In post 78, mastina wrote:It's still not balanced.
Conditional deathproof traitor is literally the entirety of the scum's power.
The ENTIRETY of the scum's power, is a role that they know NOTHING about.
We knew there was a traitor.
We knew fuckall about the traitor. Not who they were, not how to recruit them, not even that we COULD recruit them.
My role REQUIRED me to die--and the deathproof traitor is ALSO incentivized to die. Two scum REQUIRED to die to use their roles. Did you not think about what it means for all but one scum, to be REQUIRED to eat a lynch/nightkill, in order for their roles to come into affect? Yes, one of said scum would survive said role coming into affect, but it's still them requiring to eat a death, when the scum want deaths to be on town players.
Deathproof scum being lynched, is worse than town being lynched.
Janitoring scum being lynched, is worse than town being lynched.
Deathproof scum being nightkilled, is worse than town being nightkilled.
Janitoring scum being nightkilled, is worse than town being nightkilled.
Scum were incentivized BY THEIR ROLES to eat lynch and/or vig and/or their own factional nightkill.
That is a lynch which isn't on a town player, or a vig that isn't on a town player, or a factional nightkill that isn't on a town player.
Then on top of that--town has the strongest possible town investigative in the game with laughable restrictions.
Being macho means fuckall, the role is still brokenly powerful. Scum killing it is a free shot, sure...
...IF they can get a shot off on it.
Because, again.
They are incentivized, as scum, to eat deaths, AS SCUM, that should be aimed at town.
And then on top of that--jailkeepers might not save the oracle if protecting the oracle, but can block the scum's nightkill.
Rolestoppers, if you go by Normal standards, can block the scum's nightkill--Macho means protective actions fail, but rolestopper isn't classified as a protective action, it is classified as a roleblocking action that roleblocks everyone else targeting the macho player.
That, not to mention the town roles on top of that.
Another protective who can protect anyone other than the macho player.
A neighborhood which was PAINFULLY obvious via ridiculously easy to deduce setup spec was a masonry instead of a neighborhood. (Anyone with half a brain could tell that all three members of the neighborhood were town, Xtoxm was dead on the money with his setup spec and reasoning for believing the members to be town because he nailed it through simple logic.) Like, the town thinking the members aren't town is pure stupidity on their parts to be frank.
There's whatever alimidia (apparently an investigative of some sort?) and Turkey (who is apparently not actually the traitor) are.
There's an IC.
There was never a realm scum really had a chance at winning this game from a role-design perspective. The town had a BOATLOAD of tools at their disposal. The scum had fuckall in terms of tools.
The scum lacked information, as the "informed" minority.
The scum lacked interaction with the mechanic the setup is based around, whereas the town roles were built and based around it.
The scum were incentivized to eat lynches/nightkills rather than to lynch town/nightkill town/have town be vigged, in order to utilize their roles.
The scum, simply put, didn't have any of the tools at their disposal, that make scum be scum.
Scum have the tools of being the informed minority (we lacked information) and being able to remove players from the game during the night (there were multiple killstopping roles in the game and the scum's own roles were MEANT TO DRAW KILLS).
The roles I mentioned in my post might not be the ones in the setup.
The sentiment behind my song stands.
Scum could never win this game even if Suji didn't vig two scum basically in a row--because the town has tools which give them far, far more information than what the scum have at their disposal, have multiple kill-denial methods, and the scum's normal tools weren't at their disposal.
Giving scum a conditional deathproof traitor, does no counterbalance the detrimental nature of the game to the scum.
Like, was popsofctown a bad nightkill?
No, a rolestopper in most games is a DAMN fucking good nightkill.
Was Xtoxm a bad nightkill?
No, a jailkeeper "neighbor"(read, mason) that upgrades the town's roles, in most games, is a DAMN fucking good nightkill.
Was Sujimichi a bad nightkill?
No, a Vig, in most games, is a DAMN fucking good nightkill.
But the scum have too fucking many players to nightkill, and not enough nights to kill them all, especially not when so many of those nightkills very easily could have not gone according to plan.
We can't nightkill them all, we can't reliably steer the vig into vigging them all, and we can't get the town to lynch them all.
The town had multiple roles capable of basically confirming themselves as town.
The town had multiple ways of PoEing the scum.
And the scum had one role that could MAYBE give them an edge, POSSIBLY, if used in a very specific way in a very narrow window.
I feel like my rant is fucking justified here.
I won't deny that Sujimichi is a god at vigging; that's undeniable. This isn't the first time Sujimichi has made clutch vigs.
And I won't deny that multiple town players have played well--Xtoxm did, Suji did, and Something_Smart's slot has done so the whole game.
So like--the town still has earned the win and scum did nothing to deserve the win and everything to deserve the loss on play.
But like.
That doesn't excuse the setup.
It is in no way even remotely close to balanced and is TREMENDOUSLY townsided.
whoops
