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[implosion]

Vote count 6.2

votato (1): KickAssAndGiggle
KickAssAndGiggle (1): votato

With 4 alive, it takes 3 votes to hammer.

Deadline is 3:00 PM PST on the 19th, in (expired on 2020-06-19 18:00:00).

[KickAssAndGiggle]

EBWOP: to be clear, all colouring/bolding in my post added by me to draw attention. Not trying to misrep.

PEdit: ninja'd by mod!!!

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Posting this again so its near a page top rather than right at the bottom:

Obvtown
Me

Town
Blurry
Eyestott
Haruhi

Fwesnid

Null
Pete
Paragon

Scum
Dolly (based on flip)
Votato

DGB

I will admit I think one of the scum is wrong because I doubt they’re all on both wagons but idk which

This guy knew.

[Klick]

Deadline is 3:00 PM PST on the 19th, in 10 days, 22 hours, 10 minutes.

This is plenty of time to make the right decision, and we're probably not even going to use all of it. Since I don't have the burden of having to try to look town, I'm going to take this at my own pace (and also not put this over real life duties).

[Paragon]

Preferably, I'd like to spend a good amount of time on this on the 12th/13th when my schedule will open up, and make a decision then. Sorry, I know people hate when lylos drag on for too long and it can get a little exhausting. I haven't caught up on everything yet.

[Paragon]

1420: Why is that vote switch opportunistic, KAAG? He moved from town to town. Quentin wasn't scumreading him.

[Paragon]

haha if i'd known you were hoctac in 938 id have killed you n1 probably.

Why?

[Paragon]

When we pressured votato to post his case or otherwise do shit, he... proceeded to not do shit. He didn't scramble to do shit and try to save face. And when Fwesnid was faking a guilty and was caught scum on D5, votato decides to claim he still has his roleblock. Ignoring whether that's a valid town play... Is it a valid

scum

play? Because it both looks awful and forces him to pretend to have a night action.

Honestly, he felt very much like defeated scum. He wasn't bothering to defend himself and seemed done with the game. I think town would've said

something

rather than lurk it out and ignore questions for 48 hours during twilight.

[Paragon]

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

What exactly did you mean here by "based on claims"? Did you already address that?

[Paragon]

Who did you use it on last night, then?

Why did you use it last night?

I think it's Pickaxe/votato.

Is it weird that I think this is towny though? If votato is scum, he's gonna formulate a fakeclaim of who he roleblocked and why in his head. He's gonna have the reasons ready and isn't just gonna make it up as he goes along. Klick asks him who he roleblocked and it takes him 10min to reply. Klick asks him why, and he completely disappears. That's actually completely illogical from a scum perspective.

While as town, I can see the cogs turning in his head there as he comes up with this dumb fakeclaim because he wants to survive with his shot going into LyLo, and he's not as worried about explaining himself to the follow-up question, and disappears as a result.

You get what I mean, Klicks?

[Paragon]

I dont have my rb shot no

Who did you use it on last night, then?

On you.

Why did you use it last night?

I think it's Pickaxe/votato.

Uhh, I meant to quote all of these. I wasn't just trying to call the IC's posts towny lol

[Klick]

Yeah, I get that. It doesn't add up with Fwesnid's actions either. Fwesnid clearly HAD a plan going into D4. Votato didn't.

[Paragon]

KAAG: Did you go back and reread all of Pete's posts?

[Paragon]

True. Strangely, I'm leaning KAAG now. The VCA is pretty useless btw. Guess that happens when there's few VCs and no scumwagons to look at. Should go back to see what happened with any pushes on votato on day 1, when Atarashi and Drew both scumread him.

[Paragon]

How his buddies reacted to those pushes I mean.

[votato]

haha if i'd known you were hoctac in 938 id have killed you n1 probably.

Why?

cuz i knew you from this game and from GnR and you played well plus the other players seemed to think you knew what you were doing. As newb scum, i was looking for people i knew to kill. thats why we picked the n1 kill we picked. i forget who it was, but i think someone who also played in GnR. as you saw in 938 my scum game is pretty basic and unrefined.

tl;dr: i think based on claims i have some idea about who scum is. i didnt learn much from the reaction test, no.

What exactly did you mean here by "based on claims"? Did you already address that?

yeah, the thing with the roleblocker. i thought it would be a strange coincidence that scum fake-claimed roleblocker before a townie claimed it, so it seemed like they were both fake-claims.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

1420: Why is that vote switch opportunistic, KAAG? He moved from town to town. Quentin wasn't scumreading him.

Scum love to move votes based on a strong townies read. Did he elaborate? Demonstrate? Or just purely sheep DGB?

KAAG: Did you go back and reread all of Pete's posts?

