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[Paragon]

I need to bring back THE COUNCIL

I know Alore would have some fantastic advice for me.

[Paragon]

Let me know what you think of those last few posts from votato, Klicky.

[votato]

Looking forward to your version on KAAG.

that will probably have to wait until tomorrow. ideally we can at least discuss this part tho

[votato]

KAAG's iso is devoid of any attempts at scumhunting to an incredible extent actually. fluffier than eyestott's iso. fluffier than my butt even. and thats saying something...

Spoiler:

Basically, using the action last night in the way that votato did has no real town utility; his actions don't make sense if he's town. Meanwhile, they make a

ton

of sense as scum - claiming to have used it now instead of after his partner is lynched means he doesn't have to clear anyone as town. And he claimed he used the RB

after

Fwesnid claimed his guilty.

It's Pete/votato.

I've done the catching up I'm going to do. Read quite a bit, albeit skimmy and mainly as ISO. Not too many wall posts, made it easier.

That is also my current thoughts:

Pete/votato most likely.

Guess there's worth in further discussion, but can't see any point lynching outside Pete/Fwensid today, may as well be Pete.

This isn't just about the guilty claim: I found the interaction between Pete and Dolly after the "crumbing and definition of the word 'clear'" debacle to sound rather fake. Posts 1050 to 1060.

Dolly's neck was heading for the noose, and Pete found a comfortable middle-slot on the wagon. A thoroughly neccessary bus, is how I read it.

And makes zero sense that I can see for town!votato to RB Klick yesterday to

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

Hard to believe you actually thought Klick would be the NK.

although i think we were all on board with lynching pete due to the guilty claim, the reasoning of "it may as well be Pete" is kinda trash.

Spoiler:

Fwesnid seems like town from his ISO. If DGB wasn't clear, he'd be my top town read based on days 1 and 2.

I see Pete/Klick as at least plausible. I doubted it from the Dolly/Klick interaction on D2 but it could be scum theatre.

Klick, if this is coming from scum!Pete, what should I make of it?

So the 3-man is probably going to be KA, klick and votato, and I choose klick all day long.

fwesnid is town "because of ISO." not any actual posts, interactions, or reads. just a really cheap townread on a scumbuddy that most people townread.

Spoiler:

It's hard to believe Fwesnid, who I TR very strongly, has faked his report before he knew what my predecessor did last night. Therefore I suspect it's genuine. If I'm wrong and you do flip town Pete, I will re-read every word you wrote, as you suggest, with that fact in mind.

Love to hear now from the others. DGB in particular, as she seemed to scum read Klick on D2. And is clear.

Nobody has doubts on Paragon?

this post is incredible. "believe this guy because i trust him! also im gonna promise to read your iso but then not follow up because gamesolving is for peasant townsfolk. oh and btw lemme throw some quick shade at paragon to keep people paranoid.

Spoiler:

Klick is plausibly scum. However, the first thing I did after replacing was read a Blurry/Klick + Dolly ISO and their interactions on D3 didn't make me think theatre. Although, I've been fooled by theatre before.

votato: reaction to D1 hammer feels fake, his role claim worries me (what's with saying "x-shot...i'll reveal x if asked"?), his usage of his role with no discussion worries me, his lack of reasons why he used it on Klick worries me. A lot of things have to happen for RB'ing Klick last night to be a good idea, including winning a coin flip about which scum submits the NK. He's been on-site since then but not discussing it with us.

I saw you say he sounds newbie. I think you're right, but that doesn't make him town.

Paragon can be town today, maybe not tomorrow. Fwesnid will be obvious once Pete flips. I know I'm voting Pete today, so may as well at this point.

VOTE: Pickaxe Pete

some waffling, but no real analysis or attempt at gamesolving

Spoiler:

Of course he should lol.

The audacity of faking a guilty, having played well, and then trying to blame it on misreading mod communication.

There's no move scum won't try, eh?

well my scumbuddy is out, but id better distance to make sure no one suspects me. we all knew fwesnid was scum, this seems a bit forced.

