Mini 1538: POWERFUL WIZARDS (SpyreX Lives!)

[kanyeknowsbest]

linger i want you to explain to me exactly how supporting the 1v1 dichotomy makes me scum. i want you to breakdown your reasoning completely. pretend i dont know shit about mafia when you explain it to me.

[kanyeknowsbest]

i said im sorry tammy !!!!

[kanyeknowsbest]

linger can you also explain to me why you are convinced that tammy is town? i dont recall you explaining that read really

[Gammagooey]

read over a little bit last night but was mostly just being drunk and useless

kanye i still feel like i'd vote you over lngrr just because i don't think lngrr would state a town-read on fate after i got dayvigged and i guess his and your general play but really that's not a gigantic part of it right now

tammy im kind of just ignoring because everyone else thinks she looks town for the way she reacted to yesterday which doesn't seem wrong to be fair

gonna keep reading tonight but not a whole lot and then actually care about the game tomorrow

[Gammagooey]

i should be fate but yeah pretty sure my post is understandable anyway

[LnGrrrR]

linger i want you to explain to me exactly how supporting the 1v1 dichotomy makes me scum. i want you to breakdown your reasoning completely. pretend i dont know shit about mafia when you explain it to me.

I already talked about this, but subconsciously, you could have said that KNOWING that it was either you or Porkens. But from a gameplay standpoint, yeah, it doesn't help you a whole ton. I don't know how good you are as scum, but I have seen some scum people say things that, looking back, pointed to their alignment, even though it wasn't necessarily a tactical maneuver.

As far as Tammy being town, the paranoia feels real enough. Frankly, I need to feel that someone is town. I played in an end game once on MTGS that was me as town, a neutral SK, a true neutral, and two scum. All I did was bang my head against the wall until scum won. I need to have somebody I trust to bounce reads off of, and of the three of you left, Tammy feels the towniest. Plus she ended up waiting a good deal for the hammer vote, and if she knew you and Porkens were both town, then she's a heck of a good actor.

[Tammy]

Okay I'm back to thinking taht LnGrrrr is town. Needing someone to believe in as town is how I feel at endgame and need a touchstone. I mean sure he can *say* that but I also was thinking about his setup spec post. I was thinking that it could be scum complaining about the setup, but the spec was based on their being 3 scum so he had to have been trying to plant it early that he didn't know how many scum there are, and I'm not sure that it actually reads that way.

I don't even know if this is making sense; I haven't slept and my brain is shutting down on me.

I have some work to do today (and hopefully a nap to take!) so I'll get back to this in a bit.

[Gammagooey]

note before anything else- i feel that i should mention that because scum no killed we don't actually have to lynch before deadline today and i feel that letting it run out might actually be our best play here? mostly because i don't think anyone really has time to reread the entire game and talk about solid enough reads to be worth ending the game on it by tomorrow night given that we haven't really done it already

i finished rereading through the first 20 pages and the biggest thing to jump out at me was actually tammy's argument with tierce and tammy thinking that tierce wasn't actually suspicious of her. i can't help but think that she wouldn't have that same reaction as scum because she'd know it would be at least somewhat justified, and the the response to tierce saying that she towntelled (exact words were 'not enough') felt really town just for acknowledging that tierce was doing things that might actually be towntells. there is a little paranoid voice that's saying tammy could have said that and then gone on to immediately kill tierce so she wouldn't have to deal with the back and forth with her anymore but her posts after that are still fairly critical of tierce.

lngrrr the only things that I think he did in those pages that are likely to be telling for his alignment was the comments on fate probably being town which is pretty weak. i also don't think that he would have killed tierce though as the only scum left in the game when a mason gave a bigass reads list for people to go off of, people still thinking tierce might be scum, and tammy looking i think like a much better nightkill for scum there?

kanye i literally don't remember doing anything telling for his alignment in that chunk and all the dumb kill meta later i think is pretty garbage with the current assumption of only one more scum in the game, if kanye's the only scum left on day 1 it would make a lot of sense to do a few weird kills since he has to kill a lot of people to actually get to endgame.

i'm going to keep rereading tomorrow and probably not actually give a fuck about the deadline.

also @kanye- what made you think it was me/porkens at the beginning of yesterday? you said porkens was pretty town for his reaction to something the day before and from your perspective i don't really see why you'd rule out lngrr and me immediately.

