In post 1324, Dwlee99 wrote:To summarize to Mastina:
I got wagoned. A scum ability voted me (in vote count it shows up as dDroo with a bunch more o's). Wagon sort of faltered then picked back up. People eventually started wagoning robert/roden/guillo and now it seems people have landed on t3. At some point we also came to the conclusion that Gamma got his vote stolen (which I think might be what is powering Droo).
They definitely are. Like, of my D1 reads, they're basically the only read that I have fully full confidence on still being accurate.
Have read since my last post, but...this is all I've got so far.
Nice to see you're back, what is your opinion of the t# wagon?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:02 pm
by Roden
In post 1316, Lukewarm wrote:@Roden, looking at your scum games, did actually lessen my scum read on you.
However, I think you are pretty bad at meta.
Spoilering a wall, because this is really only for the benefit of Roden
Spoiler:
You talk with a tone like you have such an understanding of how I play, but then you say things that feels like you are comparing me to exactly our first newbie game. And only that game, but that game was quite different then this one, and there are plenty of other games I have been in
Your second naked vote on me in a row. And still no case.
Very
out of character for you.
What makes you says that is out of character for me?
Plenty of times before where I have seen a post I did not like, and just voted as town
But, then I think that as scum, I made a point of having a clear trajectory on my votes.
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In post 1131, Roden wrote:This was a weird unvote, I almost never see town!Luke back down on a read,
And here..
This post is with a tone of "I know how you play," but then says something that is just not even true
In post 1131, Roden wrote:Looking at your votes in general, you've been all over the place. I don't usually see that from you, you tend to latch onto hunches and reads even on Day 1.
And again, talking like this is something I would never do as town.
In open 815, my Day 1 votes were:
Child of Faries -> Johnny -> Prism -> Hectic -> Humaneatingmonkey -> Child of Faries -> Prism -> Skitter -> Humaneatingmonkey
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In post 1127, Roden wrote:because saying you "hate" a post doesn't mean much and gives you room to give whatever interpretation you want. Pretty sure town!you is more straightforward than that.
In post 1137, Roden wrote:Town!you doesn't wait for someone to ask you to explain very basic reads, you instead overexplain and push hard on everything you're thinking.
This one is egregiously bad, because, that is not even strictly true in the game I played with you
I was not aggressively pushing you and explaining my scum read on you, because you were not a particularly strong scum read, and I only go hard when I am confident. If you look back at what was originally said, was "Robert and Roden look worse this day phase" and then I was asked why that was. I answered the question.
My original vote on you was largely your own self vote, and the fact that it was still there after an extended period of time. I actually think you were teetering on breaking site rules
In post 886, Roden wrote:Nora I'd literally rather spite you and get us both voted out if you're going to go out of your way to throw this game for town. I want to go to the dead PT, see your confirmed alignment, and laugh as you crumble Day 3.
The second vote was that your case on me seemed so bad that it must be ingenuine (maybe Noraa had a point about me scum reading people who have bad scum reads on me) -- but I am coming around to the idea that you are trying to use meta, and doing so poorly
In post 1139, Roden wrote:did you not actually bother to meta me even though that's your absolute favorite thing to do as town?
Just like also, this is not true??
Do I use meta, yeah. Is it my favorite thing, no. I actively avoid doing meta dives on players until I feel like I must. I generally meta like 1 player per game I am in. I think I have actually done more meta homework this game then I have for any other game I have played in on site.
Even in that game with me and you where I pushed out T3, while that was a "meta read" it was not that I had done a meta dive on him, and more that I was comparing it to games that we had already been in together.
Gonna spoiler as well because everyone else has already moved on.
Spoiler:
First, of course you have to say my meta read on you is bad. There's no universe where you say it's good without scum claiming.
Second, I'm gonna tell you what I told Dwlee. There's a button that let's me see games a person has played in and it's getting annoying that you guys want to pretend it doesn't exist. I haven't just skimmed your ISOs either, I've read a couple of your games all the way through and you're a lot more consistent with your playstyle than you're letting on. When I say something like "you're reliant on logic and meta" it's because you've tunneled people so many times over things that don't add up to you.
In Newbie 2061 you tunneled multiple townies because of associatives, and then you fought Marci's battle for her with Marci vs Catboi because you were so certain it made no logical sense for Marci to be town. Catboi had to fight HARD to get you to listen to him because you were so resistant to hearing any other POV other than what made sense to you.
There was also Newbie 2060, which I'm not going to get into detail here because I don't want to fling shit, but you know why I'd bring that up here considering how that game went.
Point being that I've seen the context of your playstyle multiple times and it's a massive discredit to just say I'm bad meta'ing you when that wasn't what I was even scum reading you on. I'd said quite a few things weren't adding up and my meta read on you supported, not confirmed, what I was thinking.
What continues to be odd about all of this to me is that your read on me just won't settle at all. You go Day 1 defending me from AW, to scum reading me Day 2 because of my self-vote, to threatening to get me removed from the game by playing against wincon, to just settling on calling me a bad town player. If you're just unsure how to read me then fine, but it doesn't feel that way to me.
Claiming that I'm playing against wincon and "teetering on breaking site rules" especially feels odd because you could really only believe that if you KNOW I'm town. Scum can gambit with a self-vote, which you do say, but claiming I'm damn near about to break the rules does not make sense to say unless I'm conftown in your eyes.
Then there's you saying my meta read on you is bad. Why is that the conclusion you jump to instead of assuming I'm scum trying to shade you? This again just implies that you know I'm town.
