Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:30 am
Page 58 of 90
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:32 am
I think Reg could be scum yeah, but it's primarily based on association with CES which is why I have no interest in pursuing Reg right now.
It's also interesting that he has pretty much hard town read ika all game. Hard town reading both people I think are scum; I wonder what this could mean.
It's also interesting that he has pretty much hard town read ika all game. Hard town reading both people I think are scum; I wonder what this could mean.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:36 am
I'm pretty sure there's no more than one scum in CES/Reg
That's what I mean by stationary reads that bother me. I'm not sure how you still arrive at that one.
That's what I mean by stationary reads that bother me. I'm not sure how you still arrive at that one.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:38 am
Because nothing I have said as to why CES is scum has been countered?
I admit my scum read on Reg is weak, and I hate association based reads; but it is what it is. It makes a lot of sense for him to be scum with both CES and Ika. But, I need their scum flips first before I feel confident in lynching Reg.
Who do you think is scum in CES/Reg?
I admit my scum read on Reg is weak, and I hate association based reads; but it is what it is. It makes a lot of sense for him to be scum with both CES and Ika. But, I need their scum flips first before I feel confident in lynching Reg.
Who do you think is scum in CES/Reg?
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:41 am
I'm not even saying that I think either is scum. Just that if there is scum in CES/Reg, it's one scum and no more.
If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.
If I was to bank on one being scum, I'm actually more uneasy about Reg at this point to be honest.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:48 am
What makes you think one scum and no more?
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:51 am
They're positions and stances are too similar.
If they were both scum, I would expect their positions in this game to be more contrasting.
If they were both scum, I would expect their positions in this game to be more contrasting.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:51 am
Their positions*
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:55 am
I can see that. However, it's very important for scum not to get lynched in this set-up in particular.
Scum syncing up their reads makes much more sense to me to achieve this.
Scum syncing up their reads makes much more sense to me to achieve this.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:59 am
↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I can see that. However, it's very important for scum not to get lynched in this set-up in particular.
Scum syncing up their reads makes much more sense to me to achieve this.
To some degree that would make sense. Like syncing up on a lynch candidate. But not to the point where your play gets close to mirroring your buddy.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:46 pm
Ankamius-mix.
But okay, here's Ankamius's 1376. (Keep in mind that yet again, he was talking ABOUT me, without talking TO me at all!)
TL;DR: I strongly think that Ankamius is scum and he's trying to mislynch me because he thinks that I'm an easy mislynch towards their LyLo.
VOTE: Ankamius
________
As for others.
Spoiler:
But okay, here's Ankamius's 1376. (Keep in mind that yet again, he was talking ABOUT me, without talking TO me at all!)
Spoiler:
TL;DR: I strongly think that Ankamius is scum and he's trying to mislynch me because he thinks that I'm an easy mislynch towards their LyLo.
VOTE: Ankamius
________
As for others.
Zach – Probably town.
See my catch-up, I liked many of his posts and there were very few questionable things. His Day3 is giving me town-vibes too.BBT – Lean town.
What I find the most town-ish is his posting style. I've seen it a couple of times before. However, having checked Tammy's posts, she was suspecting him. I know that it's not a brutal tell but it's still there. As for the BBT/Ika interaction, I don't know what to think. See more at Ika!Regfan – Lean town.
His posts are similar to the town-Regfan I met once before. One of the few players I've interacted with, his questions seem to be genuine, even if he doesn't like the answers. (By the way, you may find some answers for certain things in my spoilers above.) I still find it strange that there were 2 or 3 players or so "gut-reading scum" him. Maybe I miss something here? Elk – Lean town???
He pointed out a couple of things I liked (eg. the early Ika-wagon, the Ika-BBT interaction, etc.), but having checked his ISO again I noticed that it's much emptier than I remembered. Antihero – Unsorted? Lean Town???
I'm not sold on his obv-town-ness at all. His posting style looks
like the same as I know, but he did just the same as Ankamius: posted his scumread on me because of my catch-up (...which was about halfway at that moment or so!!!) without giving any other reasons or trying to interact me at all!!!
