Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

If you are scum Bernie looks bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

So thinking about it NM inactivity might be NAI? This isn't anywhere near solid fyi

[Gustavo]

My experience with Nm is he’s useless and never actually plays the game. He literally does nothing to help town

[Shoshin]

Mind telling the class how none of what I've been doing is scumhunting?

I don't think there's much chance of convincing you that you're scum, so not sure what you're hoping to achieve here.

[Gamma Emerald]

Mind telling the class how none of what I've been doing is scumhunting?

I don't think there's much chance of convincing you that you're scum, so not sure what you're hoping to achieve here.

Convincing me that you're not manufacturing a crock of bullshit to mislynch me?

[Shoshin]

Mind telling the class how none of what I've been doing is scumhunting?

I don't think there's much chance of convincing you that you're scum, so not sure what you're hoping to achieve here.

Convincing me that you're not manufacturing a crock of bullshit to mislynch me?

That should be apparent from my posting. If I'm wrong about you, then where did I go wrong with my townreads?

[Gamma Emerald]

Mind telling the class how none of what I've been doing is scumhunting?

I don't think there's much chance of convincing you that you're scum, so not sure what you're hoping to achieve here.

Convincing me that you're not manufacturing a crock of bullshit to mislynch me?

That should be apparent from my posting. If I'm wrong about you, then where did I go wrong with my townreads?

So you only have one scumread in me? Who is scum with me? Besides that rather than deflecting to your other reads, how about you justify your read on me?

[Momrangal]

Can you give a strength of this mysterious townread
Like how much should I sheep you

It's a town for today, best to look into him tomorrow. What I saw him do, is something I have seen him do as scum but, giving him the benfit of the doubt today in the off chance that he's town could mean we are given information tomorrow that will absolutely help the game state

[Nauci]

My experience with Nm is he’s useless and never actually plays the game. He literally does nothing to help town

How does he not get PLed every game

Wat

[Nauci]

Mind telling the class how none of what I've been doing is scumhunting?

I don't think there's much chance of convincing you that you're scum, so not sure what you're hoping to achieve here.

Convincing me that you're not manufacturing a crock of bullshit to mislynch me?

That should be apparent from my posting. If I'm wrong about you, then where did I go wrong with my townreads?

That was the weird thing

I've been pressuring Gamma since his first 5 posts but I didn't see much commentary from you on why he's scum until the post today

But there is a lot of evidence of how much you've been thinking about his slot, asking him questions and asking others questions about him. Not sure what alignment info I'd pull out of that but I don't have much insight into your thought process on any individual post from him

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay you have to admit that it's reasonable for me to question if your townread on her is worth its salt if the post was defending you, regardless of the rest of the context, right?

Irrelephant11/TW/whomever else was planning to hammer: can we wait to see if Math/NM respond to prods in time? Which is a minimum of 12 hours from now, I think

First question pings me a ton

Yeah definitely, as long as we leave a little time for potential claiming/wagon switching

Also my towntell on Gamma has not been affirmed or refuted by anything since. Still pretty sure it’ll happen or not happen soon tho

Also this disturbs me a bit: you have a towntell on me? You've never played with me!

[Nauci]

My experience with Nm is he’s useless and never actually plays the game. He literally does nothing to help town

I almost never want to PL but extreme inactivity and refusal to participate from a slot that only posts 2 words to prod Dodge makes the whole game so much harder to read that I want to. Like he's so anti town that it's made me question the scumread of Gamma I had for most of the game and if he's just going to be a source of this paranoia indefinitely even if he's not scum I can't abide it. The only reason I didn't already do this is because for some reason a lot of town were making "oh nm is always undeterringly useless and anti town" statements that discouraged voting there but I don't see why

VOTE: not_mafia

I do think gamma would give us more to read tomorrow than NM but literally everyone would

Not sure if nm flip would give us any info but that's just more of my frustration with the slot

[Nauci]

Okay you have to admit that it's reasonable for me to question if your townread on her is worth its salt if the post was defending you, regardless of the rest of the context, right?

Irrelephant11/TW/whomever else was planning to hammer: can we wait to see if Math/NM respond to prods in time? Which is a minimum of 12 hours from now, I think

First question pings me a ton

Yeah definitely, as long as we leave a little time for potential claiming/wagon switching

Also my towntell on Gamma has not been affirmed or refuted by anything since. Still pretty sure it’ll happen or not happen soon tho

Also this disturbs me a bit: you have a towntell on me? You've never played with me!

I think I know what he means and it's probably not a "town tell" type of thing

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
so my second game I checked wrt NM was 3-in-1 and in the first game at the very least he was pretty present, and he was town in all 3 games of 3-in-1. So I'm thinking he's scum here. the other game I checked, the earthbound game I modded, he was very active though flavor interest may very well have been the main reason, as he was very excited about it as I remember it.

[Gustavo]

My experience with Nm is he’s useless and never actually plays the game. He literally does nothing to help town

How does he not get PLed every game

Wat

Cause people rather lynch scum over PL somebody

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
so my second game I checked wrt NM was 3-in-1 and in the first game at the very least he was pretty present, and he was town in all 3 games of 3-in-1. So I'm thinking he's scum here. the other game I checked, the earthbound game I modded, he was very active though flavor interest may very well have been the main reason, as he was very excited about it as I remember it.

