Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:06 pm
I think Pine has to give out fruit first as wellIn post 1397, PenguinPower wrote:Kill, Dann? That will have to wait until we eliminate someone.
I think Pine has to give out fruit first as wellIn post 1397, PenguinPower wrote:Kill, Dann? That will have to wait until we eliminate someone.
Huh. Good to know.In post 1394, Dannflor wrote:people get annoyed at me in real life because I tend to adjust my wants to fit the wants of othersIn post 1386, Bell wrote:I also noticed or think I noticed but maybe I'm misremembering that he seemed unusually responsive to criticism or would adjust his play after someone mentioned a scum tell. Kind of like watching someone adapt in real time to people's preferences.
it's a character flaw
although I'm somewhat trying to use mafia to get better at that + confrontation
I had to google this. :VIn post 1346, dramonic wrote:porque no los dos?
The quoted part sounds like defending Jake as town. You hard agree with it, but the tone from what you follow up with makes it sound like you're accusing them of at the very least being unhelpful town if not scum. So do you hard agree with the stance but have a different conclusion? Or do you think this is scum indicative?In post 1347, Hiraki wrote:I agree hard with this. He just keeps coming in, calling me and someone else, depending on the temperature I guess, scum and then going away. How do you honestly defend that slot? Because doing nothing isn't scummy? I've done this game before too. I don't get how I'm the one being called out for AtE when Jake is literally just coming in and moping about doing his witty ERP thing and then leaving.In post 1339, Testarossa wrote:I agree with Dann that the lack of survivalism speaks a bit in Jake's favour. He is basically just rolling over.
However I am still not seeing anything that is changing my mind here objectively. Even after the replacement the slot looks pretty self-concerned, asking questions that aren't really leading anywhere to and no real attempts at sorting people (besides maybe Mena?). Was kind of hoping for more here.
Multiple people have asked him for reasons why he thinks myself and others are scum. They're still not here. The above just proves that he has no intentions of going further than stating something.
In post 1357, Menalque wrote:u realise I was being entirely facetious when I wrote that, yes?In post 1342, Marashu wrote:See:
So besides the advantage of knowing whether we hit scum or not (and I do think there's a decent chance of this slot flipping scum), having a wagon to analyze, and NKs, because this is multiball if we can end the day before the scum teams have things sorted, doesn't that mean there's a better chance they hit the other team rather than town? I remember hearing that it's usually to town's benefit to have a shorter D1, and 2 of the 3 games where I lost as scum had D1 end early, if I recall correctly. I'd imagine that especially applies in multiball.In post 1219, Menalque wrote:
well like, ur alignment would show bro, so we'd know if you were town or scum
Saved me the trouble of needing to write out the obvious part of my answer and go on to the rest of my reasoning, though.In post 1358, Menalque wrote:I think it looks kinda of bad for mara that he's trying to use something I wrote that was fundamentally a joke/obviously a terrible reason to support his vote here
That's not an apology for absence. It's an apology for being wrong on too many counts. Like, I'd cite a post, and when I go back to defend my stance, re-reading the source came across as different from the first time, so I'd need to change my position. I had also not really assessed some slots (Umlaut/Bell, Gypyx, A50, Testarossa) so my reads being out of date was especially true for these slots. "Missing" is referring to accuracy in this post.In post 1369, Menalque wrote:I guess likeIn post 900, Marashu wrote:UNVOTE:
I've been missing too many points, and my reads are out of date. I'm going to give this game a thorough re-read in the morning and sort out where my head is at.
I think posts like this come from scum a lot. like they feel like they need to justify their absence a lot more than town normally do who like, if they have time to check in more typically use that time to do what sorting they can instead of just apologising
You're correct on the intent. I try to see if I'm being wrong by putting them in town shoes. In the case of Jake, I see no reason for him to be town if he doesn't act like town. Therefore, the next best thing to do is to see if he acts like a variant of town (not role variant, just 'personality' variant - at least somewhat of an expected value) that wouldn't normally act like town and if that makes sense. I'd like to think I'm a pretty good judge in that regard.In post 1407, Marashu wrote:The quoted part sounds like defending Jake as town. You hard agree with it, but the tone from what you follow up with makes it sound like you're accusing them of at the very least being unhelpful town if not scum. So do you hard agree with the stance but have a different conclusion? Or do you think this is scum indicative?
Outside of the weird middle quote, it's a better post than 90% of Mara's posts.In post 1408, Bell wrote:Kinda sorta extremely sad that marashu looked at the game and decided his post for the day should be that one.