Spoiler:

That won't be why your scum team loses.

To the two townies:

I'm done for the day. I think I know his partner, but discussing it just makes my watch even less useful.

I only replaced in a few pages back, so I'm not as invested as you guys presumably are.

He faked a guilty. We lynched on it. Is there more you need to consider?

am i gonna offer reads, reasoning, or helpful commentary to anyone? nope! just gonna continue to fluffpost and hope no one notices.

[votato]

i think thats enough effort for one night. i may attempt some VCA tomorrow, but maybe that would be better coming from an IC?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

^This though

I just don't get what this "effort post" will show, it's why I want to see it so much.

KAAG, you shouldn't stop posting just because it looks like we're lynching votato.

I'm happy to answer questions but I haven't been asked any. I checked in repeatedly. I didn't think cluttering up the thread while you guys were doing good analysis on the past days was helpful.

I am happy to do the "he said this, well you said that" thing if it will help you, but I tend to find come D6 that all the evidence is in the past.

Tonally speaking, votato is a lot more towny than KAAG. Content and action-wise (before these last few posts)... it's a different story.

I don't find votato's tone to be even remotely towny, but I have the advantage of reading it knowing he is scum. My tone is as ever. I have no alts: every post I have ever made on this site is under this account so you can check it.

the effort post will show why i think i solved the game. it woulda been nicer yesterday, but for some reason we decided to put fwesnid at L-1 despite knowing that he'd likely self-hammer

Paragon, how long were we in twilight? How long did he have? It was over 48 hours. He was posting elsewhere.

You haven't aked me about it, but regarding votato's posts on me:

1) When I joined the game, fwesnid vs Pete was established, before my first post. votato hasn't quoted me probing Pete about his thoughts on votato's RB claim (because that's scum hunting and would hardly help his cause)

2) After fwesnid was outed, I asked as many questions and tried to get content as much as anyone else that day.

3) My result from last night coupled with votato's lie meant I caught the scum today. No more hunting to do.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I dont have my rb shot no

On you.

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

hmm sorry for disappearing. I do have an explanation, but now is not the time for me to give it. ask me again tomorrow. i need to go back and reread. i think i have an idea. UNVOTE: for now.

i still have my shot.

I used my rb in hopes of stopping the NK.

Explain.

1173 was a lie to deter scum from shooting me, which at the start of the day seemed pretty plausible. as the day progressed it became less likely, so i softed the lie with the "i have some info" post. thats why i didnt want to reveal it yesterday before deadline tho. now i safely have my shot to use going into lylo.

@Mod, minor thing: thread title hasn't been changed from Night 4.

Who did you use it on last night, then?

On you.

Votato: why did you say you used it on Klick specifically?

Ebwop: reaction test. Put that in the quote by accident

It doesn't have to require a lot of effort if you're town. The question is not a hard one.

the answer is a long one.

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

i blocked KAAG

His posts today, after we cross voted, should not, I think, be swaying you.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Holy commas batman! Sorry for my grammar.

[votato]

Spoiler:

These sorts of things shouldn't require a long explanation that can be fabricated with a large amount of time. If you're town, you had a thought process, and it doesn't take long to give it.

VOTE: votato

^This though

I just don't get what this "effort post" will show, it's why I want to see it so much.

KAAG, you shouldn't stop posting just because it looks like we're lynching votato.

I'm happy to answer questions but I haven't been asked any. I checked in repeatedly. I didn't think cluttering up the thread while you guys were doing good analysis on the past days was helpful.

I am happy to do the "he said this, well you said that" thing if it will help you, but I tend to find come D6 that all the evidence is in the past.

Tonally speaking, votato is a lot more towny than KAAG. Content and action-wise (before these last few posts)... it's a different story.

I don't find votato's tone to be even remotely towny, but I have the advantage of reading it knowing he is scum. My tone is as ever. I have no alts: every post I have ever made on this site is under this account so you can check it.

the effort post will show why i think i solved the game. it woulda been nicer yesterday, but for some reason we decided to put fwesnid at L-1 despite knowing that he'd likely self-hammer

Paragon, how long were we in twilight? How long did he have? It was over 48 hours. He was posting elsewhere.

