking hilarious. your argument here basically amounts to "it's scummy that she lynched a town player", which... what?, and you're making this argument directly after conceding earlier that in no way would I have needed to bus in order to navigate this game as scum.

you're not genuinely attempting to read or sort me. you've decided that "she bussed Aris D1" would be a good somewhat-believable angle for feigning a read on me and are bending over backwards inventing reasons to justify it, rather than attempting to read my play.

Confession: It crossed my mind that you thought you could get an easy ducks mislynch after the Ari lynch flipped scum.
The details are missing from his line of reasoning, but I thought the gist of what he was saying was reasonable.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm about to go to bed so here's my tiered reads list.

{pieguyn, Dwlee99, Nahdia, kraska77}
{Something_Smart, Zulfy}
{Bellaphant}
{Katsuki}
{TehBrawlGuy}

[Something_Smart]

I was going to take the time today to make a case on pie, but with RC's replace out it seems the odds are one to zero against her being lynched in the near future.
I can still make the case if you guys (primarily TTH) want, but I'd rather look again at the TBG/Katsuki/Zulfy slots if my work would be pointless anyway.

@kraska: Are you referring to the cryptic stuff I said about TBG right after I replaced in? If so, then that was related to how he called beeboy's post a townslip while maintaining that Dwlee could be scum.

[TellTaleHeart]

I was going to take the time today to make a case on pie, but with RC's replace out it seems the odds are one to zero against her being lynched in the near future.

You would be correct in that assessment.

[pieguyn]

I was going to take the time today to make a case on pie, but with RC's replace out it seems the odds are one to zero against her being lynched in the near future.
I can still make the case if you guys (primarily TTH) want, but I'd rather look again at the TBG/Katsuki/Zulfy slots if my work would be pointless anyway.

here's a question. don't go off about anything irrelevant, just answer the question directly.

why have you not attempted to explain or talk about any of your reasoning for scum reading me? I don't mean things like telling people (TBG) their town reads on me are wrong, I mean things like actually quoting my posts and saying "this is more likely to come from scum because X".

[Something_Smart]

Because I didn't want to take the time to do so and because I didn't see it as necessary yet.

[pieguyn]

and because I didn't see it as necessary yet.

under what circumstances would you have seen it as necessary?

[Something_Smart]

Once some major wagons began to develop, aka, yesterday.
Hence post 1411.

[kraska77]

I have katsuki as scum #2
So I'm crossing out pie and tgb as scum #3 candidates because they're sticking out their necks too much in a way that doesn't make sense for scum survivalism...the situation here is we have a confirmed town, another player who is townread by all (nahdia), a protective role bc 0 NKs on night 1 and 1 scum already down. If katsuki is scum then whoever their scum buddy is...i dont expect them to be playing like pie and tgb. Plus if katsuki and tgb were a team, I think katsuki would have painted themselves blue (bc of tgb's Miller claim).
The way tgb is playing is too obv scum to be scum imo
I will only reconsider my read on him if katsuki flips town
So scum pool for me(at this stage, pre katsuki flip) is: katsuki, Bellaphant and zulfy
Scum katsuki makes most sense with one of Bella and zulfy as partners

[kraska77]

I was going to take the time today to make a case on pie, but with RC's replace out it seems the odds are one to zero against her being lynched in the near future.
I can still make the case if you guys (primarily TTH) want, but I'd rather look again at the TBG/Katsuki/Zulfy slots if my work would be pointless anyway.

@kraska: Are you referring to the cryptic stuff I said about TBG right after I replaced in? If so, then that was related to how he called beeboy's post a townslip while maintaining that Dwlee could be scum.

Oh I thought it was related to why his predecessor didn't immediately claim Miller

[Something_Smart]

He didn't have a predecessor.
And who's your scum #1?

[pieguyn]

Once some major wagons began to develop, aka, yesterday.
Hence post 1411.

with the gamestate the way it was, how were you expecting to get a wagon on me going without making the case first, or otherwise putting serious effort into convincing a bunch of people of me being scum?

you clearly intended to lynch me, but without doing something to that effect, it would have been impossible to even get a wagon on me past like 2 votes (you and RC). I think that's a lot of my issue here since this is the major reason I don't understand how you approached this.

[kraska77]

Holy shit lol
Why do I have him as hiplop replacement in my head? ( i just realised I'm hiplop's replacement :') )And the time line is all messed up in my head, the way i remember it is he showed up midway through day 1 :')
I promise to stop writing crap from memory from now on because my memory is unreliable

[Something_Smart]

@kraska: you're hiplop, lol

@pie: tbh I kinda expected more people to sheep RC. So when I saw that wasn't happening (and other wagons were building up instead), I was going to make a case on you.

[kraska77]

Umm yeah not reading games while mildly inebriated next time
Lol

[kraska77]

He didn't have a predecessor.
And who's your scum #1?

I meant #2 and 3 as in other than ari lol