I've been involved in a town-vs-town fight with Antihero before, but in that
case, he asked questions, made arguments, etc. ...in his "Antihero-way". But here, nothing similar has happened. He might be another player who looks for an easy lynch.Ika
– I think I posted plenty of scummy things about him. However, many of you says that he's town. During the Night an idea came into my mind how to find out whether my scumread is right or not, but, I need a couple of RL Days for that. I'll explain it then but I'm not allowed and unable to answer until then. CES – Lean scum?
(Regardless of Wgeurts.) The more I think about him the less confident I am about my scumread. The scummiest points are his late-Day1 and the fact that he was the counter-wagon to CD. (If Ankamius is scum, his unvote too.) But. There was that Gamestall I pointed out in my catch-up, not so long before the end of Day2. Second: he was among the very few players who started interacting with me. It's possible that a scum-CES might have found me an easy-lynch.Ankamius – Probably scum.
See the spoilers above!Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:46 pm
Not sure how much I like Elk the more I think about it. For all I said about how BBT has become a non presence, that's actually a lot more true of Elk.
Been writing Elk off as town but not sure I should be.
Been writing Elk off as town but not sure I should be.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:22 pm
hi Anen
Your first point is semantics. If you look at that entire post real closely, you'll see that my entire case up to that first post was that one point I brought up, which I went into more detail in with the second one. The only thing I withheld was the severity of the scumread I got from it, which isn't dissonant at all. I wanted to see Antihero's side because a) he probably read more of your wall than I did, and b) so that there's more info out there that everyone else can pick up on.
I assumed townbloc-busting because I've pretty blatantly been trying to bring me+Tammy+Antihero+ika(much later on) together as a unified group for a decent chunk of day 2. I'd mildly expect scum to at least throw a little bit of doubt onto it regardless of how strong it would actually be if it's all town, so having someone come in and start throwing suspicion on half of that group makes sense to me. Plus regarding the easy target thing, ika was the counterwagon day 1 and I was put in the PoE list of the day 1 townbloc, so it wouldn't have been very difficult to push either slot since the suspicion is already in the thread.
I already answered the CES-unvoting thing. Respond to that if you're going to continue this point.
RE: My case
1) You being vague is not the actual reason, it's the vague reads after what looks like a more thorough look into the game. I have a hard time seeing someone have only vague reads in a game that got so controversial so fast. It's bogus.
2) Just throwing shit onto the fire without actually rebutting it. I know Wisdom never gave a concrete reason, but ffs.
3) It might help to note that I never brought that up after the initial mention.
For the other list directly after it:
1) How does this matter?
2) Show your work and tell me how it's alignment relevant
RE: 1376
Yeah, here's the deal. Scum have to manufacture cases in order to get mislynches. When someone says something that's easy to attack, scum generally are more than happy to push it because it's easy. So when I say something that's easy to attack, scum are generally happier to push it than town. Good work on trying to spin it towards me attacking you for saying I'm not scumhunting, though.
1077 point: You're right, it doesn't reference it; it only half references it. The other reference is just spinning me into as scum pushing him as town. You still only focused on that part and completely ignored the rest of my post where I detail my other reads. Also, you mistaking my unvote for a vote was what I meant by being lazy.
1106 point: No, Cheery Dog didn't say anything similar thing at all. You said I was scumreading ika because there was a wagon. Cheery Dog was asking me why I was suddenly able to read ika at all. There's a very big difference between motivation behind a scumread and trying to figure out why I have a read.
Your responses to 139 and 390 are basically what I meant by overblowing my early posts. It's weird how you criticize this after you fail to address the 1077 point.
Your first point is semantics. If you look at that entire post real closely, you'll see that my entire case up to that first post was that one point I brought up, which I went into more detail in with the second one. The only thing I withheld was the severity of the scumread I got from it, which isn't dissonant at all. I wanted to see Antihero's side because a) he probably read more of your wall than I did, and b) so that there's more info out there that everyone else can pick up on.