You haven't aked me about it, but regarding votato's posts on me:

1) When I joined the game, fwesnid vs Pete was established, before my first post. votato hasn't quoted me probing Pete about his thoughts on votato's RB claim (because that's scum hunting and would hardly help his cause)

2) After fwesnid was outed, I asked as many questions and tried to get content as much as anyone else that day.

3) My result from last night coupled with votato's lie meant I caught the scum today. No more hunting to do.

1. the questions didnt come off to me as gamesolvey. they were easy simple questions that didnt advance the gamestate.
2) you pushed fwesnid, but the way you did it came off as insincere and more as distancing than condemnation or digging.
3) the fact that town!you would know im scum doesnt let you off the hook for not doing any scumhunting up until now. and you havent done anything to make the case for why the others should believe you. you're just coasting, relying on apathy and inactivity to result in people not re-evaluating.

speaking of, it would be great if we could get people together and hold a quorum before deadline...

[votato]

We really cant afford to fall victim to confirmatioj bias here. I ask that the ICs take some time to review at least my own and eyestott/kaags isos. Maybe the other scum too. At this point i think ive done my job here. I found scum and ive explained how i caught scum. If you decide to lynch me, so be it, but dont blame me when i flip town

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Nobody is faling victim to confirmation bias. You looked like scum on D1. And on D2. And on D3. And then on D4 you lied about your role usage because "I thought I'd be the NK":

Why did you think you were a good kill for scum, votato?

Weren't you working on the basis Goofball was confirmed, and Fwensid was likely town and a high priority - being a watcher?

Also, I just realised I haven't apologised to Alore yet. Sorry for not having more faith in you, I just didn't understand why someone who's townread would fake a guilty on someone who's not. But maybe it's because he thought he could get away with this mod communication thing he's entered today with. You will be avenged.

(Bold and colour added by me)

I have stood off to allow Klick and Paragon space to analyse without my adding clutter to the thread. They don't need me going "Oh good point, I agree" every time I do.

I don't believe much in the "he said/you said" approach to a MyLo/LyLo. They can read the thread and get the evidence just as well as either of us can.

The quote wall in post 1406 is all the hunting required, IMHO.

Your refusal to post your "effort post" in the 48 hour twilight is just the cherry on top of your scum icing.

[Klick]

UNVOTE:

Tonally speaking, votato is a lot more towny than KAAG. Content and action-wise (before these last few posts)... it's a different story.

This is where I'm at

[Klick]

I'm getting the same sort of feeling that I felt during D4, when the Pete vote just didn't feel quite right but I wouldn't let myself back down from it because all the evidence suggested that Pete had to be scum and Fwesnid wouldn't be lying.

[Klick]

A lot of the anti-town stuff that I have a problem with in votato's play are things that I genuinely think he could do as town. I'm not happy to admit that, but it's where I'm at.

[Klick]

When we pressured votato to post his case or otherwise do shit, he... proceeded to not do shit. He didn't scramble to do shit and try to save face. And when Fwesnid was faking a guilty and was caught scum on D5, votato decides to claim he still has his roleblock. Ignoring whether that's a valid town play... Is it a valid

scum

play? Because it both looks awful and forces him to pretend to have a night action.

[Klick]

Ughhhhhh but then why did votato target KAAG last night. If he targets me or Paragon he has a 50/50 shot of getting confirmed by KAAG (from votato!town's PoV where KAAG could easily be town last night). This was the one town action that had no chance of clearing votato and could also disrupt KAAG's action.

[Klick]

On the flipside, watching Paragon last night just makes sense from KAAG's point of view. Votato wasn't getting killed, and neither was I.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

I dont understand this "tone" stuff. I post how my mood is at the time, as both alignments. Half my posts are 5 minute windows when I'm supposed to be working. Like this one.