I’ve never played Earthbound

[Irrelephant11]

Idk about consistency but in the game I replaced into, Not_Mafia was already dead as cop. He was very helpful actually, but it was hard to read him before he died (once dead, though, his cop clear was super obvious in retrospect). His votes were also good. I think Shoshin is probably right that lynching Gamma has a good chance of sorting Not_Mafia. Policy lynching certainly seems like the wrong decision, anyway.

All that said, I’m not townreading the slot at this point

[Shoshin]

I'm not policy lynching NM, and I think that push is terrible from both Gamma and Nauci.

[Shoshin]

Hey Irrelephant, I don't know if you remember but NM was my strongest townread in that Newbie game before he died (like I was at 99% town). NM's readable and anyone suggesting otherwise is just wrong. And even if they think he's a policy lynch, they shouldn't be pushing his lynch today, you push policy at LYLO not D1.

[Nauci]

It's important to note that just because I think it'd be a fine lynch even if he's town, I don't think he's town. However, gamma hopping on this one hope of a counter wagon feels like potentially one more cop out from scum hunting, but at least he provided context where NM actually post. Hard to square my read of gamma with my read of the reads on gamma.

I'm okay lynching nm if I don't feel like the stuff I'm uncomfortable with on the gamma wagon is resolved, because I don't think anyone is going to drop a new case in time that's superior to what we've got.

I think Bernie and Mom aren't s/s but maybe also not t/t so I need to reread there

Irrelephant11/the worst now that he's back at -3 are you going to vote gamma

No more posts until I see either non contributors post or Skitter/Keyser can give me guidance; gosh I hope my strongest town reads aren't horribly wrong

PEdit:

Shoshin I saw people saying NM is readable if he posts, which makes sense. I've skimmed games where NM posts and I would agree he's readable then. But how does your view factor in when he's averaging 2-3 words a day?

Also wait what the hell I thought PLs basically only happened D1 because it's not much worse than the otherwise uninformed reads; when is policy lynching at LYLO ever a thing? Isn't it by definition the last thing you should do at LYLO because policy lynching means beneficial even if they were town? What?!???

Man that's

What?!?!?

[Shoshin]

I have lots of reasons to vote Gamma besides everyone else being more town.

For starters, he spent the majority of the day laying low and offering a couple safe reads on Key and Stun. Yes, he offered the occassional commentary (e.g. 318) but there's no in-depth analysis of alignments.

570 is a scummy I'm-not-town post; questioning Key here doesn't make much sense from a town perspective.

571 feels like a bullshit excuse for not having the excitement he would have had as town.

1109 and 1110 seem like someone who knows Gustavo is town rather than someone who's reading him genuinely. And the follow-up in 1140 feels opportunistic.

Then he starts playing the game a bit more actively since he's under pressure but keeps going after easy targets - eventually votes the worst, keeps talking about NM as null but now he's voting NM.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin I saw people saying NM is readable if he posts, which makes sense. I've skimmed games where NM posts and I would agree he's readable then. But how does your view factor in when he's averaging 2-3 words a day?

He's posting a usual amount for someone who is set on a Gamma lynch.

[Shoshin]

Also wait what the hell I thought PLs basically only happened D1 because it's not much worse than the otherwise uninformed reads; when is policy lynching at LYLO ever a thing? Isn't it by definition the last thing you should do at LYLO because policy lynching means beneficial even if they were town?

What's the purpose of a policy lynch? If it's to remove players you don't like, then sure, lynch on D1. But if it's to remove players who can't be read, the optimal strategy is lynching them at the last possible moment after all efforts to read them have failed.

I think towns are capable of consistently lynching scum on D1, so I disagree that PLs aren't much worse than lynching uninformed reads. I also think PLs should be reserved for cases where a player truly can't be read, not for cases where you dislike how a player plays.

[the worst]

A lot more engagement how? If I need to be more engaged, what the fuck do you want from me? If others need to be more engaged with me that's placing the burden of removing the scumread on other people which isn't fair to me because regardless of what I do if no one else does what you want "oh no one is engaging with him, SCUM!!!!"

Doing quick activity checks to determine if anyone could be scum due to the stall
Mathdino hasn't posted since posting here
Not_Mafia has DEFINITELY been active elsewhere, thinking this might actually be mafia
the worst has been active elsewhere, plus despite being bored at one point has not tried to engage since then, probably scum
Shoshin has been very active in one other game, this might be passable but still sketchy
VOTE: the worst
Still definitely want to keep talking with Gustavo but he's actually provided signs that he's not bsing so I don't like the vote as much, and given the compilation of things against the worst I think he's the best vote rn

VOTE: Gamma

scum with 1+ of the other people he's shaded in 1294.

UNVOTE:

L-2 for ^ this while I catch up proper

this doesn't make you look any better
this means you reacted to my vote with OMGUS before catching up

this makes me want to revote x(

[Nauci]

Also wait what the hell I thought PLs basically only happened D1 because it's not much worse than the otherwise uninformed reads; when is policy lynching at LYLO ever a thing? Isn't it by definition the last thing you should do at LYLO because policy lynching means beneficial even if they were town?

What's the purpose of a policy lynch? If it's to remove players you don't like, then sure, lynch on D1. But if it's to remove players who can't be read, the optimal strategy is lynching them at the last possible moment after all efforts to read them have failed.

I think towns are capable of consistently lynching scum on D1, so I disagree that PLs aren't much worse than lynching uninformed reads. I also think PLs should be reserved for cases where a player truly can't be read, not for cases where you dislike how a player plays.

D: D: D:

This runs basically counter to all mafia theory I've ever come across

I don't even know how to process that into my understanding of your thought processes