I read that entire set of pages (most of D4)...4 times? Maybe 5? Is there a follow up?

I have done everything I can to win this for us. When I read this:

True. Strangely, I'm leaning KAAG now.

My motivation for trying to help you get this right plummets.

It was obviously votato before the cross vote. It is obviously him now. The reasons you are giving for being swayed are wrong. You are also wrong about his tone. And about them having no plan.

THIS WAS THEIR PLAN

. Take advantage of Eyestott's nonsense (utterly nonsense, I agree) way of claiming this stupid role.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

Why are you ignoring notscience? By a mile the best player in this game.

Neither of you have even mentioned his analysis.

[Klick]

I'm happy to answer questions but I haven't been asked any. I checked in repeatedly. I didn't think cluttering up the thread while you guys were doing good analysis on the past days was helpful.

I am happy to do the "he said this, well you said that" thing if it will help you, but I tend to find come D6 that all the evidence is in the past.

You were right when you said this - I did feel a bit shamed out of considering you as scum at first today, but at this point it's grown old and you're not doing yourself any favors if you're town.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

What favours should I be doing? I am barely being asked direct questions. You and Paragon are basically chatting amongst yourselves, for some odd reason. It's one of the least effective approaches. Especially as you have now talked yourselves into thinking I'm more likely scum than him, for unfathomable reasons:

Who did you use it on last night, then?

Why did you use it last night?

I think it's Pickaxe/votato.

Is it weird that I think this is towny though? If votato is scum, he's gonna formulate a fakeclaim of who he roleblocked and why in his head. He's gonna have the reasons ready and isn't just gonna make it up as he goes along. Klick asks him who he roleblocked and it takes him 10min to reply. Klick asks him why, and he completely disappears. That's actually completely illogical from a scum perspective.

While as town, I can see the cogs turning in his head there as he comes up with this dumb fakeclaim because he wants to survive with his shot going into LyLo, and he's not as worried about explaining himself to the follow-up question, and disappears as a result.

You get what I mean, Klicks?

He is more likely to have disappeared and not answered...as town?

Nothing hold this guy (votato) back from posting. All over the site.

What do you want me to do? Sit back silently while you get it wrong? One thing's for sure, we aren't losing this due to me just waiting it out. I don't get what you see in my tone or whatever that makes you think I'm scum. All I see is a lot of WIFOM about votato's play "could" be town. Sure, a newbie can post like scum when they are town. They can take actions that look scummy when they are town. Absolutely. But is that the most likely thing?

[Klick]

I get very little from players in LyLo who have confbias. Town and scum act exactly the same when their objective is just to get the other person lynched.

[KickAssAndGiggle]

When you say bias...I do know he is scum. However, I fully agree with that: nothing that happens today after the cross vote is relevant.

I am pointing out that I think the conclusions you are drawing are wrong. I owe it the rest of town to do so.

[Klick]

KAAG do you have any town games where you made it to LyLo? I've gone looking and can't find any

[Paragon]

speaking of, it would be great if we could get people together and hold a quorum before deadline...

We really cant afford to fall victim to confirmatioj bias here. I ask that the ICs take some time to review at least my own and eyestott/kaags isos. Maybe the other scum too. At this point i think ive done my job here. I found scum and ive explained how i caught scum. If you decide to lynch me, so be it, but dont blame me when i flip town

i mean i agree that its really frustrating that we arent getting anything to work with from the people who have to make a decision. but at the same time, they need to carefully consider. it would be way more frustrating if they let you win just because they went with a scumread that came largely from me procrastinating and being disengaged. this isnt my scum meta. I now have two completed scumgames I can link. One was my very first scumgame, and I was kinda lost and then my entire team hardbussed me. In the second i was far more confident and led the town around by being very active. those two games are animals upick and micro 938: butterfly mafia. lately ive been getting a bit bored by towngames, so i've been far less active. if you really honestly think im scum, please come ask me questions and find out. its really frustrating to sit here helplessly while the clock winds down on us and apathy looks like its going to let us slowly drift to a scum win. engage with me!

I don't like the tone of these votato posts actually.

KAAG, I keep changing my mind, I looked back earlier and remembered how Fwensid was shading and angling for an eyestott lynch the other day. I agree with Klicks that it's hard to tell who's scum/town if both players are active during lylo. If one doesn't have the heart for it, it's usually scum-indicative though.

[Paragon]

At this point there is nothing other than gut and other subjective reads. Until we get a flip, slip, claim etc, all cases are wishy-washy. Doesn't mean everyone is wrong though.

I usually also start games trying to town read people. If I latch on too tightly to a scum read in early game, I risk getting all locked up in confbias.

This was Dolly's response to Atarashi and votato's 1v1. A very safe take.