Open 642 - The Woodshed - Game Over

[mhsmith0]

Well I guess we will have to see what everyone else has to say in twilight. Why did you think I was mafia again?

^Not a town reaction to thinking he was hammered.

For the record, I happen to know mhsmith is vulnerable to believing this sort of thing, but he did basically nothing after the "hammer".

No attempt at final reads.
No attempt at scumhunting.
No "I was town".
No gambit of "I was scum" like innocentvillager.
Just something weak, like this.

Another one. Why didn't I spam the thread with final reads, even if I had been fooled (and ftr, I was "fooled" in the micro game only for as much time it took me to re check the vote counts to verify)?

The reason was I was a tree, and was very likely to be around as a stump d3 if I'd been lynched. Why didn't I just say that? The reason is again obvious; enough people (ranger and m&m at least, maybe others) had already claimed vt (needlessly), and it was anti town to add my name to the list.

[mhsmith0]

But they're so complicated and tedious questions LOL

Here's the simple version.

You townread smith.
You learned what the setup is and then that negated your townread on smith.
Why?

The question answers itself.

1) dgb was protective, protected me last night, based her read on the resulting no kill, then backed off upon bothering to read the setup
2) dgb was pretending to be the protective (either for PR cover as town or for various potential reasons as wolf).

No other answer here is reasonable. Paying attention and exhibiting critical thinking makes it obvious, even without the other hints. No hindsight is needed. Part of my frustration with this town is the strange lack of these things, and I suppose this incident is just another example if it.

My way is the only town way of thinking is just all around bad play.

@titus: my way isn't the only way, but certain things are obvious to anyone paying attention. This was one of them.

[mhsmith0]

As far as the rest goes, a town this lazy probably has rot at the top, amongst those who should be captain. Kinda like lambert simnel game in that respect. I expect more from ranger than I've seen, but honestly I can't think of ANYONE here who has merited a meaningful town read (beyond the non ccd pr for mechanical reasons). But if you want to lynch another obvious town (which would be MY FIRST MISLYNCH EVER outside a turbo btw), then lol whoever here is town I guess.

[mhsmith0]

Btw I'm gonna more or less rule out a btd/alpaca team despite the fact that they both seem generically wolfy (lurker and active lurker - both were in my range of possible PR for a while for that reason, but now apparently there's no excuse), given the lack of game solving energy elsewhere.

[Titus]

Hey, if you're town, your attitude is part of the problem. If you dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as simpletons or lazy, no one wants to work with you. People process things in different ways.

DGB's mistake could have been she didn't understand how trees worked, throwing PR cover or something else entirely. We didn't know at the time.

So how's about treating us like we're equals and engaging reads rather than peacocking about how you outed our PR.

[Xkfyu]

I really just don't think that Smith is scum here.

[mhsmith0]

I really just don't think that Smith is scum here.

Awesome; why?

I'd really like people to substantiate reads on people as much as they can. This would be a helpful spot for it tbh.

[mhsmith0]

Hey, if you're town, your attitude is part of the problem. If you dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as simpletons or lazy, no one wants to work with you. People process things in different ways.

DGB's mistake could have been she didn't understand how trees worked, throwing PR cover or something else entirely. We didn't know at the time.

So how's about treating us like we're equals and engaging reads rather than peacocking about how you outed our PR.

^ part of why I think Titus is town. I think making this post (screw you for calling me dumb and/or lazy) is outside her wolf range barring good evidence to the contrary.

[mhsmith0]

That said, ranger referenced "flags" and I'm curious what those are.

[Xkfyu]

I really just don't think that Smith is scum here.

Awesome; why?

I'd really like people to substantiate reads on people as much as they can. This would be a helpful spot for it tbh.

It's really just the game state of the entire day. I mean, your posts don't come off as scummy to me, but they don't scream town to me either.

Basically, I'm never voting DGB, Panther, or Ranger in this game, which makes my lynch pool Alpaca, BTD, Titus, and you, and I'd say you have probably been the most townie out that bunch.

Not only that, but you have been the only real lynch candidate for today and the fact that your wagon consists mostly of the others in my lynch pool bothers me.