You're going to need to prove a positive rather than waiting for someone to prove a negative when trying to eliminate someone
okIn post 1274, Dannflor wrote:Dramonic, Hiraki,
I think there's a good chance you're both town, at least one of you believes I might be town,
let's real talk.
I think you guys need to pull your heads out of your asses and realize that just because you haven't gotten along with Menalque in this game specifically doesn't mean he isn't town. And at this point refusing to reevaluate him is extremely anti-town.
First of all, it is extremely rare (particularly in the site's current meta) for scum to top post in a game. What's even rarer is for that top poster to have OVER DOUBLE the next poster's total post count. Menalque has more posts than Dramonic and Hiraki COMBINED. The last scum player I saw who could maintain that type of presence was RadiantCowbells.
But okay, you might say, Menalque has posted a lot of fluff. Or he's posting a lot because he's been caught since page 3 and he's flailing. Let's ignore his mild temper tantrum from the last few pages that he absolutely never throws as scum because all it accomplishes is destroying his own credibility. Let's ignore the fact that his frustration with the game reads extremely genuine and it's backed up by 300+ posts of earnest solving that no one in this game approaches. I say we should ignore it because even though the AtE here (not all AtE is scum) SHOULD be confirming Menalque is town to you, you're going to brush it off as "lul he's frustrated scum who got caught."
Why isn't he frustrated scum who just got caught? Consider the fact that he's continually tried to question both of you to get a better read on your alignments despite the fact that the majority of your responses have been "lul caught scum." Unless he thinks he can pocket you, he has very little reason to do this as scum versus primarily appealing to the crowd. But, even despite dramonic being like a brick wall to talk to, Menalque has evolved his scum read on dramonic from early in the game to a town read. That's not something that furthers his win condition as scum. Continuing to try to engage with you fruitlessly is also a hallmark of town desperation, not scum desperation. Neither of you carry the influence in this game that your confidence suggests, scum!Menalque does not need to be afraid of you or appease you in anyway. Menalque has consistently tried to get some kind of good faith engagement going with both of you.
The popular theory, from dramonic at least, I think is that Menalque and TH/Jake are teamed. I can tell you right now that giving up with a lot of AtE and exasperatingly voting Jake is not how scum busses. Just via the amount of posting Menalque has done this game you can tell he cares a lot. If he's scum and realizes his partner is going down, he's going to bus for cred. What he's doing now actively strips his credibility no matter what.
And then like, his focus hasn't even entirely been on you guys. Actually contrary to both of you, who seem to have very few reads... Hiraki is actually better in this regard, dramonic just seems to focus on his scum team. Menalque has from the start of the game tried to make sense of the entire player list. Go into his ISO and look specifically at his read trajectory on Gamma, try to step into his shoes for a moment and realize, wow, that's a towny trajectory that actually makes a lot of sense even if you don't agree with it. Even this late into D1, he's constantly returning to slots like Gypx or Marashu and reevaluating. Slots that have barely posted enough to be reevaluated. It's a level of effort that is A. not needed or optimal from scum!Menalque and B. just more likely to come from town earnestly wanting to solve the game.
I'm writing all of this because I think it's actually fairly probable that you could both be town. But I'm not sure. One of the major sticking points for me with both of your slots (more dramonic than you Hiraki, to be fair) is your continued insistence that Menalque is this open-wolf scum to the point that you seem to refuse to reevaluate at all. I'm not sure if it's scummy because I've seen far more frustrating plays from town before, but it sure as hell is anti-town.
It's exacerbated by the fact that your reads don't seem to have progressed in 40 pages. I don't get the sense you're really reading Menalque's post or absorbing new information and assimilating that with the reads you decided on page 10.
I don't know, just be a little transparent here? Talk to me? Even if you think I'm scum? Or both of us are scum?
When did I say that?In post 1401, Bell wrote:He said he would catch up in the game and he really isn't
In post 778, Dunnstral wrote:idk, feelin' kinda cute, might read the thread soonIn post 768, Bell wrote:@dunstral, what ya doin?
I don't see your vote on Jake.In post 1413, Dunnstral wrote:If we're not going to eliminate Jake after a vt claim then we shouldn't have asked him to claim at all. Eliminate teacher.
Are you new to MS, Dunn? /SarcasmIn post 1413, Dunnstral wrote:If we're not going to eliminate Jake after a vt claim then we shouldn't have asked him to claim at all. Eliminate teacher.