I assumed townbloc-busting because I've pretty blatantly been trying to bring me+Tammy+Antihero+ika(much later on) together as a unified group for a decent chunk of day 2. I'd mildly expect scum to at least throw a little bit of doubt onto it regardless of how strong it would actually be if it's all town, so having someone come in and start throwing suspicion on half of that group makes sense to me. Plus regarding the easy target thing, ika was the counterwagon day 1 and I was put in the PoE list of the day 1 townbloc, so it wouldn't have been very difficult to push either slot since the suspicion is already in the thread.
I already answered the CES-unvoting thing. Respond to that if you're going to continue this point.
RE: My case
1) You being vague is not the actual reason, it's the vague reads after what looks like a more thorough look into the game. I have a hard time seeing someone have only vague reads in a game that got so controversial so fast. It's bogus.
2) Just throwing shit onto the fire without actually rebutting it. I know Wisdom never gave a concrete reason, but ffs.
3) It might help to note that I never brought that up after the initial mention.
For the other list directly after it:
1) How does this matter?
2) Show your work and tell me how it's alignment relevant
RE: 1376
Yeah, here's the deal. Scum have to manufacture cases in order to get mislynches. When someone says something that's easy to attack, scum generally are more than happy to push it because it's easy. So when I say something that's easy to attack, scum are generally happier to push it than town. Good work on trying to spin it towards me attacking you for saying I'm not scumhunting, though.
1077 point: You're right, it doesn't reference it; it only half references it. The other reference is just spinning me into as scum pushing him as town. You still only focused on that part and completely ignored the rest of my post where I detail my other reads. Also, you mistaking my unvote for a vote was what I meant by being lazy.
1106 point: No, Cheery Dog didn't say anything similar thing at all. You said I was scumreading ika because there was a wagon. Cheery Dog was asking me why I was suddenly able to read ika at all. There's a very big difference between motivation behind a scumread and trying to figure out why I have a read.
Your responses to 139 and 390 are basically what I meant by overblowing my early posts. It's weird how you criticize this after you fail to address the 1077 point.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:22 pm
Anen's basically just trying to spin my case against me. Lynch it with fire.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:23 pm
↑ Aneninen wrote:Antihero – Unsorted? Lean Town???I'm not sold on his obv-town-ness at all.His posting styleI've been involved in a town-vs-town fight with Antihero before, but inlookslike the same as I know, but he did just the same as Ankamius: posted his scumread on me because of my catch-up (...which was about halfway at that moment or so!!!) without giving any other reasons ortrying to interact me at all!!!thatcase, he asked questions, made arguments, etc. ...in his "Antihero-way". But here, nothing similar has happened. He might be another player who looks for an easy lynch.
wahahahahahahahaha
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:09 pm
↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Hey Ika, can I guess why you killed Tammy?
Can I also guess why Regfan is still alive?
sure but any answer you think of is wrong due to the fact id didnt.
heck if you want i could fabricate a reason why i would and why it would 100% fit a case on me. like if you really want to knwo something i had this parnoia moment at work during night phase that the scum team was tammy/zech/??? at one point
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:41 pm
My plan Today firstly is to take a closer look at every one of {BlueBloodedToffee, theelkspeaks, Aneninen, Ankamius}. BBT's continued suspicion of ika certainly doesn't reflect well on him.
↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Well, I mean, why would I reevaluate my scum reads when I have no reason to do so?
Because a lot has happened since you started pushing me for not fully posting my progression on Aeronaut in the thread?
↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I mean, this just exemplifies perfectly what I am saying. I pushed for the CES lynch and yet I am a 'non presence'. I suspect this is more to do with our disagreement on reads and therefore you not paying much attention to what I am saying more than anything else because to say I'm a non presence is ridiculous.
You have been posting and pushing less since your vote on me (~2 posts per page after vs. ~4 posts per page before). If you think you've caught scum in me, then that's a weird pattern.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:04 pm
That actually makes sense.