[Gammagooey]

oh while im here and going over this in my head anyway

remember that day 1 i replaced in after the hammer on katsuki. this does not actually clear me but i do think i should bother talking about it since if anyone's been making some false assumptions about the game maybe i can break them and make them look at stuff a little differently or at least have people see what i'm thinking about easier and read me better.

thing 1-spy allows hypothetical actions to be placed beforehand in instant night games. this was in the back of my head when i was talking about porkens and the quicklynches- he was in star control 2 with me where the serial killer was V/LA for 2 game days of the game but spy had a list of kills he had wanted to make on the assumption that the days ended before he got back. so if fate sent in a hypothetical kill list based on people being alive then i could be scum or if seanald was a lurking scumfuck who submitted a possible kill list but never actually posted in thread (he wasn't but hypotheticals are nice for explaining things)

from my perspective it seems pretty unlikely that either fate decided to submit an early kill on the person he was pushing or that hypothetical seanald-scum would kill tierce over the other players in the game, especially before the actiondan vig-splosion-whateveritwas. it's perfectly fine if you think differently but i do want people to consider this when they're thinking about whether i'm likely to be scum in this game.

[Tammy]

I was thinking about the letting the deadline run out yesterday. The only thing that I worry about with that is that if noone else votes, then scum could at deadline just vote someone and then kill tonight for the win. Is this a stupid worry?

Anyway, I didn't get as much done as I had hoped to over the weekend, but I'll be around on and off tomorrow.

[kanyeknowsbest]

Okay I'm back to thinking taht LnGrrrr is town. Needing someone to believe in as town is how I feel at endgame and need a touchstone. I mean sure he can *say* that but I also was thinking about his setup spec post. I was thinking that it could be scum complaining about the setup, but the spec was based on their being 3 scum so he had to have been trying to plant it early that he didn't know how many scum there are, and I'm not sure that it actually reads that way.

I don't even know if this is making sense; I haven't slept and my brain is shutting down on me.

I have some work to do today (and hopefully a nap to take!) so I'll get back to this in a bit.

which setup spec post?

[kanyeknowsbest]

gamma, that porkens townread was based on his reaction to the plum dayshot. i admitted shortly after that it may have been a bit hasty of me, but i really started backing off of my read on him because of the way he seemed to push whatever was popular d2. he jumped on kagami with me, then backed off as soon as he saw it wasnt going anywhere and then jumped onto me when kagami started pushing that and again backed off to the easy ssk lynch when i wasnt going to go anywhere. the reason why i thought it was you + porkens d3 was the way you two seemed to be jockeying for position in the thread, laying groundwork for the eventual lynch you two would push that day. it read in a very subtle way that i would have expected a scum pair trying to feel the town out while looking town themselves to read like.

[kanyeknowsbest]

oh while im here and going over this in my head anyway

remember that day 1 i replaced in after the hammer on katsuki. this does not actually clear me but i do think i should bother talking about it since if anyone's been making some false assumptions about the game maybe i can break them and make them look at stuff a little differently or at least have people see what i'm thinking about easier and read me better.