It's obviously not you and Titus, and I doubt it's you and BTD. So, unless Alpaca is suddenly bussing you, I see no scenario in which you're scum.

[Titus]

Ouch and then you go insulting my scumgame when I am widely regarded as one of the best scum players. At least you seem to be clueless.

Ranger just displayed a big red flag of being scum if you are town mhsmith. Since you're so much better than me, I bet you already know right?

[Xkfyu]

Hey, if you're town, your attitude is part of the problem. If you dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as simpletons or lazy, no one wants to work with you. People process things in different ways.

DGB's mistake could have been she didn't understand how trees worked, throwing PR cover or something else entirely. We didn't know at the time.

So how's about treating us like we're equals and engaging reads rather than peacocking about how you outed our PR.

^ part of why I think Titus is town. I think making this post (screw you for calling me dumb and/or lazy) is outside her wolf range barring good evidence to the contrary.

I'm fine with moving my vote to either BTD or Alpaca, but those two and Titus are the only ones I'm considering for today.

You won't have my support on anyone else.

[Titus]

I really just don't think that Smith is scum here.

Awesome; why?

I'd really like people to substantiate reads on people as much as they can. This would be a helpful spot for it tbh.

It's really just the game state of the entire day. I mean, your posts don't come off as scummy to me, but they don't scream town to me either.

Basically, I'm never voting DGB, Panther, or Ranger in this game, which makes my lynch pool Alpaca, BTD, Titus, and you, and I'd say you have probably been the most townie out that bunch.

Not only that, but you have been the only real lynch candidate for today and the fact that your wagon consists mostly of the others in my lynch pool bothers me.

It's obviously not you and Titus, and I doubt it's you and BTD. So, unless Alpaca is suddenly bussing you, I see no scenario in which you're scum.

Why are Panther and Ranger clear to you?

[Xkfyu]

Why are Panther and Ranger clear to you?

Because of their (or their predecessor's, in Panther's case) reaction to IV's scum claim at the end of D1.

Same with DGB (Shotty's reaction), even before her claim.

[Titus]

Why are Panther and Ranger clear to you?

Because of their (or their predecessor's, in Panther's case) reaction to IV's scum claim at the end of D1.

Same with DGB (Shotty's reaction), even before her claim.

Why?

[mhsmith0]

Ouch and then you go insulting my scumgame when I am widely regarded as one of the best scum players. At least you seem to be clueless.

Ranger just displayed a big red flag of being scum if you are town mhsmith. Since you're so much better than me, I bet you already know right?

I think you're a good wolf player (better than me, and I think I said that in dead/post game chat in both 1775 and 1782). I think that specific post, and the emotional state that underlies it, is difficult to make as a wolf, especially quickly. I think your wolf game success is more about being able to make reasonable sounding cases against townies than it is being able to effectively fake town perspective/emotions, though again my sample size is 2 and one f them you were barely in since it was a MYLO sub.

I don't think that's insulting at all; if it was I apologize for it.

[Xkfyu]

Why?

Kappy/Panther slot:

I recommend priming the person we talked about in post 3 of QT.

Trying to figure out who this is so firefighter knows who to protect. I don't think scum have daytalk, so it's someone they discussed pre game. which means they won't prime based on performance, just on meta and stuff like that. Who's someone IV has a history with?

I recommend priming the person we talked about in post 3 of QT.

Trying to figure out who this is so firefighter knows who to protect. I don't think scum have daytalk, so it's someone they discussed pre game. which means they won't prime based on performance, just on meta and stuff like that. Who's someone IV has a history with?

If anyone tells firefighter who to protect, their protection will be worthless as scum will just avoid priming them.

Also, perhaps IV just mentioned a name somewhere in post 3 of scumtalk and later (during the day) realised that they were a threat. As far as I know, primed and killed players can't post in the thread as stumps.

I'm not telling the firefighter who to protect. I'm giving them a clue so they can decide who to protect on their own.

Kappy tried to figure out who IV had a history with so the Firefighter would have a good idea who to protect. That's not a thought process that came from scum, after realizing that IV was fake claiming.


Ranger:

Ranger's early peg on me as scum was enough to fuck us over fast. How do you do it Ranger?

Well I told you.

Early-game content is my specialty.