I was thinking about something similar not so long ago. Because, I noticed this: if there are two scums and one of them is pushing me hard, the other one is usually soft-defending me. So, scums tend to "read" the game differently, maybe by instinct? However, I've never been thinking about whether the situation is the same with three or more scums alive.
↑ BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I can see that. However, it's very important for scum not to get lynched in this set-up in particular.
Scum syncing up their reads makes much more sense to me to achieve this.
This is a thing which may happen from this Day, but I don't think it would be true for Day1/Day2.
No matter how experienced a scumplayer is, everyone can make something silly or could get caught by a strong townie building up a very strong case. If this happens and the scum gets lynched, not only will a scum be out of the game but also the town will gain a lot of interactive tells! This would hurt scums even more badly in this particular Setup.
(Note to self: this thought has just given me an interesting idea... I should check it later!)
Yes.
On the other hand, Parrotting is a thing that scums often do. But for some reason it remains unnoticed many times. Eg. actually I did that in my very first scum game, I even pointed it out that I'd been parrotting Nero and as far as I can remember, even the almost perfect case against me (posted by Fonz, who replaced in later) didn't include this fact.
Spoiler: Ank-, Ank-, Ank-, Ankaaaamius!
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:30 pm
Aneninen, who do you think you would've voted for Yesterday if you'd been around near deadline?
Why are you spoiling your Ankamius stuff if you think he's scum?
Why are you spoiling your Ankamius stuff if you think he's scum?
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:58 pm
↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Aneninen, who do you think you would've voted for Yesterday if you'd been around near deadline?
Assuming the same vote movement, if I had been here I'd have hammered CheeryDog. He wasn't among my top scumreads, but lynching a player who may be scum is still better than a NoLynch. (Plus, I hardly arrived to the recent events at that point, to tell the truth, I still missed the last couple of pages. Catching up and getting reads meanwhile is a thing but it's much easier to get reads when you're active in a game.)
If I ignore the vote movement (eg. there would have been the same amount of votes on each of you), I'd have voted for you because I thought you were scummier. (Right now I don't think it's 100% obvious that you're scum because CD flipped town. You can find my doubts in one of my recent posts.)
And of course if anyone had summarized both cases, I could have weighted up both possibilities. The same would have happened if I had more time.
Because of the length of my post.
________
I have some questions too.
↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:
I'm not fully sure. Ank made it clear he thought she was the better kill yesterday. But the Cheery Dog townflip changed things significantly anyway. If you want to get me mislynched, killing Tammy lets people keep pushing the Regfan-CES nonsense (which can also let you delegitimize Regfan's reads at the same time).
And you posted this earlier:
↑ Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I've been assuming Regfan for most of the Day although Tammy getting nightkilled wouldn't surprise me too at the. They're both never getting lynched (Tammy looks more unlynchable right now but either a CheeryDogscumflip or me flipping town should put most Regfan suspicion to bed anyway), have solid reads and the ability to push through lynches. It's hard to say much more than that when I don't even know how this Day will end; I'd probably still guess Regfan currently.
So. Do you think Tammy got killed because the scums want you to get mislynched?
If you were scum, whom would you have killed?
And this goes for everyone: why was it obvious that Tammy would be killed (if you think it was obvious)? Why not Zach (who's townread by everyone, if I'm correct), Regfan (predicted by CES) or Antihero (townread by everyone but me)?
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:42 pm
Blah.
Phone post in, out for thr nihht but will get to this tomorrow after work.
Phone post in, out for thr nihht but will get to this tomorrow after work.
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:59 pm
That is the obvious surface level explanation, yes. But if you think Ank is scum, then you must also think that what you spoilered was *important*. I'm not really feeling a desire to push scum and get them lynched (either in this or in your comments about Yesterday's deadline situation).
Ika already asked me why I thought Tammy got nightkilled. It depends somewhat on Ank's alignment but certainly the option to paint Regfan as my buddy seems like a pretty solid reason to kill Tammy over Regfan (both in diminishing the impact of Regfan and being able to smear me).