If you could come to such a solid conclusion within a day, why were you so eager to mis-elim me instead of going after your scum reads? Can you see how this would make me uneasy about your alignment? Because according to players like AW, we shouldn't have this much nuance as town.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:04 pm
by Roden
Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q
That would require me to have more knowledge than I have.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:23 pm
by Angel Warriors
MASTINA
here is the scumcase against robert
In post 795, Angel Warriors wrote:Droo is absolutely 1000% a scum ability this game and the fact that it didn't hammer Robert yesterday points further in that direction.
Robert is all why me fry me and while, yes the wagon built up fast with alot of unexplained votes there are very important points that need to be brought up.
TITUS
the wagononics expert should absolutely look at this and make her own conclusions because I very much believe it'll help her habe some light shed on this game.
Robert is entirely focused on him being the wagon but d1.
T3 and kyuko were being wagoned early d1
Robert became the counter wagon TO kyuko.
The Robert wagon dismantled just as quickly as it built but they sat at L-1 long enough for the opportunistic hidden scum vote to quickly hammer him but it never happened.
As robert dismantled, the wagon quickly went back to kyuko.
The entire time, people were hyper aware of roberts wagon and the state of it, but the same thing wasn't given kyuko given guillotinas accidental hammer.
Its also important to note that nearly yhe entire time, Rosen never had Robert as a town read but felt the need to chainsaw his wagon, rather blatantly I might add, the entire time it was a thing.
In post 1119, Guillotina wrote:Im not voting T3. I want Dwlee or Robert as priority, if i cant get them then someone in the nulls. Take it or leave it. Good night
In post 305, Lukewarm wrote:post 301 is hella performative. Like, oh no, I am concerned that a scum read is voting with me. Checks his scum reads, and he has 6 people listed as scummier then the person in question. Even if you make the correction of moving RMH just bellow the null line, it is still a silly stance for town to take, and seems much more like scum trying to appear paranoid of their reads.
Sadly, no.
The question was not only asked, but also (badly) answered.
Theoretically, 305 could have been a distancing attempt by a teammate that noticed a misstep.
Not that I'm speculating that that's what happened, just why I can't give you credit for 305.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:30 pm
by Angel Warriors
Along with these two cases, both players in question are displaying caught for the wrong reasons.
We also have a DV that is very likely a scum role which voted Dweelee.
The debate around that is is Dweelee town, or is it scum wifom, considering the vote placed him at E3.
The scum DV is named DROOO and it remained on Dweelee very briefly and did not come back until recently when it was parked on Robert.
Notably it came back when House brought up his concerns with T3
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:39 pm
by Robert M Hunter
In post 1403, Roden wrote:Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q
To go with Occam's Razor, maybe it's just timing, like the scum isn't online to do it?
In post 712, Dwlee99 wrote:Also marashu is my gut third scum assuming {Roden, Robert} is correct here. Did not like that specific vote on me.
In post 722, Dwlee99 wrote:And here you ask if I would rather die than have Robert die like I even knew there was a Robert in the game. I thought Roden's name was Robert until I realized I should click the thing at the bottom and realized there was actually a player named Robert. I'm gonna answer no there even if I'm scum. Your question accomplishes nothing fmpov.
Dwlee, I think I'm almost done sorting you, but can you explain what happened here? You hero solved me with RMH when you claim you didn't even know he was in the game and thought he was me. There was only a 20 minute gap between 705 and 712 so I'm struggling to see this as a real solve.
In post 1403, Roden wrote:Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q
To go with Occam's Razor, maybe it's just timing, like the scum isn't online to do it?
So scum outed that they have a stolen vote, wasted it on vanity votes, then parked it on a dead wagon as they went AFK?
Just because someone can be competent scum sometimes doesn’t mean they will be all the time
And yeah my angleshoot is just “the scum vote steal happening at xyzzy times can be checked against when people are active to potentially deduce the user”
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:59 pm
by Dwlee99
In post 1409, Roden wrote:Dwlee, I think I'm almost done sorting you, but can you explain what happened here? You hero solved me with RMH when you claim you didn't even know he was in the game and thought he was me. There was only a 20 minute gap between 705 and 712 so I'm struggling to see this as a real solve.
I knew there was a Robert at that point. I meant I didn't know who he was until recently.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:00 pm
by T3
It's not really even a wagon. It's 3 loosely conmected votes.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:45 pm
by cyrus62
Done
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:48 pm
by cyrus62
So drooo is some evil invisible person we can't see that is willing to hammer people in f give in a chance is drooo not_mafia lol jk
In post 1403, Roden wrote:Unrelated but I cannot for the life of me figure out why scum hasn't removed the DROO vote yet.q
To go with Occam's Razor, maybe it's just timing, like the scum isn't online to do it?
So scum outed that they have a stolen vote, wasted it on vanity votes, then parked it on a dead wagon as they went AFK?
You can say I was trying to make sense out of nonsense.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:01 pm
by cyrus62
VOTE: dw I still don't trust you how you act the same way as scum as you do town is beyond me. House seems to be trying harder this time so he isn't in my Poe my Poe at this time looks like Robert t3, dw Titus, and gamma.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:04 pm
by T3
cyrus, you should post moreand I'll know your alignment and you'll be effectively iced.
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:04 pm
by Dwlee99
Cyrus will never townread me
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:06 pm
by cyrus62
@t3 why didn't you call me out on lurking
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:07 pm
by T3
You.... were lurking?
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:08 pm
by cyrus62
your just to good as scum FYI if I didn't like you I wouldn't pick on you @dw