Like I said to Paragon, I have no alts. I have roughly 1,000 posts on site, split across alignments. Feel free to check.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Another 7 hour gap between my posts. I don't see what progress you guys are going to make with content produced today. Can you just read 1406 again?

There's being cautious and then there's taking too long and sowing doubt in your own heads. I thought all three of us realised yesterday that votato was scum. I am genuinely a little frustrated now, considering my first post with reads had votato as scum.

When I read you say votato sounds tonally town...it makes me wonder what on earth you are reading. He doesn't sound remotely town at any point. If anything, D1 and D2 are worse than the lies and reticence of D4/D5!

[votato]

i mean i agree that its really frustrating that we arent getting anything to work with from the people who have to make a decision. but at the same time, they need to carefully consider. it would be way more frustrating if they let you win just because they went with a scumread that came largely from me procrastinating and being disengaged. this isnt my scum meta. I now have two completed scumgames I can link. One was my very first scumgame, and I was kinda lost and then my entire team hardbussed me. In the second i was far more confident and led the town around by being very active. those two games are animals upick and micro 938: butterfly mafia. lately ive been getting a bit bored by towngames, so i've been far less active. if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out. its really frustrating to sit here helplessly while the clock winds down on us and apathy looks like its going to let us slowly drift to a scum win. engage with me!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Oh boy it looks like I'll be asleep during the times that most people are awake. How lovely.

I like eyestott and goofball for town so far. Not a fan of quasar so UNVOTE: whoever I was on and VOTE: quasar

thats a lot of reads for being so early in the game. quasar doesn't seem super duper serious about his, but atarashi seems a lot more serious. Also, seeing someone else post reads and then posting your own reads reads a bit like scum thinking that they need to do something to look like they're gamesolving. at the same time its page 4, so

I'm gonna give everyone a pass for now.

consider it noted.

...4 posts later:

a quick list of scummy things atarashi has done so far (other than completely spamming the thread with posts):

VOTE: votato

I rolled a 13-sided dice.

using the plural of "die" while clearly talking about only one.

Oooh add blurry onto the list of people to eventually pressure.

@mod: can you turn on my multiple votes superpower now? I wanna vote for two people at the same time.

wanting to pressure people but not stating a case, and having such a long scum list. There's been virtually 0 meaningful content to get reads from.

Add fwesnid to the list of potential scumboats too.

see above. credit for trying to get the game moving, but negative credit for the way youre going about doing it.

Oh boy it looks like I'll be asleep during the times that most people are awake. How lovely.

I like eyestott and goofball for town so far. Not a fan of quasar so UNVOTE: whoever I was on and VOTE: quasar

thats a lot of reads for being so early in the game. quasar doesn't seem super duper serious about his, but atarashi seems a lot more serious. Also, seeing someone else post reads and then posting your own reads reads a bit like scum thinking that they need to do something to look like they're gamesolving. at the same time its page 4, so I'm gonna give everyone a pass for now. consider it noted.

Dang you really don't want to be put in a townpile, do you? Fine, if you insist I'll take you back out of it.

I don't really care how you read me at this point. Unless you're reading me as a potential mate/romantic partner, and then color me interested (that goes for everyone btw). I'm still curious though why you're being so aggressive, and why you chose to post a read list immediately after quasar.

Actually, VOTE: Votato

I'm trying real hard to see how that post comes from a town-mindset and I'm drawing a blank.

How is it scummy to point out scummy behavior? You want pressure on people and have weak reasoning. It seems scummy to be so confident in your reads at this stage. And then there's your vote on me that seems pretty OMGUSsy. UNVOTE: . VOTE: atarashi

What a sensational reason to switch votes this one is:

fair enough, I'll join team blurry against the evil baddies of team gibus. UNVOTE: atarashi, since apparently that wasnt gonna go anywhere for now. VOTE: gibus

VOTE: QuantumQuasar

Iso is pathetic.

worse than any of the wagons so far. agreed.