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:42 am
1440 - I would guess Tammy was killed to make me look bad. I mean, outside of someone being widely town-read, the next best reason for scum to kill someone is to try and set someone else up. That fits me perfectly right? Scum!BBT would kill Tammy for sure.
I don't usually speculate on NK's but your question (to everyone else) was very subtly trying to set me up.
Also, and this one is very easy, Reg is still alive because he's scum. Or his reads are awful; prob scum though.
1441 - CES, why doesn't my sustained suspicion on ika reflect well on me? Are you saying I should not lynch/push/vote someone I think is scum just because nobody agrees with me? Or is it because he is your buddy and you don't want me pushing that line of thought?
Also, can you state the difference in my pursuit of ika as opposed to say, your pursuit of CD? I mean, you thought he was scum throughout D1 and D2 yet he flipped town, this doesn't reflect badly on you though, right?
Also, I disagree that a lot has happened. What has happened that should effect my reads on you and ika? Tell me.
You're explanation for your read progression on Aero was bullshit. I didn't buy it, I still don't buy it. The problem is, everyone else has and that's frustrating. It's also pretty clear now that CD was a counter-wagon to you.
I've had both my scum reads for some time, I have stated reasons why each are scum and there is nothing more I can do. I don't see anything to change my mind, only further reasons for why you're scum.
Is this shit actually serious? Do you know how frustrating it is to truly believe you have found scum and have nobody fucking listen? Like, my biggest town reads are generally not on the same wave length as me and I'm just getting pissed off with it.
Yeah, I'm becoming demotivated to play this fucking game. So what?
I don't usually speculate on NK's but your question (to everyone else) was very subtly trying to set me up.
Also, and this one is very easy, Reg is still alive because he's scum. Or his reads are awful; prob scum though.
1441 - CES, why doesn't my sustained suspicion on ika reflect well on me? Are you saying I should not lynch/push/vote someone I think is scum just because nobody agrees with me? Or is it because he is your buddy and you don't want me pushing that line of thought?
Also, can you state the difference in my pursuit of ika as opposed to say, your pursuit of CD? I mean, you thought he was scum throughout D1 and D2 yet he flipped town, this doesn't reflect badly on you though, right?
Also, I disagree that a lot has happened. What has happened that should effect my reads on you and ika? Tell me.
You're explanation for your read progression on Aero was bullshit. I didn't buy it, I still don't buy it. The problem is, everyone else has and that's frustrating. It's also pretty clear now that CD was a counter-wagon to you.
I've had both my scum reads for some time, I have stated reasons why each are scum and there is nothing more I can do. I don't see anything to change my mind, only further reasons for why you're scum.
You have been posting and pushing less since your vote on me (~2 posts per page after vs. ~4 posts per page before). If you think you've caught scum in me, then that's a weird pattern.
Is this shit actually serious? Do you know how frustrating it is to truly believe you have found scum and have nobody fucking listen? Like, my biggest town reads are generally not on the same wave length as me and I'm just getting pissed off with it.
Yeah, I'm becoming demotivated to play this fucking game. So what?
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:29 am
↑ Aneninen wrote:Antihero – Unsorted? Lean Town??? I'm not sold on his obv-town-ness at all. His posting style looks like the same as I know, but he did just the same as Ankamius: posted his scumread on me because of my catch-up (...which was about halfway at that moment or so!!!) without giving any other reasons or trying to interact me at all!!! I've been involved in a town-vs-town fight with Antihero before, but in that case, he asked questions, made arguments, etc. ...in his "Antihero-way". But here, nothing similar has happened. He might be another player who looks for an easy lynch.
>well, it's not like i was scumreading your slot before or anything. nope.
>"interaction" is the latest meaningless buzzword on MS that i hope dies a fiery death really soon.
>look. look at all the "easy" lynches i got my way on so far, anen.
VOTE: aneninen
lynch it.
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:30 am