I'll try and figure out your partner tomorrow, since there's no N1 possibility of death.

Celebratory tone at thinking she found scum mixed with a pinch of arrogance, which I've seen from a town Ranger who found scum.

But, I have to be completely honest here.

I lied.

I wasn't 100% sure you were scum at all.

I was actually less sure about you than I was on Music and Mail! Especially with your later posting.

I was kinda afraid I'd be getting lynched tomorrow, and then we'd be in D3 with no assured scum leads, my credibility shot, and nothing to go on.

Admittance of a lie. If she's scum here, knowing that IV is going to actually flip town, she doesn't admit that.


Shotty/DGB slot:

I didn't need anything else. That post alone is why I death tunneled you. You gave your self away man.

Again with the celebrating and braggin that all he needed was one post to "peg" IV.

This one, I'll admit, is probably the weakest of the bunch, but luckily DGB has claimed Firefighter, so it had to be genuine.

[Titus]

Those posts are not good for Ranger. I would have said no to Panther if I thought this was their only site. Other sites with Panther, I could see them reading and thinking legit scumclaim if I squint.

@mhsmith, You know why Ranger's proposition to lynch us back to back is bad if you're town and she's scum?

Ranger pushing IV for that comment as a scumclaim isn't good at all. Ranger would know better. Scumtopics on this site are not quick topics but private topics.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ranger just displayed a big red flag of being scum if you are town mhsmith.

Where? You have piqued my interest.

[Titus]

@DGB, if mhsmith is town, Ranger wants to lynch them. Ok. That happens.

We lynch Mhsmith. 7 alive.
Scum ignite you/other townie.
We lynch Me. 6 alive.
Scum do 3 burns.
That takes us to 3 alive with two scum.
If scum have 2 successful ignitions at that point, 2 mislynches is gg.

[Xkfyu]

Those posts are not good for Ranger. I would have said no to Panther if I thought this was their only site. Other sites with Panther, I could see them reading and thinking legit scumclaim if I squint.

@mhsmith, You know why Ranger's proposition to lynch us back to back is bad if you're town and she's scum?

Ranger pushing IV for that comment as a scumclaim isn't good at all. Ranger would know better. Scumtopics on this site are not quick topics but private topics.

I don't understand what you're saying. IV's scum claim was fake, to get reactions.

[Titus]

It should have been an obvious fake to anyone familiar with how scum topics work.

[mhsmith0]

Wrt Titus in more detail

A bit more on tone/emotion for the curious (and I'll admit that I AM NOT good at this, but like I said, some people are). Key paragraph blown up

I don't have time to adequately respond to that post but one thing I can say quickly is that when I'm talking about emotions, I'm specifically excluding anger. It's the easiest emotion to fake and it's one that is often not alignment-indicative even when it is genuine, unless it can be traced to an origin in something distinctly villagery.

Emotions like pride, paranoia, surprise, suspicion, etc, are more difficult to fake. Wolves often fail to even identify spots in which emotion should be present in their posting, and their efforts at actually displaying more complex emotions are often quite clumsy, for example by stating their supposed feelings rather than displaying them

.

But in the case of Cron, a lot of what was clearing for him was just the sheer depth and breadth of his reads and interactions. It's just hard to fake that much content so quickly and make it sound good. And few wolves are ever going to stalk other players' online statuses in order to catch lurkers.

If someone has evidence that Titus wolf game specifically includes being good at fake emotion, cool, but otherwise I struggle to see wolf!her making those specific posts in that spot.

[mhsmith0]

Those posts are not good for Ranger. I would have said no to Panther if I thought this was their only site. Other sites with Panther, I could see them reading and thinking legit scumclaim if I squint.

@mhsmith, You know why Ranger's proposition to lynch us back to back is bad if you're town and she's scum?

Ranger pushing IV for that comment as a scumclaim isn't good at all. Ranger would know better. Scumtopics on this site are not quick topics but private topics.

Yes I know why it's bad, as tomorow is PROBABLY at least MYLO. That's part of why I want to see ranger flesh out that read today, pre lynch. "There are flags" doesn't really cut it at this point.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: mhsmith

I am starting to think Ranger X is a decent possibility.