thing 1-spy allows hypothetical actions to be placed beforehand in instant night games. this was in the back of my head when i was talking about porkens and the quicklynches- he was in star control 2 with me where the serial killer was V/LA for 2 game days of the game but spy had a list of kills he had wanted to make on the assumption that the days ended before he got back. so if fate sent in a hypothetical kill list based on people being alive then i could be scum or if seanald was a lurking scumfuck who submitted a possible kill list but never actually posted in thread (he wasn't but hypotheticals are nice for explaining things)

from my perspective it seems pretty unlikely that either fate decided to submit an early kill on the person he was pushing or that hypothetical seanald-scum would kill tierce over the other players in the game, especially before the actiondan vig-splosion-whateveritwas. it's perfectly fine if you think differently but i do want people to consider this when they're thinking about whether i'm likely to be scum in this game.

i think this is fairly irrelevant. fate seemed to give up posting sometime before the dayvig went through which indicates to me that he believed it to be real. suppose he had a dead weight partner i can see him setting up a series of scumkills and tierce is one that i could see him opting towards. heck even seanald could have seen the outcome of the dayvig and said "well i guess tierce needs to die then"

[kanyeknowsbest]

linger i want you to explain to me exactly how supporting the 1v1 dichotomy makes me scum. i want you to breakdown your reasoning completely. pretend i dont know shit about mafia when you explain it to me.

I already talked about this, but subconsciously, you could have said that KNOWING that it was either you or Porkens. But from a gameplay standpoint, yeah, it doesn't help you a whole ton. I don't know how good you are as scum, but I have seen some scum people say things that, looking back, pointed to their alignment, even though it wasn't necessarily a tactical maneuver.

i honestly do not understand this reasoning at all.

[Gammagooey]

oh plurality lynches

Vote: No lynch

one more person would need to vote it with me and then problem solved?

[kanyeknowsbest]

gamma can you explain the thought process that lead you to suggest that there might only be two scum total in the game?

[Gammagooey]

because in forum mafia 3 scum in 13 players is pretty damn powerful and town usually needs an investigative role and something else to actually have a chance at dealing with that. two masons with a kind-of sort-of bonus that's realistically more likely to get them killed earlier and take another town with them against 3 scum seemed a little off.

[LnGrrrR]

Kanye, sometimes people say true things unintentionally as scum.

[kanyeknowsbest]

no like i have no idea what your point is or what youre getting at. i originally suspected maybe that you were trying to go with "kanye supports false dichotomy to make lynch easy -> knew it was a false dichotomy -> is scum" which is faulty as fuck and ignores the surrounding environment but i dont think thats what youre trying to say. so really im just confused.

what true thing did scum me in this situation unintentionally say?

[kanyeknowsbest]

because in forum mafia 3 scum in 13 players is pretty damn powerful and town usually needs an investigative role and something else to actually have a chance at dealing with that. two masons with a kind-of sort-of bonus that's realistically more likely to get them killed earlier and take another town with them against 3 scum seemed a little off.

how familiar are you with mountainous setups?

[Gammagooey]

never actually played in one aside from maybe a few odd small face to face games, i thought i remembered the 12 player mountainous setup being discussed forever ago being fairly scumsided with random lynches but town just never being able to win the game when it's actually played

reason for saying that the setup was odd was more from experience with playing/reading 13-player games though and only two suicide masons being weird

also i feel like poking me about that when you probably think its possible for me to do it as either alignment just to see if i have some magical reason that it would of course make me do that as just town or scum is probably kind of mediocre questioning instead of actually asking me about why i thought things about certain players since i think that would be more relevant to my mindset/alignment

^sorry if the last sentence is weird im a bit drunk

[Gammagooey]

also if you'd like to remain suspicious of me for more than 6ish hours you should probably vote no lynch since if i were scum i could just wait for deadline and then change my vote at the literal last minute to kill someone with a plurality lynch to win the game with a kill

like i caaaaaan just be confirmed town or maybe but probably not dead tomorrow if you don't but from your perspective if you actually think i could be scum you should probably do that

[Tammy]

VOTE: no lynch

[kanyeknowsbest]

gamma, who is scum?

[kanyeknowsbest]

tammy please get back in here and post ty.