UNVOTE: gibus or whatever my vote is being counted as being on... and VOTE: quantumquasar

Could this be a more opportunistic switch?

as it happens, i did pressure you. this whole saga is me asking you to explain yourself. but instead of explaining yourself you went ahead and started saying im scum. im not sure how you should get the game moving. but i dont think that saying you find x. y, z, and w scummy without reason is all that helpful. I feel like me pushing back against you did get us moving. and not just from RVS to RQS, but to actual content. Again though, I'll give you some of the credit, you were right there with me holding my hand. Why dont you take me out to dinner instead? Since you're calling me honey ill take it youre at least somewhat interested. I think posting reads is normally NAI, but i think when it happens on page 3/4, if one person posts reads and then another immediately starts following, it pings. I'm not expecting a confident read. thats why im surprised that you seem to be so confident. Maybe once you explain your initial reads itll all make sense.

You want to talk about fluff posting votato?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

i mean i agree that its really frustrating that we arent getting anything to work with from the people who have to make a decision. but at the same time, they need to carefully consider. it would be way more frustrating if they let you win just because they went with a scumread that came largely from me procrastinating and being disengaged. this isnt my scum meta. I now have two completed scumgames I can link. One was my very first scumgame, and I was kinda lost and then my entire team hardbussed me. In the second i was far more confident and led the town around by being very active. those two games are animals upick and micro 938: butterfly mafia. lately ive been getting a bit bored by towngames, so i've been far less active. if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out. its really frustrating to sit here helplessly while the clock winds down on us and apathy looks like its going to let us slowly drift to a scum win. engage with me!

"Letting" me win let's them win. It's win/win/win!

if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out.

It felt as if this post was directed at me! I *know* you're scum. Your claim to have RB'd me is contradicted entirely by my result.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing that happens today should make the slightest difference. D4 (your BS about your role) and D5 (your refusal to engage over your reasons for "roleblocking" (lol) Klick) are as damning as they should require.

[votato]

so you wait until day 6 to attempt any scumhunting, and then your "case" rests on my noobish attempts at getting the game out of RVS? I mean to be fair this was the third game i started i think, so i was super new at the time of those posts and I'll concede that it was not great play, but i do think my posting was consistent there... i talked about how people were overconfident and then made up bullshit cases arguing that people had bad grammar and were hitting on me. i was pretty clearly mostly kidding with 83. my votes after 83 werent great, but at the time i also didnt even fully understand the purpose of early day 1 wagons, so...

how about we compare my read progressions from those posts to now with your lack of any attempts at reads or progressions.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

On the flipside, watching Paragon last night just makes sense from KAAG's point of view. Votato wasn't getting killed, and neither was I.

If I had done anything else BUT watch Paragon, I'd need my head examining.

I'm very self-critical, but in this game, I think I've done everything right. That has (slightly annoyingly) left me in this situation of only having to react and wait for you two.

votato is scum. He hasn't even done a good job of hiding it. Every post of his oozes that scummy "hey guy's let's talk about this" vibe to draw out the game. I've been on that side. I've won games using it (see Newbie 1684).

But town toned? I don't think so...

so you wait until day 6 to attempt any scumhunting, and then your "case" rests on my noobish attempts at getting the game out of RVS? I mean to be fair this was the third game i started i think, so i was super new at the time of those posts and I'll concede that it was not great play, but i do think my posting was consistent there... i talked about how people were overconfident and then made up bullshit cases arguing that people had bad grammar and were hitting on me. i was pretty clearly mostly kidding with 83. my votes after 83 werent great, but at the time i also didnt even fully understand the purpose of early day 1 wagons, so...

how about we compare my read progressions from those posts to now with your lack of any attempts at reads or progressions.

Are you continuing to miss the point that I *know* you are scum? Your read progressions are all fake, what possible point is there to this?

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Obvtown
Me

Town
Blurry
Eyestott
Haruhi

Fwesnid

Null
Pete
Paragon

Scum
Dolly (based on flip)
Votato

DGB

I will admit I think one of the scum is wrong because I doubt they’re all on both wagons but idk which

This guy knew.